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Quote: This is interesting. You really think no pagan wars have been fought in the name of their gods? No, every single of of them was fought in the name of their gods.
There is definitely evidence. Look at rome. Caesar deified himself and that was the beginning of the roman empire. They tortured and tried to destroy christians, they persecuted Jews, and ran them out of their country.
Nebuchadnezzar forced his subjects to worship a graven image, and those who didn't were persecuted. That empire ruled over a large portion of the known world.
In babylon they were crushed under cruel dictatorship with deified king and queen that invaded a significant portion of the known world.
In Egypt there was also "deified" rulers who used their power against those who opposed them and strived to conquer.
These are all cases of polytheistic religions oppressing monotheistic ones, and in their eyes, it had more to do with patriotism than with religion. When Christians refused to bow to the emperor, it was not seen as blasphemy, but rather treason. It was only in the blending of politics and religion that intolerance came about. People were allowed to worship whatever other gods they wanted, as long as they paid tribute to the emperor.
No way! They oppressed their own people and every nation they conquered. That's not right at all. And you're wrong about the emperor worship. Christians would have gladly bowed before him as king. The bible teaches to honor the king. But he made himself more than that. That's what started the roman empire!
Time for some history.
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The multi billionaire power behind augustus Caius maecenas commissioned virgil to write the aenid to fashion rome into an imperial monarchy for which it's citizens would gladly sacrifice their lives.
The fasces, from which perhaps came the word fascism was an axe head whose handle is a bundle of rods tightly strapped together by a red sinew. It sybolizes the ordering of priestly functions into a single infallible sovereign, a autocrat who could require life and limb of his subjects. If the fasces was entwined with laurel like the pair on the wall of the us. house of representatives, it signifies caesarean imperial power. The romans called this infallible sovereign pontifix maximus "supreme bridge builder". No roman was called by this name until the title was given to julias caesar in 48 b.c. Todays pontifex maximus is pope benedict.
The land of the pyramids, egypt is where caesarian rome was inaugurated. By caesarian meaning the empire whose head commands not only affairs of state but those of religion as well. Caesarian rome officially began in alexandria egypt at the temple of jupiter, on the winter solstice- december 25- in the year 48 bc, when a fifty two year old priest of jupiter was declared to be jupiters incarnation, thus "son of god". His name was caius of the family of marias, caius maria. After deification, and occasionally before, caius maria was referred to as 'caesar" a cabalism formed by the letter c for caius attached to "aesar the etruscan word for "god". The god caius. (Suetonius, the first century biographer of the ceasars, suggest that the title was formed from prefixing aesar with the numeral c, meaning hundred, "god of the hundred", or hundreds).
According to scottish theologian alexander hislop, caesar consented to deification in order to inherit the huge kingdom of pergamum. Consisting of most of asia minor (present day turkey), pergamum was bequethed to the roman people in 133 bc by it's king attalus III. But there was a catch: the people of rome had to regard their leader as god. The pergamenian kings had begun ruling as god when the title of pontifex maximus fled the fall of babylon in 539 bc. In that eventful year, pesian invaders assasinated the babylonian king belshazzar. Just moments prior, belshazzar had seen his assasination prophesied by the famous handwriting on the wall: "Mene Mene Tekel Upharsin" ( The numberer is numbered"). Ruling as king by divine appointment, belshazzar had profaned the sacred vessels of the israelite temple. This was the unpardonable sin of blasphemy, for which god sent the persians to destroy him.
belshazzars priests were evidently spared. Rather than submit to the persian conquerers, they furtively gathered together all of portable treasures, entitlements, codes, inscriptions, astrology, sacred formulae, and insignia and fled with them northwesterly to pergamum. Since therulers of pergamum were already practicing babylonian religion, they were honored to receive the fugitive babylonian college and their great endowment.
