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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Might humans survive the death of Earth?
    #7663278 - 11/21/07 02:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Our planet began its journey towards inevitable death at the moment of its formation, flourishing and sustaining life in the meantime.

The Earth's core is cooling rapidly and scientists expect our planet to one day resemble Mars. Eventually, the sun will become inadequate in sustaining life in this solar system and it will burn out. At the same time, perhaps an asteroid is aiming for Earth, or maybe humans will destroy it themselves.

At our current rate, how much time do you think humans would need to advance properly in order to colonize space, other planets and other solar systems? Do you think we can make it that long without wiping ourselves out?

It's funny to think that despite all of our pride, we are as vulnerable as any other creature, and that our fate as a species is so incredibly bleak. I have hope for us, and I like to think that we will be capable of overcoming these events that are so much bigger than us.

Maybe a relative few will make it to propagate the species, or maybe we'll have massive space colonies. Maybe if technology permits, our species will be far greater in number than today and strewn across portions of the galaxy. Or maybe we'll be the same as the dinosaurs.

Humanity has incredible capacity - it's the only justification I have behind proposing these ideas.

Do you think we'll make it, how and when? Differentiate between hope, logic and probability. Try to be realistic without being overly pessimistic or optimistic.

How far do you think Human History will extend into the future?


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


Edited by elbisivni (11/21/07 03:16 PM)


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7663364 - 11/21/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Humans thrive on adversity. We'll figure something out. Rather than being occupied with the inevitable end of this solar system (taking for truth that our sun will burn out), I would be more concerned with whether the theory of 'Planet X' is true; a red dwarf sun that is supposedly headed our way.

Planet X Forecast


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Edited by WScott (11/21/07 10:01 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7663384 - 11/21/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Might humans survive the death of Earth?

Let's hope not but who can tell.:shrug:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisiblemachination
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7663412 - 11/21/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

sure


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7665163 - 11/21/07 11:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
The Earth's core is cooling rapidly and scientists expect our planet to one day resemble Mars.



it isn't cooling rapidly


Quote:

elbisivni said:
Eventually, the sun will become inadequate in sustaining life in this solar system and it will burn out.



our sun isn't going to burn out, at least not right away

since it's formation the sun has increased (not decreased) in brightness... the sun today shines much brighter than the sun than shone billions of years ago when life first appeared on this planet

eventually the oceans will boil... long before the sun is burnt out


Quote:

elbisivni said:
At the same time, perhaps an asteroid is aiming for Earth, or maybe humans will destroy it themselves.



the earth has survived huge impacts in the past, what makes you think the earth cannot survive a huge impact in the future?


Quote:

elbisivni said:
Do you think we'll make it, how and when? Differentiate between hope, logic and probability. Try to be realistic without being overly pessimistic or optimistic.



we are able to exist now and into the foreseeable future, but this window of opportunity will be finite in duration

the question is whether we can develop into a space faring species before conditions change and this becomes impossible

i certainly think it is possible, though not probable

first we must map our solar system (and later our galaxy) to discover areas where humans could live, areas with abundant sources of energy and building materials

the most efficient way to do this is through unmanned factory spacecraft, which are able to produce tools and even copies of themselves using materials found en route to or at their final destination

using this technique the exploration of our solar system (and later our galaxy) would accelerate exponentially

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_probe

once a site was chosen, an unmanned factory spacecraft would be needed to construct a building capable of supporting humans and, likely, the humans themselves

how long would this take? i would guess hundreds or thousands of years within our solar system

within our galaxy it would take much longer, perhaps hundreds of thousands of years to successfully colonize another star system

however before we can do any of that we must develop the technology i decribed... how long that would take is anyone's guess


Quote:

elbisivni said:
How far do you think Human History will extend into the future?



i think 2-4 million years since this is the average lifespan of species on earth according to paleontologists


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7665181 - 11/21/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i think a more important question is should we survive the death of earth?


