Home | Community | Message Board

Cannabis Seeds UK
This site includes paid links. Please support our sponsors.


Welcome to the Shroomery Message Board! You are experiencing a small sample of what the site has to offer. Please login or register to post messages and view our exclusive members-only content. You'll gain access to additional forums, file attachments, board customizations, encrypted private messages, and much more!

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder

Jump to first unread post Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed?
    #7664139 - 11/21/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not I.

I may be a bit pessimistic in saying this, but our society sickens me to the point where I would rather be a part of its permanent destruction than to live the rest of my life tied into this meaningless game we call life. I'm not suicidal, but I would have no fear or regret should my life end alongside every other life on this planet. What better way to go? I can't think of one.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJustice_Fish
Fustice_Jish
Male


Registered: 01/06/07
Posts: 2,652
Loc: CebèuQ
Last seen: 7 years, 3 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664186 - 11/21/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You're quite right.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisiblemachination
Stranger
Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Hringhorni
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Justice_Fish]
    #7664213 - 11/21/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

know


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: machination]
    #7664434 - 11/21/07 07:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"but our society sickens me to the point where..."

Where are you then, other than a point where societies ride, simply doesnt work for you...

Be the ride dude for those who cannot see they are riding. Bring them down and help them join the wave of change.
Just listent.
Your brain is capable of admitting its weakness, the weakness of the past beliefs. Now that you know what is wrong, you must know what is right.

Now that it has made you sick, you will learn how to heal it.


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664454 - 11/21/07 07:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I may be a bit pessimistic in saying this, but our society sickens me to the point where I would rather be a part of its permanent destruction than to live the rest of my life tied into this meaningless game we call life.




You can take your life for that, no need to wish the same thing for all the rest.
Any social structure in my opinion, is flawed by definition.
But this doesn't have to interfere with your well being, and if it does, then it is you the one with the problems.
It really baffles me when I hear people complaining about life, about how nothing is the way it "should" be, as if they knew what to do with the world. They don't even know what to do with themselves. :thumbdown:

Quote:

I'm not suicidal, but I would have no fear or regret should my life end alongside every other life on this planet. What better way to go? I can't think of one.




You're not suicidal, but dying would be ok if the rest would die too. :rolleyes:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7664531 - 11/21/07 07:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think you're twisting my words a bit here. I'm not wishing anything on our world, but rather I welcome some sort of cataclysmic event that I could be a part of. I don't want to die after living my whole life to make money, buy possessions, accrue interest, ect. I'd much rather have my death be during some significant event that would end the world. Call it selfish, whatever.

As for my "solution" I'd say that there would be no easy one. Currency would need to be gotten rid of, but thats not possible without making some key changes first. Society would have to be structured in such a way that everyone helped themselves and each other. Often times people fight this sort of thought by saying something to the effect of "The world needs garbage men." My best reply would be that we don't need vast service industries staffed by the untouchables if we all filled those jobs by making more effort at the individual level. We need to stop pawning off our responsibility to the people who will do it the cheapest.

Hardly even a start, I know, but this is far from a complete thought as of my creation of this thread, so bear with me.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineigwna
The Cap'n
Male

Registered: 06/19/07
Posts: 8,016
Loc: New England, USA
Last seen: 9 years, 5 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664570 - 11/21/07 07:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the world is an amazing and beautiful thing.
i would always be dissapointed to see it gone.


but hell, if i died in the apocalypse.. i'd be satisfied with my death.


--------------------
I don't believe in cops, bosses, or politicians. Some call that anarchism. I call it having a fucking heart that beats.



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664597 - 11/21/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'll try to gather my thoughts together in this post, critique them as you will.

Problems with Society:
The Class System
Why?: Some argue that humans wish to be lead. I contest that humans do not seek leadership, but rather seek the comforts of having it. These comforts, mostly in the form of material wealth, are not vital to our existence. While it may be useful to have leaders for individual tasks, it is harmful to have omni-leaders (presidents, senators, dictators, ect) because each person has their own strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, certain people may be adept at leading certain things, but no one person (or small group) can do it all.

Commercialism
-Mass Media (Television, Radio, the Internet, ect.)
Why?: Commercialism ties down humankind to a mere material sense of wealth. It brings attention away from the strengths and weaknesses of the individual and replaces them with a fascade of artificial wealth and meaningless power. Materialism creates the class system.

Ignorance
Why?: Ignorance is a result of people not having responsibility for themselves. There is no excuse for the rampant stupidity that plagues our society, as it is a result of the laziness and apathy that results from our class system. If everyone became accountable for themselves at the individual level, society as a whole would become much more competent, and could function more comfortably than if there is a percentage of people who must be supported by a small group of competent people.


Thats all for now, thats all I could think of at this time.


Edited by xFrockx (11/21/07 07:41 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664690 - 11/21/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldnt be disappointed b/c this world is kinda shitty at the moment, and the events leading up to 2012 would most likely be ridiculous. But then again i still have a lot of shit to see and do, i feel like my life is just now starting at 21 and the previous years were lived by someone else. So im kinda stuck with this question.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefaceofbear
the witch-doctorlife
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 112
Last seen: 11 years, 1 month
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7664780 - 11/21/07 08:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i wouldn't mind because then i'd go down in history as the sexiest member of the last generation of humanity and i'd get all the girls.


--------------------
http://www.last.fm/music/The+Wolf


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinePhanTomCat
Teh Cat....
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664841 - 11/21/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It sounds like you will be disappointed if the world doesn't end in 2012....    :smirk:

Myself, I am happy to have this chance to live,
and will be almost equally happy when I have the chance to die....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664851 - 11/21/07 08:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Problems with Society:
The Class System
Why?: Some argue that humans wish to be lead. I contest that humans do not seek leadership, but rather seek the comforts of having it. These comforts, mostly in the form of material wealth, are not vital to our existence. While it may be useful to have leaders for individual tasks, it is harmful to have omni-leaders (presidents, senators, dictators, ect) because each person has their own strengths and weaknesses. Obviously, certain people may be adept at leading certain things, but no one person (or small group) can do it all.




People want to be lead and it is what they need. Otherwise, they wouldn't have it.
Embracing the comforts it has to give is accepting it. Who are you to change that? Who are you to determine that it's time for them to change their lives?
This is the highest degree of dictatorship. :thumbdown:

Quote:

Commercialism
-Mass Media (Television, Radio, the Internet, ect.)
Why?: Commercialism ties down humankind to a mere material sense of wealth. It brings attention away from the strengths and weaknesses of the individual and replaces them with a fascade of artificial wealth and meaningless power. Materialism creates the class system.