Pergamum, the new residence of pontifex maximus , became a showplace for despotism. The neighboring greeks reflected it's sudden transformation with the myth of midas, the king whose tough turned everything to gold. babylonian ruled endowed pergamum with the worlds greatest medical complex, the asklepion, dedicated to the god of pharmacological healing, asklepios. pergamum became the most important humanist learning center, it's library housing more than 200,00 scrolls. (marc antony would later move these assets to alexandria as a gift to cleopatra. many of them eventually found their way from alexandria to the medici library in florence.)
When attalus III died in 133 b.c., he bequethed all his kingdom's babylonian granduer to the romans. But no emperor was deemed fit to receive it because the roman constitution had never suffered a man to be deified. The bequest lay unclaimed until 48 b.c., when caius maria caesar was declared god almighty in the serapion, alexandras temple of jupiter.
Deification entitled caesar now to assume the title pontifex maximus. To indicate hid infinitely holier status, he took the name "julius". The name was a claim of decent from julius ascanius, the legendary son of legendary aeneas, virgils maritime hero who sailed westward with a band of his trojan fellow-countrymen fleeing the sack of troy by greek marauders. Assisted by the whole heavenly network of mythic deities, aeneas led his followers to sacrifice their individuality for a glorius collective existence that would one day be called "rome".
aeneas was considered the offspring of a union between a human being, anchises, and jupiters wife venus. (when anchises boasted of his intercourse with the goddess, jupiter struck him blind with a thunderbolt. The aenid open with aeneas carrying blind old anchises out of troy on his shoulders.) By taking the name of aeneas' son julias and claiming descent from him as well, ceasar was able to trace his lineage back to the queen of heaven. The divine lineage supposedly flowed through his mother, maia, who was purported to have conceived him without losing her virginity. maia also claimed to have remained a virgin even in childbirth by having her son delivered from the side in a surgical operation that still bears ceasars name.
It is julius ascanius, grandson of venus and claimed anscestor of the original caesar, who inspired "annuit coeptis", the upper motto on the flip side of the great seal of the united states, the phrase which the u.s department of state interprets to mean " god hath favored this undertaking", was spoken by young julius ascanius in the ninth book of virgils aenid.
The scen is a battle ground. The trojans are outnumbered and fearful. Young julius ascanius takes a position in front of his shrinking countrymen. He looks up at an evil giant name remulus, king of the rutulus. remulus mocks the trojans for sending a boy to fight him. While the giant quakes with derisive laughter, julius slips an arrow onto his bowstring and cries towards the heavens:
"almighty jupiter, favor this rebellious undertaking (audacibus adnue coeptis)! each year, I shall bring back to thy temple gifts in my own hands, and place a white bulloock at thy alter!"
jupiter then hisses an arrow from the sky that strikes romulus in the head with such force that it passes clean through his temple. The trojans "raise a cheer and laugh aloud; their hearts rise towards the stars". apollo, from his throne of cloud, shouts the gnostic credo: " by striving so, men reach the stars, dear son of gods and sire of gods to come!"
A story that leaves no doubt as to the identity of the god who favoured the undertaking of the united states. It was a pagan deity, the god of julius ascanius, and not the god of the bible. Surely, if congress had wanted to show that the new nation was underwritten by God, it would have refered to the boy-downs-giant story told in the ot. Who doesn't know David and goliath? But establishing a national government directly on scriptural grounds was not the intent, of the founding fathers. Far more useful to them, and acceptable to the souls they knew would be populating america in good time, were the fabulous vanities of roman religion. These souls required the sacred icons of burgeoning humanity and uninhibited sexual energy, legends that inspired hotblooded heroism and patriotism. Consent to images of this character presumed obedience to the establishment of ancient, stoneheavy, well ordered pyramid hierarchy.
Less than four years after his deification, julius caesar was assasinated by an executive conspiracy. For another four years, civil war raged as two of the assasins brutus and cassius, struggled for control against ceasars immediate successor, a triumvirate comprised of lepidus, marcantony, and caesars adopted son, (his biological grand-nephew), caius octavian capias.
