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fish50
bernard


Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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Honesty
#7670659 - 11/23/07 01:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Its all we have.
I realise that the fact that millions of living things suffer Is of no consequence Is neither abhorant nor dispicable It just is It is nothing to noone and nothing to nothing It is not anything to do with spirituality or olde religion But still
Anger at the indifference of the universe is something I can "believe" in.
-------------------- --------------------------------------------- return is the happiest key on a keyboard delete and escape the most negative caps lock is the hungriest shift is a sly fucker
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Re: Honesty [Re: fish50]
#7670687 - 11/23/07 01:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i can agree with that. Any suffering opens the door to just as much pleasure. I am angry as well and have misplaced my angers direction.
Anger towards indifference, itself, is anger towards misunderstanding.
Anger towards life, for misunderstanding something, is anger towards something that had nothing to do with the existence of its misunderstanding.
To the ignorant mind, its mind is knowledgable.
Anger towards the person, is ignorant towards the idea that the person had nothing to do with creating its capacity to believe in something true.
AAAAAWWWWWWWW DDDOOOOOOOOOOO
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Honesty [Re: fish50]
#7670716 - 11/23/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anger at the indifference of the universe is something I can "believe" in.
I hear you but the question I have had to keep asking myself is,is the anger working for me? In the end it has not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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That is because you are not yet angry enough. The Universe is a little hard of hearing, well, more like distracted by the bazillion creatures all shouting, "Take care of me! No me! It's my turn!"
You just need to turn the anger volume up to maximum to get its attention.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Too old.:(
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Re: Honesty [Re: fish50]
#7670830 - 11/23/07 02:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Good post 
I found anger to be the only thing that gave me meaning when I was in physical pain. I got this overwhelming anger at myself and the Universe because I craved for the pain to go away, but of course it didn't. I could accept the pain, and it still didn't go away. I could no longer meditate, my breath could not properly reach my head because of a problem in my neck. I could not enjoy listening to music or even listen to someone talk, my head felt like a permanent migraine. My life sped into fast forward as I became stuck with incredibly shallow breath.
It is in times like that we are suppose to learn about ourselves, build our character. Well, I found out just how little patience I have for things that displease me. Waking up in the morning filled me with anger. Anger at all the things that my pain would get in the way of me enjoying that day. Bending down to tie my shoes and having my back crack and my muscles strain - anger. Anger at coming home and having nobody to talk to. Anger at not being able to enjoy music or dancing because it felt like I had a permanent migraine. Anger at the fact that accepting my anger and pain did not make it any better. Angry that there was no God who was looking out for me.
Angry at the soulless suburbs I live in, angry at nothing good being on TV. Angry at the bus taking so long. Angry because I was getting angry. Angry because people expected things of me, for me to be happy and outgoing when I was miserable instead of understanding. Angry because I expected things of myself, and angry because I expected more of the Universe. Angry because of how meaningless consumerism is when all you want to do is go sit or lie somewhere for just a couple of days to regroup but society does not stop for you. Angry because it was impossible to relax, and angry because people take anger at themselves so personally. Angry that people give what they get and don't give unconditionally, so I only got Anger back and this made me angry.
Angry because I did not feel like I could take care of myself even when I wasn't in pain and now I felt useless. Angry because all I wanted to do was get drunk and get high but these drugs just made me feel shittier. Angry because my life wasn't going anywhere, angry because I didn't have a girlfriend. Angry because I did not love, angry because my anger was not being put into any worthy goal. Anger because I didn't have the balls to commit suicide, angry because suicide would not provide any relief. Angry because I was too young to be in chronic pain, angry because I was too old to be full of so much angst. Angry because I didn't know what to do with myself, angry because all I knew was instant gratification. Angry because my anger wasn't making me feel good, angry because I wasn't suffering bad enough to start going crazy.
This anger was not producing anything beneficial, and I couldn't even channel it into something like exercise or artistic expression. Was I indulging? No, I was genuinely trying to live my life as best as I could, but I could not prevent myself from instantly reacting with anger towards many things. Does anger make someone a bad person? No, I think it just makes them a very angry person.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Quote:
Does anger make someone a bad person? No, I think it just makes them a very angry person.
I am going to use that in my Zen Fortune Cookie collection.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Does anyone else get this impression that spirituality is mostly about trying not to get angry (SERENITY NOW!)? This made me angry when I was angry because I held up this image of myself as a spiritual person. Then I decided that spirituality as I previously envisioned it was bullshit and that every human was "spiritual" in that they willed themselves to do things.
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fish50
bernard