Commercialism exists on public demand. Consumers and producers exists and create each other.
Just because some people use them irresponsibly, it doesn't mean that the concept of mass media is bad. In only means that we have yet to improve our skills in using it in a manner that is constructive and intelligent.
What do you wanna do? What do you see as being a solution to all that? Banning TV? The internet? This is information, this is being in touch with every corner of this world and this is evolution, we can benefit so much from all these and to be honest I really feel like these arguments are basic stuff and necessary to think about in order to start understanding something.

Quote:

Ignorance
Why?: Ignorance is a result of people not having responsibility for themselves. There is no excuse for the rampant stupidity that plagues our society, as it is a result of the laziness and apathy that results from our class system. If everyone became accountable for themselves at the individual level, society as a whole would become much more competent, and could function more comfortably than if there is a percentage of people who must be supported by a small group of competent people.




Take your own advice then and assume responsibly for your life. :wink: What others do and think is none of your concern. Whining is also a form of ignorance.
If this world has any real problems is because of people who think they have the answer and then try to impose it on everybody else.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: faceofbear]
    #7664860 - 11/21/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

faceofbear said:
i wouldn't mind because then i'd go down in history as the sexiest member of the last generation of humanity and i'd get all the girls.




All of them dead :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7664865 - 11/21/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

everyone knows that dead girls are the best girls.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7664899 - 11/21/07 09:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

And they tend to be quite obedient :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7664910 - 11/21/07 09:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I don't want to die after living my whole life to make money, buy possessions, accrue interest, ect.




If thats truly what you believe your life is all about then therein lies the problem. Change your priorities to coincide with what you truly find important and your perception of what you are living for will also change. View making money as a means to create happiness and joy for yourself and others. It doesn't have to be all about material possessions and instant gratification.

A lot of people complain about how shitty the world is and then go spend their money on a 500 dollar car payment or a 700 dollar handbag instead of doing something selfless and helpful with that money. They become zombies to the westernized way of life and let it smother their instinctual drive to contribute to the welfare of all humanity.


To answer the original question. No, I would not be disappointed.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7664927 - 11/21/07 09:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I would be because I never considered buying how to survive 2012 :frown:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
Loc: SOLARIS
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7664996 - 11/21/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i complain about it all the time and i just bought a ps3. does that make me a hypocrite, or does it make me bored?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7665036 - 11/21/07 10:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Take your own advice then and assume responsibly for your life.  What others do and think is none of your concern. Whining is also a form of ignorance.

If this world has any real problems is because of people who think they have the answer and then try to impose it on everybody else.





:thumbup:


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7665064 - 11/21/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Please realize that I am not proposing that I will try to change the world. I do not think that the problems I have listed are things that will ever be changed in human nature, rather, think of them as observations. Saying that my observations are some form of dictatorship is pretty ludicrous. All you are doing is using a straw man to twist my statements into something you can argue against. You make a number of unsubstantiated claims in your reaction, however, so I will point these out.

"People want to be lead and it is what they need. Otherwise, they wouldn't have it."

I could very easily argue that this is not the case. While people may want to be lead, it is most certainly not what they need. I think you are glazing over my original argument. Please notice how I distinguish between leadership and omni-leadership. Humans do normally use leaders to accomplish group tasks, this is not what I am opposing. I am opposing the idea of the omni-leader, or, one who leads society totally. I am arguing for the breakdown of mass-control in the form of government. Society does not have to be anarchy for such a thing to happen, but it would have to be responsible, which is something that our current system does not allow. In controlling people en masse, responsibility on the individual level breaks down, because honestly, who needs to worry about themselves when there are others to pick up the slack?

"Commercialism exists on public demand. Consumers and producers exists and create each other."

I'll focus on the first part, seeing as how the second part isn't even a complete thought. Commercialism does not exist as a result of public demand, but rather it exists to give the public demands. When humans came to be on this planet, we did not come with Coca-Cola, Mastercard, or Pancake Puff makers. These things are mere vestiges of real human needs. We do need food, shelter, ect, but what we do not need is a bunch of people telling us why we should buy their version. It is nothing but wasted energy. All I am arguing for is that we stop wasting this energy.

You say: "What do you wanna do? What do you see as being a solution to all that? Banning TV? The internet? This is information, this is being in touch with every corner of this world and this is evolution, we can benefit so much from all these and to be honest I really feel like these arguments are basic stuff and necessary to think about in order to start understanding something."

If society were to really change, there would be no need to ban anything. People as a whole would need to wake up and realize that none of it matters. What do you think are the benefits of mass media? Do you think they outweigh the harms? I'm not just talking misuse here either. By nature, any form of mass media is a form of mass control. Please realize I am not shunning global communication, far from it. I am simply saying that humans do not require their thoughts to be generalized and spewed across the world for all to hear.

"Take your own advice then and assume responsibly for your life. What others do and think is none of your concern. Whining is also a form of ignorance.
If this world has any real problems is because of people who think they have the answer and then try to impose it on everybody else."

I'm honestly not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. Did you read my post, or are you just trying to be an asshole? I suggest that people in general should have more personal accountability for their actions and now all of a sudden its my problem? And not only that, but I'm forcing someone to believe that they should.. oh... I don't know.. be responsible? How is this imposing anything on anyone? Get real, man. *edit* woman.


Edited by xFrockx (11/21/07 10:22 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7665079 - 11/21/07 10:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I completely understand what you are saying, because what I am proposing is precisely that, but without the middleman. We don't need money to help people, although it is one way of doing so with our system. I am all for helping others, being selfless, ect. but I believe that such things would happen naturally in a system that didn't revolve around commercialism, class, and wealth.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7665180 - 11/21/07 11:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Please realize that I am not proposing that I will try to change the world. I do not think that the problems I have listed are things that will ever be changed in human nature, rather, think of them as observations. Saying that my observations are some form of dictatorship is pretty ludicrous. All you are doing is using a straw man to twist my statements into something you can argue against. You make a number of unsubstantiated claims in your reaction, however, so I will point these out.