The triumvirate defeated the assassins only to war against each other. Poets lamented tha rome, against whom no sovereign enemy had ever prevailed, was being destroyed by the strength of her own sons.Obligations of every kind dissolved. Class fought against class. A fog of guilt and despair settled in. The poets yearned for escape beyond the worlds borders, to a place of innocence and peace, perhaps to a new order of things. In his book about rome revolution from republic to babylonian autocracy, oxford historian Ronald Syme writes:
" The darker the clouds, the more certain the dawn of redemption. On several theories of cosmic economy it was firmly believed that one world-epoch was passing, another was coming into being. The lore of the etruscans, the calculations of astrologers and the speculations of philosophers might conspire with some plausibility and discover in the comet that appeared after ceasars assassination the sign and herald of a new age. Vague aspirations and magical science were quickly adopted for purposes of propoganda by the rulers of this world. Already coins of the year 43 bc bear symbols of power, fertility, and the golden age."
The most influential and enduring celebration of golden age optimism was virgils prophetic sounding fourth eclogue. This work was addressed to one of virgils chief benefactors, caius asinius pollio, who was consul (roughly equivelent to the office of president) when caius octavian, antony and lepidus were reconciled in 40 bc by the peace of brindisi. Pollio, who represented octavian at the brindisi negotiatons, introduced virgil to caius maecenas, the media mogul of his day. He had risked his fortune supporting julius caesars rise to absolute dictatorship, and he would risk no less to put his caesars adopted son, caius octavian, in the same place. He scouted and subsidized the most talented artists, sculptors, and poets to create a totally new kind of communication. virgil developed a new "civic" literature whose pious rhetorical style gently guided public opinion toward accepting the rule of a deified babylonian autocrat. In writing the fourth eclogue , virgil borrowed heavily from the messianic verses of Isaiah, whose writings were freely accessable through the Jewish rabbis of rome:
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"Behold, a virgin shall concieve, and bear a son, and call his name 'God with us'...[Isaiah 7:14] For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is goven: and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful,Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince OF Peace." [9:6}
Six hundred years after Isaiah, virgil solemnly announced in the fourth eclogue that the prince of peace would be produced by the unrolling of a New World Order (or new order of the ages "novus ordo seclorum"):
" Now returns the golden age of saturn, now appears the immaculate virgin, now descends from heaven a divine nativity. O! Chaste lucina [goddess of maternity], speed the mothers pains, haste the glorious birth, and usher in the reign of they apollo. The counsulship, o pollio, shall lead this glorius advent, and the new world order [ novus order seclorum) shall then begin to roll. Thenceforth whatever vestige of original sin remains, shall be swept away from the earth forever, and the son of god shall be the prince of peace!"
The billionaire exploited the fourthe eclogue in the media as though it were a divine summons for caesars adopted son octavian to take the throne and begin sweeping the world free of sin. A fabulous resume of octavian was already going around- about how a thunderbolt had blasted the city wall of his birthplace, velitre, just prior to his birth. And about how the priests interpreted this to be jupiters way of saying the future ruler of the world would arise from the spot. And about how the senate, upon hearing this, had decreed that all male babies should be executed. And how octavian was saved by his mother, who pilfered the stone tablet on which the decree was engraved.
octavian's mother was atia of the family of marius, atia maria, a vestal virgin, niece of caius, the man who would become julius caesar. When octavian reached the age of twelve, great-uncle caius became his legal father through adoption. Three years later, in octavians fifteenth year, his adoptive father was deified as julius caesar, pontifex maximus. That's when the propogandists of maecenas got busy promoting the sons divine origins - and about how the child was born september 28, 63 bc in humble circumstances: the butlers pantry at his grandfathers mansion velitre. About how he had been conceived on december 25 by apollo, who came in serpent form and impregnated the virgin atia maria as she lay sleeping on the floor of the apoolonian temple. About how, just prior to the childs advent, the virgin maria had dreamed that her body was scattered to the stars and encompassed the universe. About how her husband, too , had dreamed that from within her shone the bright beams of the sin, which then "rose from between her thighs". About how the toddler octavians head was often being licked by golden solar flames.