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InvisibleNwerd
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7665353 - 11/22/07 12:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think that logically speaking, a few humans might survive... How many times has the Earth died and re-birthed in it's own long existence let alone our existence. All life has destructive and regenerative cycles. You and I might not make it, but I'm sure life with rebirth in strange new ways.... Now when the sun goes out... That's a different can-o-worms :smile:
Just my thoughts
P.S. How do you know that when we die, our spirits don't get reborn on some other life sustaining planet in some distant galaxy... Also, as long as humans are alive, history will exist.


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7666217 - 11/22/07 09:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I suppose the article in National Geographic might have been written in such a way as to make the body of evidence available seem to be sufficient enough to draw a few probable conclusions. But thanks for providing additional arguments.

I think that if humans are capable of surviving the death of earth then they should. There's no reason we should choose extinction over perseverance and preservation and there's no reason we should feel that it is our fate for the workings of the universe to determine our finite end when we are fully capable of utilizing or minds to our own benefit.

We might have some serious issues that could even bring end unto ourselves, but like I said I think we are an interesting species and I like to entertain the thought of space colonization. My logic tells me that our chances are 50-50 in the cosmic short-run. Maybe our act of space colonization would only even provide a slow and lonely closing chapter to the story of the human race.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7666223 - 11/22/07 09:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
At our current rate, how much time do you think humans would need to advance properly in order to colonize space, other planets and other solar systems? Do you think we can make it that long without wiping ourselves out?




My honest opinion: we will not make it off this planet. Considering how long it would take to reach any of the other 'uninhabitable' planets in our own solar system, it would take far too long to be able to design, build, test, re-test, re-test, and then actually perfect the technology. Not to mention the lack of certainty of sustainability of our new home.

Quote:

I have hope for us, and I like to think that we will be capable of overcoming these events that are so much bigger than us.




overcoming what? why do you feel like this is a challenge to be taken on or something against you which you are against?


Quote:

Humanity has incredible capacity - it's the only justification I have behind proposing these ideas.




given enough time on the evolutionary scale, every animal has the capacity to be like us or greater



Quote:

How far do you think Human History will extend into the future?




obviously, depending on if/how the local and global environments change, maybe a few hundred years; more if we find a way to end 'war'


--------------------
channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineDroz
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: demiu5]
    #7666652 - 11/22/07 11:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think war will keep us occupied for many years to come. But if we would spend like half the money we spend on war for space travel and for our chance to survive when the earth is no longer livable. I think we should prepare now for the end times. Better now then it be too late to do anything.


--------------------
Evolution of Time.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7666819 - 11/22/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

national geographic?


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InvisibleHuehuecoyotl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: Droz]
    #7667068 - 11/22/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Whether we survive the solar system or not our future concludes in death. I like to imagine our species colonizing space one day, but I am not overly optimistic about it.


--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda


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Offlinesunflower
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
    #7667078 - 11/22/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Change your shirt and you might be a little more optimistic about it!


--------------------


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Invisibleredtailedhawk
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: elbisivni]
    #7667098 - 11/22/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No. Humans are an integral part of the Earth matrix and cannot survive without it. Earth dies = people die. The only reason we think we might survive it is that in our pathology and delusion of greatness we have come to believe we are something above nature, separate from it. And even if we did somehow survive, the Universe is programmed to self-destruct (Google that fact) so there’s no escape from ultimate human demise.


--------------------

"Who are you who live in all these many forms? You're death that captures all. You too are the source of all that's gonna be born. You're glory, mercy, peace, truth. You give calm a spirit, understanding, courage, the contented heart."


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: redtailedhawk]
    #7667211 - 11/22/07 02:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i kind of feel this way too

maybe some other life form, perhaps artificially created, could colonize the universe... but humans?


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7667272 - 11/22/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if humans will colonize the Universe or not, but I am wondering what makes you think that an artificially created form of life would stand more chances.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineWScott
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7667384 - 11/22/07 03:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quit doubting your own race! We are definitely far from perfect, but look how far we've come.

First flight (Orville and Wilbur Wright) to the Moon in 50 years.