No I am not twisting your statements, maybe you should express what you have to say much better so there is no room for misinterpretation, if we want to have a real conversation, we have to get as exact as we can. I'd appreciate if you did so.
Now getting back to the subject:

Quote:

I could very easily argue that this is not the case. While people may want to be lead, it is most certainly not what they need. I think you are glazing over my original argument. Please notice how I distinguish between leadership and omni-leadership. Humans do normally use leaders to accomplish group tasks, this is not what I am opposing. I am opposing the idea of the omni-leader, or, one who leads society totally. I am arguing for the breakdown of mass-control in the form of government. Society does not have to be anarchy for such a thing to happen, but it would have to be responsible, which is something that our current system does not allow. In controlling people en masse, responsibility on the individual level breaks down, because honestly, who needs to worry about themselves when there are others to pick up the slack?




I know exactly what you were talking about and my first statement still stands.
I understood that you weren't referring to an "ordinary" form of leadership, but to those who are trying to control everything. Even though I am highly circumspect with anything that implies leadership, since it's corrupted by definition. But that's besides the point we're discussing here.
How do you know what people need? From what I know, nobody's forcing us into anything. Thinking that we're being forced to do something against our Will can easily turn into a psychological disorder. Also it is not the truth.
It is true that some people/groups are trying to set a social and cultural standard, but people follow it not because they're being forced to do so, but because it is their choice. Because it comes in accordance with some of their interests.
So I am sorry to announce you, but control "en-masse" simply doesn't exist. :shrug:

Quote:

I'll focus on the first part, seeing as how the second part isn't even a complete thought. Commercialism does not exist as a result of public demand, but rather it exists to give the public demands. When humans came to be on this planet, we did not come with Coca-Cola, Mastercard, or Pancake Puff makers. These things are mere vestiges of real human needs. We do need food, shelter, ect, but what we do not need is a bunch of people telling us why we should buy their version. It is nothing but wasted energy. All I am arguing for is that we stop wasting this energy.




We didn't come in this world with none of those, but they sure do make our lives easier.
Tell me, did you come in this world with a PC and access to internet? Why are you buying their version? Do you know how much money do they make because of people like you? :strokebeard:
Now leaving joking aside, what's the difference between Coca Cola or Mastercard and internet?
What do you wanna say by that? Should we go back to living in caves? Where do we draw the line between OK and not OK? What's good for us to use and what's bad? Should we stop at year 1800 instead of going to caves? :confused:
However, you have the freedom to choose to use none of these, make your own live the way you think it's "good" and just mind your own business. What others do is their own problem, and if they wanna "fuck up" their lives is none of your concern.
Ahhh and yes, what are the real human needs?

Quote:

If society were to really change, there would be no need to ban anything.




Ok, it is more than clear that the society won't change. Should we start considering banning?

Quote:

People as a whole would need to wake up and realize that none of it matters. What do you think are the benefits of mass media? Do you think they outweigh the harms? I'm not just talking misuse here either. By nature, any form of mass media is a form of mass control. Please realize I am not shunning global communication, far from it. I am simply saying that humans do not require their thoughts to be generalized and spewed across the world for all to hear.




And I am simply answering you that people are not brain washed (even if they might seem that they are). People obey because they want to, for one reason or another.

Quote:

I'm honestly not sure how you are coming to this conclusion. Did you read my post, or are you just trying to be an asshole? I suggest that people in general should have more personal accountability for their actions and now all of a sudden its my problem? And not only that, but I'm forcing someone to believe that they should.. oh... I don't know.. be responsible? How is this imposing anything on anyone? Get real, man. *edit* woman.




Yes, I read all your posts in this thread, this is exactly what made me make that statement, and I still sustain my points.
First you say that you're not happy about the direction this world is heading to, then you say that it would be ok for you to die, but only in the context of an Armageddon, then you say (again) that this is because you're not happy with the way that things are presenting themselves right now, and then you even give pointers about what's wrong with world.
This is exactly what made me give probably one of the most honest and uninterested advices you'll ever get: get over yourself, stop whining and live your own life the way you think it's right.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleRahz
Alive Again
Male

Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7665489 - 11/22/07 01:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>own problem, and if they wanna "fuck up" their lives is none of your concern. Ahhh and yes, what are the real human needs?

Yes indeed. People get what they need. They need what they get. Most need is an illusion, yet we have the illusion to work through, each at our own pace. To entertain the idea that people should not experience neediness is to entertain the idea that people should not be people. We live in the best of all possible worlds and everyone is doing the best they can with what they've got. We actually live in the only possible world, one of constant change, and is the best because it is the only. So why bitch?

The world is your mirror.

I'm not happy with the world as it is, becomes, I'm not happy with myself as I am.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinefantasylndvictm
yup
Female User Gallery


Registered: 03/19/07
Posts: 2,388
Loc: usa
Last seen: 8 years, 8 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7665632 - 11/22/07 02:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Sry if I conflict with anyone I haven't read the entire post yet.

I have been reading a book about 2012 although I haven't gotten that far into everything it says so far makes sense. I am actually afraid that the world will end there and what saddens me the most about is that I want kids and to actually believe the world will end then would make it almost like homocide to give birth right now. I know humanity is on its way to destruction and it's only our fault. I do believe that our psyche has vreated such destruction. Everyone is so negative about everything now that it automactically puts a negative influence into our world which enevitablly destroys part of the world we live on.

Sry if this doesn't make sense I've been drinking.


--------------------
"How do we know whether the life of any creature has fulfilled its destiny? I have known the very old to die in bitterness and despair. I have seen young children die before their time but leave behind such a legacy of love and joy that grief for their passing was tempered by the knowledge that their brief lives had given much to others."
"You have answered your own question,Tanis Half-Elven, far better than I could," the Forestmaster said gravely. "Say that that our lives are measured not by gain but by giving." -Dragonlance "Dragons of Autumn Twilight"

If we lived in luxury we would grow soft.

No human being truely knows their full capacity to love until they become a parent.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Invisible2sky
a friend of Narnia
Male

Registered: 08/08/07
Posts: 119
Loc: the Dawn
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7666739 - 11/22/07 11:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, it all depends on what would have happened in the future if it hadn't ended.

Poetically speaking, it reminds me of the old joke where a fellow gives a bunch of people a ride; and when he runs out of gas, they strip him, tie him to the front grill of the car and stick his head under the hood and abandon him. Finally, another guy stops and after the fellow tells what happened to him, the guy unzips his pants and says: ' Well, I guess this just isn't your lucky day'.


--------------------
To fly to the sun without burning a wing , and lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing - In Search of the Lost Chord / The Moody Blues - 1968

But for a tree to grow to the sky, it's roots must go to the very depths of hell itself - Tantra,the Supreme Understanding - osho


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7667385 - 11/22/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It could be both or it could be neither.