The propaganda circulated the story of how the great astrologer theogenes, when told octavians birth sign (capricorn), rose and flung himself at the lads feet. theogenes knew the astrological ruler of capricorn was saturn, whose second golden age was at hand- saturn, the celestio mythical father-god of rome and father of jupiter. octavian, as the reincarnation of jupiter, would be ruled by saturn, the most dictatorial sign in the zodiac, terrible for his restriction, limitation, control, even to the excesses of fornication and cannabalizing of his own children.
In 28 bc, twelve years after the publication of the fourth ecolgue, octavian entered rome triumphantly as the prince of peace. Like julias had done, the new pontifex maximus received a new nad holier name, caesar augustus (" since sanctuaries and all places consecrated by the augers are known as "august'" according to suetonius.). And like julius, he was hailed as " the son of god". Historian alexander del mar describes the universal acceptance of the divine octavian in these excerpts from his landmark exposition of roman political deification, The Worship Of Augustus caesar(1899):
In the firm establishment of the messianic religion and ritual, augustus ascended the sacred throne of his martyred sire and was in turn addressed as the son of god (divi filius), whilst julius was worshipped as the father... This claim and assumption appears in the literature of his age, was engraved upon his monuments and stamped upon his coins..It was universally admitted and accepted throughout the roman empire as valid and legitimate, according to chronology, astrology, prophecy, and tradition... His actual worship as the son of god was enjoined and enforced by the laws of the empire, accepted by the priesthood and practiced by the people... Both de jure and de facto it constituted the fundamental article of the roman imperial and ecclesiastical constitution.
As supreme pontiff of the roman empire, augustus lawfully acquired and excercised authority over all cardinals, priests, curates, monks, nuns, flamens, augers, vestal virgins, temples, alters, shrines, sancturaries and monasteries, over all the religious rites, ceremonies, festivals, holidays, dedications, canonizations, marriages, divorces, adoptions, benefices, wills, burying grounds, fairs, and other ecclesiastical subjects and matters... The common people wore little images of augustus suspended from their necks. Great images nd shrines of the same person were erected in the highways, and resproted to for sanctuary. There wre a thousand such shrines in rome alone.
augustus wore on his head a pontifical mitre surmounted by a latin cross, an engraving of which, taken from a coin of the colonia julia germella, appears in Harduini, de numiis atiquis [1689], plate 1... The images of augustus upon the coins of his own mintage, or that of his vassals, are surrounded with the halo of light which is the pagan indication for divinity, and on the reverse of the coins are displayed the various emblems of pagan religion, such as the mitre, cross,crook, fishes, labarum, and the buddhic or bacchic or dionysian monogram of PX [ the grek chi-rho, " cairo" site of the great pyramid].
The augustan writers furnished materials showing that [ augustus'] incarnation was the issue of a divine father and mortal mother, that the mother was a wife-virgin, that the birth occured in an obscure place, that it was foretold by prophecy or sacred oracle, the it was presaged or accompanied by prodigies of nature, that the divinity of the child was recognied by sages, that the "holy one" exhibited extraordinary signs of precocity and wisdom, that his destruction was sought by the ruling powers, that his miraculous touch was sufficient to cure deformity or disease, that he exhibited a profound humility, that his deification would bring peace on earth, and that he would finally ascend to heaven, there to join the father.
So universally were his divine origin and attributes conceded, that many people, in dying, left their entire fortunes to his sacred personal fisc, in gratitute, as they themselves expressed it, for having been permitted to live during the incarnation and earthly sojourn of this "son of god". In the course of twenty years he thus inhereted no less than 35,000,000 gold aurei [nearly $1 billion at 1996 values]...Many potentates bequethed him not only thier private fortunes, but also their kingdoms and people in vassalage..The marble and bronze monuments to augustus still extant contain nearly one hundred sacred titles. Amoung them are jupiter optimus maximus, apollo, janus, quirinus, dionysus,mercurius,volcanus,neptunus, liber pater, savus [savious] and Hesus.
