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OfflineHotnuts
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Portobello's
    #7659076 - 11/20/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Gill fragments were taken from a mushroom I bought at the grocery store and applied to a salt treated agar to cut down on the bacteria while they grew out. Substrate is compost, spawn was wild bird seed and casing was peat/lime.

[image][/image]

The soon to be isolate.

[image][/image]


Edited by Hotnuts (11/20/07 01:30 PM)


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InvisibleMankey
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7659137 - 11/20/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Very cool! Even though they're so common I think portabellos are beautiful.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Mankey]
    #7659408 - 11/20/07 03:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

They are common as hell and cheap at the store, but I thought I may as well have a Portobello isolate in my library. :gethigh:


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7660136 - 11/20/07 06:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm trying the same but until now my attemp is unsuccessful. probably the mushroom is too old.


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Re: Portobello's [Re: x7x_x7x]
    #7660208 - 11/20/07 06:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's just beautiful.I wonder if I could grow some?


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Portobello's [Re: MUSHR00M]
    #7660617 - 11/20/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

very nice!

-Graham


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OfflineRogerRabbitM
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7660676 - 11/20/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nice. Did you make the compost? If so, what was in it?
RR


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Portobello's [Re: RogerRabbit]
    #7660730 - 11/20/07 09:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks.

I make my own compost. I use 150lbs. of horse stall litter with 10lbs. of dry blood or blood meal added for nitrogen. Works great!


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7660741 - 11/20/07 09:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

nice

how long are you composting it?

-Graham


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7660748 - 11/20/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It's usually done in 3 weeks at the most. When the core's cool, the pile's done. Here's some information on composting I compiled.

http://forums.mycotopia.net/compost-manure-dung-worm-castings/25813-making-premium-mushroom-compost-easy-way.html#post437397


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7661815 - 11/21/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I ordered a portobello kit but it hasn't shipped yet :frown:
when it does come, I am going to grow some mycelium out on agar isolate and keep a master slant .
Great job Hotnuts it looks tasty ! throw that sucker on the BBQ!


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Re: Portobello's [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7663063 - 11/21/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I saw that portobellos and button mushies give tumors throughout the body


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OfflineMUSHR00M
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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7663760 - 11/21/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Shit.......


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7663790 - 11/21/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
I saw that portobellos and button mushies give tumors throughout the body




Source please? If you're referring to agaratine, which is a (probably) carcinogenic molecule found in Agaricus species mushrooms, I've never heard that it spreads tumors throughout the body, that seems a bit alarmist. in fact, I doubt there are any verified incidences where agaratine alone caused tumors in humans...

Also with the recent research into ergothinine (sp?), as well as the old research with selenium for prostate cancer prevention, and the new transgenic mushroom research, the scales are tipping...

JD


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OfflineMUSHR00M
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7663886 - 11/21/07 05:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

He's just fucking around.At least I hope.


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Offlineabesh
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Re: Portobello's [Re: MUSHR00M]
    #7664335 - 11/21/07 06:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)




He says towards the end of this video. (Around -1:40 or 6:30 on youtube)

But I think he has some kind of personal agenda for saying it, just does not sound true, or I think it would be more common knowledge.


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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: Portobello's [Re: abesh]
    #7665392 - 11/22/07 01:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

abesh said:



He says towards the end of this video. (Around -1:40 or 6:30 on youtube)

thats the video. he seems like a smart guy, I wouldnt think hes lying.

But I think he has some kind of personal agenda for saying it, just does not sound true, or I think it would be more common knowledge.




thats the video


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Edited by legallyhomeless (11/22/07 01:29 AM)


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Offlineabesh
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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7666272 - 11/22/07 09:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Paul Stamets said:



Quote:

Button mushrooms are thought by many experts to be highly carcinogenic when they are digested, which can cause tumors and abnormal cell division. There is [or it is] a unique chemical that is in button mushrooms and portabellas, they are very much synonyms [I think that is the word] to smoking a cigarette, it is guaranteed to cause tumors all over your body, as opposed to just in your lungs.





This is as accurate as I could get it to be, and I put the punctuations where I thought they ought to be.


Edited by abesh (11/22/07 09:25 AM)


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: Portobello's [Re: abesh]
    #7666676 - 11/22/07 11:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I've heard him mention that as well, but it's rather far fetched imo. At least to the point were the mushroom causes these problems among human beings. Most of the studies that have been done on this topic were on rats.


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7666854 - 11/22/07 12:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have not seen that video, Very nice!

-Graham


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7666924 - 11/22/07 12:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow, well he sure enough said that. Man, I just don't know what his source is for saying that. I've read a lot fo the papers on pubmed, and I just do not know about that.

In fact I just found this there. 2 sides to every story?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17504192&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Agaritine and its derivatives are potential inhibitors against HIV proteases.

Gao WN, Wei DQ, Li Y, Gao H, Xu WR, Li AX, Chou KC.
College of Life Science and Technology, Shanghai Jiaotong University, 800 Donglin Road, Minhang District, Shanghai, China.

Agaritine, or beta-N-[gamma-L(+)-glutamyl]-4-hydroxymethylphenylhydrazine, is a Chinese herbal medicine, known having the antiviral and anticancer function. However, so far no reports whatsoever have been made for its potential as an anti-HIV agent. It was observed by docking experiments for more than 9,000 compounds extracted from various Chinese medicines that the compound agaritine distinguished itself from all the others in binding to the HIV protease with the most favorable free energy. Based on this, a series of derivatives were generated by modifying agaritine. It has been observed thru an extensive docking study that some of agaritine derivatives had markedly stronger binding interaction with the HIV protease than agaritine, suggesting that these derivatives might be good candidates for developing drugs for AIDS therapy.