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineJoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: postanaldrip]
    #7667430 - 11/22/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think a root to many of these problems is a lack of empathically generated connections.

People on the communites of the western world, are closing off from each other, as a way to prevent conflict and pain. When all the while, this causes more conflict and pain.

Ask yourself this: If you have a problem, is it better to be able to speak openly with people about it, or harbour all the emotion and turmoil in your own head....

Heres the problem:

There is an inability for us to be complelty open about not being able to be completly open about our lives.

Why do so many of us feel so anxious and fearful in a public spehre, if we are so closed off from eachother.

Reason i think is because when you intend to close down expressing yourself as you want to, you have so much more to hide from people, so much repressed emotion builds and explodes in our homes, where we cant even get along with out families.

Suicide, domesitc abuse - do you think it is easy to talk about these things with people, when you are the abuser or the abused?

cAn you see this pain, this strength that clogs our strongest power: The power of unity, of togetherness, the power of acceptance, mutual love and opening ourselves.

Were we born open or closed....


--------------------
The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution.

And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change.

Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems.

Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlinepostanaldrip
human alien
Male
Registered: 07/31/01
Posts: 676
Loc: Earth
Last seen: 13 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be disappointed? [Re: JoseLibrado]
    #7667965 - 11/22/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

People on the communites of the western world, are closing off from each other, as a way to prevent conflict and pain. When all the while, this causes more conflict and pain.

There is an inability for us to be complelty open about not being able to be completly open about our lives.





Reminds me of the short film by Alan Ball "Six Feet Under"


--------------------
"It's not until we've lost everything, that we're free to do anything." TDFC


Edited by postanaldrip (11/22/07 07:33 PM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7668500 - 11/22/07 10:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"From what I know, nobody's forcing us into anything. Thinking that we're being forced to do something against our Will can easily turn into a psychological disorder. Also it is not the truth."

I admit that everyone does have a choice in how they live their lives, of course they do. However, this choice cannot be equated to something simple that would allow anyone to do as they pleased. Yes, I could decide to ditch the class system, money, ect, by packing up and living somewhere in the woods, but does our society make this a viable or even possible option? I think not. In order to function with other people in our world one needs to constrain themselves to some degree. As another poster mentioned, the strain with which we communicate is unbearably tight, and this self censorship alone pervades our ability to be who we truly are. Think of how many people are born into this materialistic dream and live their whole lives without ever realizing that they can question it. Yes, they have a choice in how they live, but do they even know their options? This forum is a fairly skewed population in terms of self-realization, so its hard to understand how obtuse our society really is. I don't know about you, but I live in a pretty rural area, there are people here who have never even left the county (not country, county.) Sure, these people may be happy here, but thats because they don't know anything else. Is this wrong? Maybe not. Is this right? I'm not so sure about that either. But I digress, I'm not trying to speak against homebodies, but rather I am trying to show how this sort of mindset applies to people in general. If you don't know what you are missing, you can't miss it.

"Now leaving joking aside, what's the difference between Coca Cola or Mastercard and internet?"

This is pretty simple. Coca Cola and Mastercard are brands. The internet is a tool. There aren't different brands of internet (yet, anyway) it contains the same information regardless of what brand of computer you choose to access it with. While it is easy to point out "Hey buddy, you're a corporate whore because you use an intel chipset and Gskill RAM to access the internet" but it is still just an ad-hominem attack.

"What do you wanna say by that? Should we go back to living in caves? Where do we draw the line between OK and not OK? What's good for us to use and what's bad? Should we stop at year 1800 instead of going to caves? "

Great strawman, but I'll reply anyway. You seem to be missing the point of my argument. I'm not trying to advocate regression. I am simply pointing out that there are aspects of our society which are ingrained into how we function, and it restricts who we can become. I offered a list of things that I believe are contributing to this restriction after saying in my original post that our society sickened me. Now, are you arguing that these things I have pointed out are not restrictive? If so, you haven't really provided much ground for your argument aside from stating that it is so. For example:

"However, you have the freedom to choose to use none of these, make your own live the way you think it's "good" and just mind your own business. What others do is their own problem, and if they wanna "fuck up" their lives is none of your concern."

Do you truly believe that this is possible in this world? If you wanted to move to Alaska and live in the wilderness, would you not need to get a job to buy your supplies? Make money for gas? Buy survival training books? How do you propose one does this if they made the "free choice" to abandon these things? Aside from stealing and/or hitchhiking, I would love to hear your solution.

In a society without these methods, currency, commercialism, ect, the answer would be more difficult to obtain, but much more freely structured. In order to gather these items one would not need to find money, one could simply use the knowledge of those around him/her in order to do so. Sure, you will argue that this is possible now. However, I believe society prohibits this in placing arbitrary value on knowledge. People have the "what is in it for me" mentality. Would that exist in my proposed society? Certainly a good question, but I don't believe it is an answerable one without first going through such a paradigm shift. In order to do so a societies' mindset would need to change drastically, and while it is easy to chalk up the need for profit to human nature I believe this is a narrow minded approach. When lions hunt together, do they not share the kill without asking anything in return? When a lone penguin opts to be the first to jump into the dark water, does he make sure he has life insurance? Do you now see how that sort of thinking is not necessarily valid?

"Ahhh and yes, what are the real human needs?"
Food, Water and Sex. These are all that is necessary to sustain our species.

"And I am simply answering you that people are not brain washed (even if they might seem that they are). People obey because they want to, for one reason or another."

Because they want to, or because they have to? There is a certain stigma associated with living outside the normal bounds of our society, is there not? This stigma is a prime example of what I think should be done away with. If I wanted to go live in the woods, people would think I was either a nutcase or a hippie. If we lived in a truly free society, people would only see me as someone who lives in the woods.

"This is exactly what made me give probably one of the most honest and uninterested advices you'll ever get: get over yourself, stop whining and live your own life the way you think it's right."

Ah yes, you serve as a prime example. I believe that people in the world should be free to do whatever they want, and as a response, you tell me to get over myself. Surely if I advocate freedom I must be selfish. Freedom isn't safe and comfortable for everyone. It isn't meant to be either.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7668547 - 11/22/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

will you be dissapointed?

Nah, I won't be dissapointed, but I will have to update this list one more time:

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/3394240#Post3394240


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Diploid]
    #7668643 - 11/22/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Our entire solar system moves 19 MILLION KM every day, maybe we really are headed for some new kind of intergalactic space...