--------------------


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7667468 - 11/22/07 04:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
I don't know if humans will colonize the Universe or not, but I am wondering what makes you think that an artificially created form of life would stand more chances.




you would think that a lifeform that is engineered to survive in space would have a much higher chance to colonize the universe than a human would


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7667474 - 11/22/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To survive in space in which way?
Are you referring to the biological adaptability or what?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7667511 - 11/22/07 04:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yes

for example, the most hospitable place in our solar system (that we know of) outside of earth is mars, where we may live long enough to suffocate, perhaps ten minutes

in most other places we die in seconds or less

now imagine a body designed to survive a wide range of temperatures, pressures and radiation damage... something that could survive in space as well as it could survive at the bottom of the ocean or on the surface of the planet mercury

such a creature would be at a huge advantage in a race to colonize just our solar system, let alone the galaxy where most stars are red dwarfs quite unlike our own


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7667608 - 11/22/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, if humans are to colonize space they would most probably occupy only the planets that sustain life for them. That, or using some extra-evolved technology which would artificially transform the environment in such a manner that humans could live there.
Anyways, I think it is possible to find planets similar to ours.

Quote:

now imagine a body designed to survive a wide range of temperatures, pressures and radiation damage... something that could survive in space as well as it could survive at the bottom of the ocean or on the surface of the planet mercury

such a creature would be at a huge advantage in a race to colonize just our solar system, let alone the galaxy where most stars are red dwarfs quite unlike our own




The question is why would humans consider designing such a creature? Humans want to colonize space mainly because they fear the idea of dying or seeing their kind extinguish, and sadly curiosity is on the last place.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7668384 - 11/22/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i would do it to prevent us from ever leaving this planet, and i happen to be human i think


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Offlinedanlennon3
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7668772 - 11/23/07 12:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The earth will outlive humans, We are barely a speck of earths history :shrug:


--------------------
"Psychedelics should be used not to escape reality, but to embrace it"



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OfflineSaulGood
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: danlennon3]
    #7668806 - 11/23/07 12:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="
&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param>


--------------------
:strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard:

-When in Rome, do the Romans.


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7670149 - 11/23/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
national geographic?



www.google.com :thumbup:


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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OfflineManianFHS
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7670245 - 11/23/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Our bodies are not meant to travel long distances in outer space. Our bone starts becoming less-dense as a result of prolonged exposure to low gravity environments. Unless this (seemingly impossible) problem is solved, humankind will probably never get off the planet long enough to find another habitable one.

Theres a possibility one of the moons of saturn (?) might have the capacity to sustain life, but the move from earth to there would be very hard to accomplish. Plus in all likelyhood by the time human life realizes that were truly fucked, we probably will have used up all the necessary resources wed need to get off the planet.

I think the human race will end where it began.

At best maybe people will freeze their corpses in capsules and launch them into outer space, directed at the galaxies best predicted to have life. The will include many materials and instructions as to how to revive them, hoping that some being will come across them and bring them back to life.

I think whats cool about our planet, even though we will die alone, is that its kind of like a galactic pollinator. Our planet is unwittingly sending all kinds of bacteria into outer space. Even though the human race and life on earth will inevitably end, some of that bacteria that leaves here will find another life-sustaining planet and possibly be the cause for life on that planet.


--------------------
notapillow said: "you are going about this endeavor all wrong. clear your mind of useless fear and concern. buy the ticket, take the ride, and all that.... "

ChrisWho said: "It's all about the journey, not the destination."


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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: ManianFH]
    #7671841 - 11/23/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Assuming the current state of affairs, I think our race will probably perish as soon as someone invents a nanomachine that can function as a weapon. Billions of virus-sized machines turning all of us back into the carbon we were originally brought up from.

Who knows though, maybe just as our bodies return to the collective matter of the universe, so will our consciousness.

I really like that pollination idea too. With that one has to consider the possibility that there may already be humans outside of earth. There are so many planets in the universe that it is perfectly possible that somewhere out there there is another planet that supports life just as ours, and through some miracle of chance there are humans that evolved there.


Edited by xFrockx (11/23/07 06:40 PM)


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OfflineSaulGood
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Re: Might humans survive the death of Earth? [Re: xFrockx]
    #7671860 - 11/23/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:

Who knows though, maybe just as our bodies return to the collective matter of the universe, so will our consciousness.




I've had that exact same thought before.


--------------------
:strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard::strokebeard:

-When in Rome, do the Romans.


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