At his death, senator numericus atticus supposedly saw his spirit ascend to heaven. The ascension of augustus is engraved upon the great cameo, from the spoils of constantinople, presented by baldwin II to lois IX, and now in the cabinet of france. A fascimile of it is published in duruys history of rome...
Americas great seal, with it's obsessive fidelity to caesarian rome, cannot represent a nation more moral than the source of it's "scripture". The icons and mysteious cabbalistic language of this seal introduce a prosperous babylonian gospel. Taken seriously (and shouldn't a governments solemn statements be taken seriously?), the seals gospel teaches that ameica's high spiritual purpose is to assist in the ressurection of the son of gods mutilated parts from the evil slime of human flesh. It tells us that aleady the holy virgin has rescued the sons sacred heart from the slime - e pluribus unum, "one from many" - and has placed it high in the vault of heaven, as her five pointed celestial path describes for all to see. It calls for america to exert fervent sexual energy so that the sons many parts on earth might be reunited with the unum of heaven. It promises that america will rise toward the pure light of sinlessness and godliness, into eternal life as part of the solar body of the son- the sun - of god. It signifies that this cosmic ressurective procss is administered by a pyramidic hierarchy conceived in ancient babylon, exported to asia minor, and bequethed to rome. At the top of the heirarchy sits an unseen cheiftan, an unknown superior, a god of the seal who posesses universal intelligence and authority over every soul who confederates with, or ascribes to, the seal.
The god of the seal wields the fasces to sweep the earth clean of the last traces of original sin. He is assisted by a new priestly order, a "new world order" charged with destroyig all individual identity deemed inconsistant with the ressurection to godliness. Uncooperative governements and dissident citizens alike are cut down by arts of war so frugal that the liquidation increases popular faith in the fasces. Because they function in a golden age of saturn, the chief and his hierarhcy can be depended upon to mimic saturns strictness, cruelty, licentiousness, even cannabalism as the situation requires.
What the seal of the united states of america represents, to anyone who takes it seriously, is a ministry of sin. A speech by Jesuit politican scientist michal novak, published in the january 28, 1989 issue of america, the weekly magazine of american jesuits, sums it up:
" The framers wanted to build a "novus ordo" that would secure "liberty and justice for all".....The underlying principle of this new order is the fact of human sin. To build a republic designed for sinners, then, is the indispensible task....There is no use building a social system for saints. There are too few of them. And those there are are impossible to live with!....Any effective social system must be designed for the only moral majority there is: sinners.
And it can be clearly seen how faithfully the founding fathers have reconstructed babylonian rome on the banks of the potomac.
So not only have ancient pagan nations fought in the name of thier gods, america is lead by a polytheistic religion itself.
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It was only in the blending of politics and religion that intolerance came about. People were allowed to worship whatever other gods they wanted, as long as they paid tribute to the emperor.
No they didn't just have to pay tribute to the emperor, they had to recognise him as GOD.
edit: Christianity, true Christianity hreatened the roman empire because if Yehoshua is the Son Of God, then who is caesar?
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And I assure you I don't know what you're talking about. Examples, please.
No, I thin I've done enough. It took me quite a while to type all that.. you can search on your own. You fail to grasp a well known phenomena, that before "secular" democracy swept Europe and america, kings and nations were responsible to the religious clergy. This is how it has been for not only roman catholic nations, but ALL nations in history. Sometimes the king is the supreme glergyman, but all the same.
Whenever a nation fights, they fight in the name of their gods.Every empire that has been established was backed by religion. Even napolion bonaparte deified himself! And he was against the roman catholic church if you don't know. He captured the pope and held him in prison.
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The vast majority of wars throughout history, whether the fighting powers were pagan, Christian, muslim, etc., have not been about religion. They have mostly been about money, land, resources, and power. They might have justified their fight by claiming that God or the gods were on their side, but the justification was not the motivation.
It has been part of the justification. Of course these reasons you mention are also very valid as well.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/24/07 08:44 PM)
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