Here's a fun new History Channel documentary about the lost book of Nostradamus, it mentions the 2012 alignment and features my friend Vincent Bridges.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Middleman]
    #7668657 - 11/22/07 11:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe. Sure. And maybe the Tooth Fairy lives in a nice condo on mars.

Many things are possible because they have an infinitessimally small chance of happening. Wasting mental energy thinking about them is a waste of brainpower.

If we were really headed for some gigantic blob of 'special space', one of the millions of telescopes and other space-observing instruments we have all over the place would have noticed it by now.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: Diploid]
    #7668662 - 11/22/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah ok, it must be comforting to be so sure of our scientific senses.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7668686 - 11/22/07 11:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I admit that everyone does have a choice in how they live their lives, of course they do. However, this choice cannot be equated to something simple that would allow anyone to do as they pleased. Yes, I could decide to ditch the class system, money, ect, by packing up and living somewhere in the woods, but does our society make this a viable or even possible option? I think not. In order to function with other people in our world one needs to constrain themselves to some degree.




This means that you're dependent (psychologically) on the idea of society and sticking to the social standards, even though apparently you despise them. Well you can't just say I want to be loved and accepted and do my own thing, but I hate the way society exists. To you see the leap in thinking here?
You either want to live the way you want, or you don't because it's more convenient for you to stick with the herd. Which I don't have anything against, because it is your choice and it concerns you, but what doesn't make sense is why you keep complaining about it.
I don't fall for "I have no choice". This is just a socially accepted excuse for those who would revolt but lack the courage to do so. It is also what keeps us back and hold us from becoming more accepting, embracing reality as it is and act accordingly.

Quote:

As another poster mentioned, the strain with which we communicate is unbearably tight, and this self censorship alone pervades our ability to be who we truly are. Think of how many people are born into this materialistic dream and live their whole lives without ever realizing that they can question it. Yes, they have a choice in how they live, but do they even know their options?




ALL the options are everywhere, even in the smallest city or apparently "closed" community, everything is already there, chances for becoming more aware and analytical. Yes, people DO know their options, they just opt not to opt for them. :wink:
Why they do that, I already said: because it is safer for them somehow to keep on following the herd.

Quote:

This forum is a fairly skewed population in terms of self-realization, so its hard to understand how obtuse our society really is.




No you got it all backwards.
It is exactly why, this forum is the way it is, that a big part of the people here would probably say that each and every one of us, have the unaltered free Will to change our lives the way it serves us better. And that nobody's really controlled, but just unwilling to make a shift in thinking.

Quote:

I don't know about you, but I live in a pretty rural area, there are people here who have never even left the county (not country, county.) Sure, these people may be happy here, but thats because they don't know anything else. Is this wrong? Maybe not. Is this right? I'm not so sure about that either. But I digress, I'm not trying to speak against homebodies, but rather I am trying to show how this sort of mindset applies to people in general. If you don't know what you are missing, you can't miss it.




I am not missing it, I just gave up lying to myself by telling me that people don't really have a real choice regarding changing their lives. We usually delude ourselves into thinking that because it's so much easier to find an excuse for our own failures and fears.

Quote:

This is pretty simple. Coca Cola and Mastercard are brands. The internet is a tool. There aren't different brands of internet (yet, anyway) it contains the same information regardless of what brand of computer you choose to access it with. While it is easy to point out "Hey buddy, you're a corporate whore because you use an intel chipset and Gskill RAM to access the internet" but it is still just an ad-hominem attack.




No, to be quite honest, you didn't outline any difference here.
A credit card is also a tool.
Coca cola is a drink which exists because lots of people want it to exists. If there was nobody to buy it, it would go out of production in an instant.

Quote:

Great strawman, but I'll reply anyway. You seem to be missing the point of my argument. I'm not trying to advocate regression. I am simply pointing out that there are aspects of our society which are ingrained into how we function, and it restricts who we can become. I offered a list of things that I believe are contributing to this restriction after saying in my original post that our society sickened me. Now, are you arguing that these things I have pointed out are not restrictive? If so, you haven't really provided much ground for your argument aside from stating that it is so. For example:




And you came up with a few more restrictive ideas, such as giving up credit cards and the like. :lol: Can't you see the irony in all that?
No, I don't think that those things are restrictive, people who use them are restricting themselves, but this is also because it is what they choose.
You accuse me of straw man for the second time and I'm beginning to wonder if you really know what that is.
You say that you don't whine about life, but yet all you do is... complain. Find errors in the way other people live and then try to "correct" them your way. This pretty much sounds like whining to me. :shrug:

Quote:

Do you truly believe that this is possible in this world? If you wanted to move to Alaska and live in the wilderness, would you not need to get a job to buy your supplies? Make money for gas? Buy survival training books? How do you propose one does this if they made the "free choice" to abandon these things? Aside from stealing and/or hitchhiking, I would love to hear your solution.

...

In order to do so a societies' mindset would need to change drastically, and while it is easy to chalk up the need for profit to human nature I believe this is a narrow minded approach. When lions hunt together, do they not share the kill without asking anything in return? When a lone penguin opts to be the first to jump into the dark water, does he make sure he has life insurance? Do you now see how that sort of thinking is not necessarily valid?




Can't you see that you're contradicting yourself here?
First you say that by the way life is working now for humans, we really have no other options :rolleyes: but to submit, if we want to live a safe life, have money for gas and blah blah blah, and then you come with an example (the one with the animals in the wilderness) on how our society could change by following their example.
Still, you consider that you can't do this on your own, but that the entire population on Earth has to follow you there, had to change their lives after what you think is right.
Tell me, what would be the difference if all the people would adhere to your ideas, other than a psychological barrier which keeps you stuck in confusion?
Is it that the idea that social security still exists will actually keep you from moving to Alaska and live in the wilderness? Or the fact that you can't use master card when you're climbing a tree? :lol:
Stealing and hitchhiking are indeed two options. Amongst others such as learning how to survive in the wilderness, how to build your own house, grow your own food and stuff like that.
But please DO tell me, what is wrong with stealing and hitchhiking? I really don;t understand, what do you want exactly? Perhaps you dream about a govt which is willing to sponsor your living in the woods? :smirk:

Quote:

In a society without these methods, currency, commercialism, ect, the answer would be more difficult to obtain, but much more freely structured. In order to gather these items one would not need to find money, one could simply use the knowledge of those around him/her in order to do so. Sure, you will argue that this is possible now. However, I believe society prohibits this in placing arbitrary value on knowledge. People have the "what is in it for me" mentality. Would that exist in my proposed society? Certainly a good question, but I don't believe it is an answerable one without first going through such a paradigm shift.