Registered: 08/28/07
Posts: 16
Last seen: 13 years, 5 months
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I cant say I agree with or particularly understand anything in this thread, including my own post
-------------------- --------------------------------------------- return is the happiest key on a keyboard delete and escape the most negative caps lock is the hungriest shift is a sly fucker
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said: Good post 
I found anger to be the only thing that gave me meaning when I was in physical pain. I got this overwhelming anger at myself and the Universe because I craved for the pain to go away, but of course it didn't. I could accept the pain, and it still didn't go away. I could no longer meditate, my breath could not properly reach my head because of a problem in my neck. I could not enjoy listening to music or even listen to someone talk, my head felt like a permanent migraine. My life sped into fast forward as I became stuck with incredibly shallow breath.
It is in times like that we are suppose to learn about ourselves, build our character. Well, I found out just how little patience I have for things that displease me. Waking up in the morning filled me with anger. Anger at all the things that my pain would get in the way of me enjoying that day. Bending down to tie my shoes and having my back crack and my muscles strain - anger. Anger at coming home and having nobody to talk to. Anger at not being able to enjoy music or dancing because it felt like I had a permanent migraine. Anger at the fact that accepting my anger and pain did not make it any better. Angry that there was no God who was looking out for me.
Angry at the soulless suburbs I live in, angry at nothing good being on TV. Angry at the bus taking so long. Angry because I was getting angry. Angry because people expected things of me, for me to be happy and outgoing when I was miserable instead of understanding. Angry because I expected things of myself, and angry because I expected more of the Universe. Angry because of how meaningless consumerism is when all you want to do is go sit or lie somewhere for just a couple of days to regroup but society does not stop for you. Angry because it was impossible to relax, and angry because people take anger at themselves so personally. Angry that people give what they get and don't give unconditionally, so I only got Anger back and this made me angry.
Angry because I did not feel like I could take care of myself even when I wasn't in pain and now I felt useless. Angry because all I wanted to do was get drunk and get high but these drugs just made me feel shittier. Angry because my life wasn't going anywhere, angry because I didn't have a girlfriend. Angry because I did not love, angry because my anger was not being put into any worthy goal. Anger because I didn't have the balls to commit suicide, angry because suicide would not provide any relief. Angry because I was too young to be in chronic pain, angry because I was too old to be full of so much angst. Angry because I didn't know what to do with myself, angry because all I knew was instant gratification. Angry because my anger wasn't making me feel good, angry because I wasn't suffering bad enough to start going crazy.
This anger was not producing anything beneficial, and I couldn't even channel it into something like exercise or artistic expression. Was I indulging? No, I was genuinely trying to live my life as best as I could, but I could not prevent myself from instantly reacting with anger towards many things. Does anger make someone a bad person? No, I think it just makes them a very angry person.
Another great post. I know what you are talking about. I have been where you were often enough. My shit came from a very dysfunctional childhood. I created physical symptoms to distract myself from how I felt and I was angry and scared, frustrated and sad. I find I can still put myself in this position. For me anger intensified the pain and the problems. Mostly holding the anger in.
Anger is part of being human along with pain, pleasure and all the rest. When you are caught in chronic pain cycles it's hard to care a lick about living but as you said one doesn't have the guts for ending it.
I have found that learning to relax although almost impossible at times is the only way out. Having someone to talk to who understands, will not judge and cares goes a long way in helping us get some perspective on the situation. I am lucky that for me Veritas is that someone. It's especially hard to find someone at times because with pain we often feel shame (real men don't feel pain)and we tend to isolate ourselves while at the same time craving some real connection. I know how this goes and not much brings out my compassion more than someone going through this. Especially when they have the courage to talk about it, even a little.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Quote:
EternalCowabunga said:

Does anyone else get this impression that spirituality is mostly about trying not to get angry (SERENITY NOW!)? This made me angry when I was angry because I held up this image of myself as a spiritual person. Then I decided that spirituality as I previously envisioned it was bullshit and that every human was "spiritual" in that they willed themselves to do things.
You could be right. Maybe "spirituality" is also our resistance to the way life really is. Chaotic, temporary, and sometimes painful and scary. But let us not forget that life is also good at times.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
Posts: 7,152
Loc: Time and Space
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Aye aye
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