Again, what does th society have to do with your choice to live life differently?
It is emotional attachment to this idea of being sustained by a society, it is the need to feel appreciated and understood. It is also the need to feel accepted. All of these come from fear, and saying that the world is stopping you from being who you really are is just an excuse.

Quote:

Food, Water and Sex. These are all that is necessary to sustain our species.




These you go, so why is that difficult to go after food, water and sex (the basic needs) and stop giving a damn about how society might look at you and judge you?

Quote:

Because they want to, or because they have to? There is a certain stigma associated with living outside the normal bounds of our society, is there not? This stigma is a prime example of what I think should be done away with. If I wanted to go live in the woods, people would think I was either a nutcase or a hippie. If we lived in a truly free society, people would only see me as someone who lives in the woods.




Because they want to, since there is no "they have to" :rolleyes:
Read above because I already explained.

Quote:

Ah yes, you serve as a prime example. I believe that people in the world should be free to do whatever they want, and as a response, you tell me to get over myself. Surely if I advocate freedom I must be selfish. Freedom isn't safe and comfortable for everyone. It isn't meant to be either.




You don't advocate freedom, you want a world where freedom is being perceived in the same manner by everybody. Freedom is subjective, as well as everything else.
Some consider that being free is live out in the woods, some believe that freedom means having a lot of money, some consider that freedom is to commit suicide. And the list could go on endlessly. Who are you to determine what's freedom, on a universal level? How do you know that your appreciation is accurate?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleaDoS
freedom lover
Male User Gallery


Registered: 06/18/05
Posts: 7,590
Loc: land of the free
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? *DELETED* [Re: xFrockx]
    #7668758 - 11/23/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by aDoS

Reason for deletion: .



--------------------
"If we could sniff or swallow something that would, for five or six hours each day, abolish our solitude as individuals, atone us with our fellows in a glowing exaltation of affection and make life in all its aspects seem not only worth living, but divinely beautiful and significant, and if this heavenly, world-transfiguring drug were of such a kind that we could wake up next morning with a clear head and an undamaged constitution - then, it seems to me, all our problems (and not merely the one small problem of discovering a novel pleasure) would be wholly solved and earth would become paradise." - Aldous Huxley
:drooling:GIVE ME OPIATES OR GIVE ME DEATH:drooling:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Male User Gallery


Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: aDoS]
    #7668893 - 11/23/07 01:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Careful now! :nono: Logic is to a mystic-head as garlic is to a vampire.


--------------------


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Offlineimplee
Cyber Hippie
Male User Gallery

Registered: 07/27/06
Posts: 5,833
Loc: Houston, Texas. Flag
Last seen: 5 months, 19 days
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7669165 - 11/23/07 04:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed?" You cant be disappointed when your not alive, use your head.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7669479 - 11/23/07 08:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You continue to say that I have all the choice in the world when it comes to living my life, but riddle me this:

What happens when I decide to stop using money, and then get imprisoned for not paying taxes?

"No, to be quite honest, you didn't outline any difference here.
A credit card is also a tool.
Coca cola is a drink which exists because lots of people want it to exists. If there was nobody to buy it, it would go out of production in an instant."

Wow, you are trying really hard to disagree with me when you are obviously wrong. Yes, a credit card is a tool, Mastercard is a brand, as is coca cola. The internet is not a brand. Get it?

"Tell me, what would be the difference if all the people would adhere to your ideas, other than a psychological barrier which keeps you stuck in confusion?
Is it that the idea that social security still exists will actually keep you from moving to Alaska and live in the wilderness? Or the fact that you can't use master card when you're climbing a tree? "

What is the difference? Well, one that really contradicts your idea of free choice I have allready come up with: Taxes. I must work within societies rules in order to pay taxes so the IRS does not send me to federal prison.

Oh, and I thought I might as well address your doubt on my knowing what a strawman is. In your post you say that I envision a world where the government endorses me to climb a tree. This is a classic example of a strawman. It takes my words regarding living in the wilderness, and distorts them into a very easily ridiculed idea that has little to do with my original argument. When did I say the government would be endorsing anything?

"You don't advocate freedom, you want a world where freedom is being perceived in the same manner by everybody. Freedom is subjective, as well as everything else.
Some consider that being free is live out in the woods, some believe that freedom means having a lot of money, some consider that freedom is to commit suicide. And the list could go on endlessly. Who are you to determine what's freedom, on a universal level? How do you know that your appreciation is accurate? "

See, here is where you are wrong. Freedom is not subjective. Freedom is the ability to do all of those things you mentioned, or none of them.

You do make some good points though, I can see what you mean about how making everyone live "my way" would be no different than now. Perhaps I should have thought that out a little more. However, you seem to neglect to realize that we do not have free choices now. Our system now is a one-dimensional way of life. Those who choose to live outside it, by doing things like not paying taxes, doing drugs, squatting on land one did not buy. All of these things impede us in living how we choose. In the end, if you truly want to be free, you'll probably end up in prison.


Edited by xFrockx (11/23/07 08:48 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7669538 - 11/23/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

What happens when I decide to stop using money, and then get imprisoned for not paying taxes?




If you don't have any incomes you don't have to pay any taxes

Quote:

Wow, you are trying really hard to disagree with me when you are obviously wrong. Yes, a credit card is a tool, Mastercard is a brand, as is coca cola. The internet is not a brand. Get it?




No, I don't "get" it because there isn't any difference.
Let me explain what you just said: it's ok to use the internet because it's a brand. What you fail to see that internet is a general term, and that there ARE internet companies and you must ask for their services in order to have access to internet.
Just like credit card is a general term. And there there's Master card and Visa and so on.
Both internet and credit cards have brands.

Quote:

What is the difference? Well, one that really contradicts your idea of free choice I have allready come up with: Taxes. I must work within societies rules in order to pay taxes so the IRS does not send me to federal prison.




Yeah, I already answered you that. As long as you don't have any incomes you don't pay any taxes.  :rolleyes:

Quote:

See, here is where you are wrong. Freedom is not subjective. Freedom is the ability to do all of those things you mentioned, or none of them.




I am sorry, there's no way I can have this discussion any further because you refuse to bring reason in your arguments so it's like talking to a wall.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? *DELETED* [Re: implee]
    #7669566 - 11/23/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Post deleted by LunarEclipse

Reason for deletion: sibueud



--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7669580 - 11/23/07 09:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"If you don't have any incomes you don't have to pay any taxes"

Tell that to the $150 or so dollars of local taxes I pay every year, regardless of income. How old are you?

"No, I don't "get" it because there isn't any difference.
Let me explain what you just said: it's ok to use the internet because it's a brand."

No. The internet is not a brand. Coca Cola is a Brand. Master Card is a Brand.

"nd that there ARE internet companies and you must ask for their services in order to have access to internet."

Internet service providers are one way to access the internet, but not the only way (it is possible to set up your own ISP, how do you think the companies do it). The internet is one contiguous tool. You are making my head hurt.

"Yeah, I already answered you that. As long as you don't have any incomes you don't pay any taxes."

What fantasy world are you living in? I pay my local school taxes regardless. The only thing I can get exempt from is the federal income tax.


"I am sorry, there's no way I can have this discussion any further because you refuse to bring reason in your arguments so it's like talking to a wall."

1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
4. political or national independence.
5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought his freedom.
6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually fol. by from): freedom from fear.
7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
8. ease or facility of movement or action: to enjoy the freedom of living in the country.
9. frankness of manner or speech.
10. general exemption or immunity: freedom from taxation.
11. the absence of ceremony or reserve.
12. a liberty taken.
13. a particular immunity or privilege enjoyed, as by a city or corporation: freedom to levy taxes.
14. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.
15. the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like.
16. the right to frequent, enjoy, or use at will: to have the freedom of a friend's library.
17. Philosophy. the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination. Compare

Hows that for reason. Freedom is not subjective. Read. Think. Understand. Know.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7669582 - 11/23/07 09:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's easy.
Somebody else wakes you up and tells you: dude you're dead! :what:
:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleLunarEclipse
Enlil's Official Story
Male User Gallery


Registered: 10/31/04
Posts: 21,407
Loc: Building 7
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7669617 - 11/23/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


Poster: MushroomTrip
Subject: Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed?

That's easy.
Somebody else wakes you up and tells you: dude you're dead!







Could always be worse. Someone wakes you up and tells you in an excited voice: Dude! You're getting a Dell!


--------------------
Anxiety is what you make it.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineKristian
Stranger

Registered: 11/15/07
Posts: 31
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7669659 - 11/23/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I await quietly in the corner. If it happens, it happens. I can't seem to act as God and prevent a possible apocalypse so I will just be the best human I can.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
Female User Gallery


Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 2 years, 10 months
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7669701 - 11/23/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tell that to the $150 or so dollars of local taxes I pay every year, regardless of income. How old are you?





I'll let you tell them, you're a big boy, you can take care of your own stuff. :smirk:
Also my age has nothing to do with with the subject that's being discussed.
I haven't checked your country's laws to see about the regulations of your tax payments, but look what I found with :google:
How to Save Taxes Without Going to Jail

A small passage from the text you'll find there:

Quote:

Expatriation

One way to avoid income taxes, estate taxes and even the social security tax is to give up your U.S. citizenship (expatriate) and move to a tax haven. The reason you have to give up your citizenship is because the U.S. imposes taxes on the world-wide income of a citizen, regardless of where they live.  After you expatriate, all future income from non U.S. sources will not be subject to U.S. taxes.

But ... to avoid having to pay even higher taxes in another country, you would need to locate a country with no income or estate taxes on its residents. Such countries are often referred to as "tax havens".

And ... because you need to have a passport to travel and you must be a citizen of some country in order to have a passport, you might want to become a citizen of another major country (like Canada) before you give up your U.S. citizenship.

The USA is the only major country in the world that asserts the authority to tax the income of its citizens no matter where they live. In other high tax countries, if you move to another country you are no longer subject to the taxes imposed by the former country. IN most English countries, you don't have to give up your citizenship and passport in order to do that. Thus, you could move to Canada or Australia long enough to become a citizen and you could then move to a low tax country like the Bahamas or Bermuda. But if you are a U.S. citizen or permanent resident, you must formally give up your citizenship or resident status.

However, this is not a simple procedure and you could be subject to U.S. taxes on any tax deferred income for up to ten years after you expatriate. For those with modest assets (under $600,000), the process is not as difficult and it may be possible to avoid any U.S. tax immediately after giving up your U.S. citizenship. Further details about the tax rules for expatriation are included in the Offshore Tax Manual.




See? There ARE always solutions and different choices for those who are willing to invest time and making use of their brain, in changing their lives.

Quote:

Internet service providers are one way to access the internet, but not the only way (it is possible to set up your own ISP, how do you think the companies do it). The internet is one contiguous tool. You are making my head hurt.




I am sorry but  am not responsible for your technical errors. :smirk:

Quote:

What fantasy world are you living in? I pay my local school taxes regardless. The only thing I can get exempt from is the federal income tax.




You're paying school taxes because you agree to live in this society. Agreeing on that is agreeing on paying taxes.
However, nobody's forcing you to adhere to those standards, nobody's demanding you to go to school.

Quote:

1. the state of being free or at liberty rather than in confinement or under physical restraint: He won his freedom after a retrial.
2. exemption from external control, interference, regulation, etc.
3. the power to determine action without restraint.
4. political or national independence.
5. personal liberty, as opposed to bondage or slavery: a slave who bought his freedom.
6. exemption from the presence of anything specified (usually fol. by from): freedom from fear.
7. the absence of or release from ties, obligations, etc.
8. ease or facility of movement or action: to enjoy the freedom of living in the country.
9. frankness of manner or speech.
10. general exemption or immunity: freedom from taxation.
11. the absence of ceremony or reserve.
12. a liberty taken.
13. a particular immunity or privilege enjoyed, as by a city or corporation: freedom to levy taxes.
14. civil liberty, as opposed to subjection to an arbitrary or despotic government.
15. the right to enjoy all the privileges or special rights of citizenship, membership, etc., in a community or the like.
16. the right to frequent, enjoy, or use at will: to have the freedom of a friend's library.
17. Philosophy. the power to exercise choice and make decisions without constraint from within or without; autonomy; self-determination. Compare

Hows that for reason. Freedom is not subjective. Read. Think. Understand. Know.




You sounds like an anti drug campaign from the 70's :lol: :smirk:
It ironic that someone like you, who pleads for "freedom" like Mother Teresa pleading for wold peace, are so bonded by a set of definitions, which, might I add, are all socially and culturally regalement.
Doesn't coca cola have the freedom to exist and be sold, in the same measure as you have the freedom to revolt against it?
Freedom is indeed subjective, and those who let themselves tied down by a set of rules will never be happy or live a healthy life. It's those people who do nothing else but bitch and complain about this world's problems instead of fixing their lives in the best way possible and actually start feeling good about it.
Doesn't the gravity take you the liberty to float? What of one finds himself not free do do what he wants, because of this tragic event? Should he revolt against the Earth? Isn't it only a psychological conditioning?
I'll stick to my initial statement: freedom is subjective.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
OfflinexFrockx
Male User Gallery


Registered: 09/17/06
Posts: 10,455
Loc: Northeast
Last seen: 11 days, 13 hours
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7669902 - 11/23/07 11:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"You're paying school taxes because you agree to live in this society. Agreeing on that is agreeing on paying taxes.
However, nobody's forcing you to adhere to those standards, nobody's demanding you to go to school."

In Pennsylvania one has to pay school taxes regardless of whether they use the school system or not. I'm sure you're argument would be "Well, then move out!" Surely a valid counterargument, but it has nothing to do with what I am disgusted with about our society. Sure, there may be a couple places here and there where people don't have to pay taxes, and I would love to live somewhere like that, but I shouldn't have to flee my country in order to be free. I am disgusted with my society because that solution seems to be the only way out.

"You sounds like an anti drug campaign from the 70's
It ironic that someone like you, who pleads for "freedom" like Mother Teresa pleading for wold peace, are so bonded by a set of definitions, which, might I add, are all socially and culturally regalement."

You are completely missing the point of those definitions. One person may find joy in becoming rich, one may find joy in living in the wilderness, and another may find joy killing themselves, but this has nothing to do with the definition of freedom. Freedom is one's right to live as they decide, without impediment. It doesn't matter whether you're a future billionaire or a mountain man, if you have the freedom to be either, you are free.

However, in our society this is not the case. The billionaire is free to make money as he pleases, but the mountain man must pay for the land he lives on, abide by local laws regarding the consumption of illegal or endangered recourses, and he too must pay his taxes, whether he has the want or ability to do either. The mountain man must conform to his society, because otherwise, he'll be climbing trees in the prison courtyard.

"Doesn't coca cola have the freedom to exist and be sold, in the same measure as you have the freedom to revolt against it?"

Yeah, it does. I admit I was a bit obtuse in my original observations about universally eliminating commercialism. While one does have the ability to be free from coca cola, there are other aspects of our society which do not afford this freedom, and these things force us to conform in order to live outside of prison.

"Freedom is indeed subjective, and those who let themselves tied down by a set of rules will never be happy or live a healthy life. It's those people who do nothing else but bitch and complain about this world's problems instead of fixing their lives in the best way possible and actually start feeling good about it."

How do you expect someone to change something without first forming a complaint? That sounds pretty impossible to me. You've also demonstrated another strawman here. I am complaining at present, but I am not perpetually complaining. If you want to call me a whiner, you must call me a whiner at the present time. You cannot assume that I do nothing but complain.


"Doesn't the gravity take you the liberty to float?"

No, because gravity is a law of nature, not a law of man. I never will have the ability to float, barring some sort of metaphysical discovery in the future.

"What of one finds himself not free do do what he wants, because of this tragic event? Should he revolt against the Earth? Isn't it only a psychological conditioning?"

It depends on the kind of event you are talking about. If it is a natural disaster, then one doesn't have any option to change. In a way, nature does limit freedom, but it cannot be equated to the way man limits freedom. (You've used another philosophical fallacy: false analogy) Man limits freedom through social norms, laws, and hegemony. These things are not permanent like the limits of the earth itself.

"I'll stick to my initial statement: freedom is subjective."

Each person may view freedom differently, however, it is not freedom that changes, it is their life. Freedom is being allowed to live (or not live) as one pleases.


Edited by xFrockx (11/23/07 11:05 AM)


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleVeritas
 User Gallery
Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: If the world really does end in 2012, will you be dissapointed? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7669993 - 11/23/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

How, exactly, are Pennsylvania "school taxes" assessed? Perhaps by the value of your property? Do you choose to own property, knowing that you will be assessed taxes upon the value of said property?

Freedom does not mean that you get to have whatever you want, whenever you want, without consequences. It means that you can make choices, and that you will be responsible for the consequences of those choices. If you choose to be part of society, you will be responsible for the consequences of that choice. If you choose to "drop out" of society (i.e. be homeless, unemployed, etc...), you will be responsible for the consequences of that choice.

BTW, it is not illegal to commit suicide in the U.S. A handful of states still have laws against it, but they are not applied. Usually a failed suicide results in a stint in a psych ward, not criminal prosecution. Assisted suicide is still illegal, but not for the person who wants to die.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
Jump to top Pages: 1 | 2 | 3  [ show all ]

Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   North Spore North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Bulk Cannabis Seeds   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   PhytoExtractum Buy Bali Kratom Powder


Similar ThreadsPosterViewsRepliesLast post
* 2012 the end of the world
( 1 2 3 4 all )
ZippoZM 5,075 64 09/12/03 12:33 PM
by tekramrepus
* Swami's $20,012 2012 Challenge
( 1 2 3 all )
Swami 3,752 46 12/27/03 04:13 AM
by fireworks_god
* 2012 (not another one!)
( 1 2 3 4 all )
2Experimental 4,682 60 03/16/04 06:32 PM
by TheShroomHermit
* on Capital, Labor & Leadership goob 481 2 01/11/05 12:07 PM
by goob
* maybe 2012 everyone see every thing
( 1 2 3 all )
Droz 2,482 42 10/27/03 09:04 PM
by eve69
* 2012
( 1 2 all )
natethegr8t 3,830 37 05/17/06 05:32 PM
by dblaney
* expectations often lead to dissapointment
( 1 2 all )
Muppet 3,805 29 05/05/05 02:49 PM
by Icelander
* december 2012 mariasabina 804 3 01/19/02 10:42 PM
by KeepAskingTime

Extra information
You cannot start new topics / You cannot reply to topics
HTML is disabled / BBCode is enabled
Moderator: Middleman, DividedQuantum
3,157 topic views. 1 members, 11 guests and 6 web crawlers are browsing this forum.
[ Show Images Only | Sort by Score | Print Topic ]
Search this thread:

Copyright 1997-2024 Mind Media. Some rights reserved.

Generated in 0.032 seconds spending 0.005 seconds on 12 queries.