PMID: 17504192 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


Also it is not very stable of a molecule and degrades quickly after the time of harvest. It further degrades if the mushrooms are prepared in any fashion (soaked, boiled, baked, fried, etc...). See this article

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=12396396&ordinalpos=7&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Influence of storage and household processing on the agaritine content of the cultivated Agaricus mushroom.

Interestingly enough, it appears that agaritine causes cancer in mice, but not rats...

Fate of the mushroom hydrazine agaritine in the rat and mouse.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=10965520&ordinalpos=10&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

More evidence of the ridiculousness of the statement...

Failure of the cultivated mushroom (Agaricus bisporus) to induce tumors in the A/J mouse lung tumor model.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=9570389&ordinalpos=12&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Also check this out;
Genotoxicity of agaritine in the lacI transgenic mouse mutation assay: evaluation of the health risk of mushroom consumption.

Of the mushroom diets, significant effects were seen only with the crude agaritine extract: it induced an increase in MF of 100% in the kidney and 50% in the forestomach. The other two A. bisporus diets, with lower agaritine doses, showed slightly but not significantly, raised MF values in the kidney alone. Thus, agaritine was weakly genotoxic in vivo; no genotoxic activity other than that attributable to agaritine was detected in A. bisporus.

the rest here;
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=7737599&ordinalpos=16&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

And really the list goes on and on...
Lack of carcinogenicity of agaritine by subcutaneous administration in mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=6539423&ordinalpos=25&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

So the jury is still out as far as I'm concerned. Really any mushrooms growing in a contaminated environment (from agri-chemicals, air pollution, heavy metals contaminations, etc...) could be really bad for you. So a lot of the benefits and dangers of mushrooms are modulated by so many factors.

It's a balancing act to maximize the benefits and minimize exposures to toxins as much as possible.


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Offlineabesh
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Re: Portobello's [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7667166 - 11/22/07 02:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Cool I read most of the articles, but did not understand shit.

So cooking reduces Agaritine huh. and that is what they (who ever they is) say is responsible for tumors??

I think Paul just said that as those are the commonly available mushrooms, and he cultivates all these other crazy mushrooms so his is the best.

Kind of like an insurance company saying their web-site will give you their rates and the rates of their competitors... ya right.


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Re: Portobello's [Re: abesh]
    #7667960 - 11/22/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

abesh said:
I think Paul just said that as those are the commonly available mushrooms, and he cultivates all these other crazy mushrooms so his is the best.

Kind of like an insurance company saying their web-site will give you their rates and the rates of their competitors... ya right.




Well said :mushroom2:


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7669352 - 11/23/07 07:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To be honest; if there were any sound information or data relating the mushrooms in question to cancers, i'd think the FDA would be more likely to step in and take a look at this further. IMO the entire topic is highly over rated.


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7676018 - 11/24/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The FDA? Riiiight. Like how they let meat from tumorous animals and animals with infected cuts to be sold as grade A, and allowing puss in they milk sold to consumers.


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OfflineCryogenicz
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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7676053 - 11/24/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

now thats pure nasty.

Who wants a steak and glass of milk???

-Graham


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Cryogenicz]
    #7676124 - 11/24/07 09:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cryogenicz said:
now thats pure nasty.

Who wants a steak and glass of milk???

-Graham




No one I know haha


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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7676324 - 11/24/07 10:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

legallyhomeless said:
The FDA? Riiiight. Like how they let meat from tumorous animals and animals with infected cuts to be sold as grade A, and allowing puss in they milk sold to consumers.




That's b.s. Let's keep the thread on track please.


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7676340 - 11/24/07 10:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Funny how you can bunk something you have no knowledge on :thumbup: Ive been a vegetarian almost my entire life. And No not one of thoes crazy ones that would save a drowning dog before a baby. RESEARCH my friend. Thats why we are all here.


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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7677240 - 11/25/07 09:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have complete knowledge on this. My mother's entire family are steer and dairy farmers. :rolleyes:


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7678146 - 11/25/07 02:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:thumbup: great. PM me if u want to continue this discussion


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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #7680142 - 11/25/07 10:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hotnuts, did you do anything speceil to get the spores to germinate on the agar? Was the salt added to aid germination?


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Re: Portobello's [Re: tahoe]
    #7680185 - 11/25/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Using gill fragments from a somewhat live specimen allows for an easy culturing. I have heard that spores from Agaricus species can be tricky to germinate on agar. I think it was Workman that stated to try to generate biological activity in the plate along with the spores in order to trigger Agaricus germination? I can't remember who it was, but I think it was Workman. The live gill fragments give you that activity. I would've cloned the mushroom, but that would be cheating. :wink: I'd rather work for my own isolate to be honest.

The salt was added to the agar to limit the contaminates from the gill fragments that were used from a specimen that was purchased in the wide open. No container, just a heap of mushrooms in the produce aisle.


Edited by Hotnuts (11/26/07 06:57 AM)


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Re: Portobello's [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7680664 - 11/26/07 05:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Stupid question: So you mix some salt while preparing the agar?
And how much salt?

Also where would one get blood meal?
I would guess maybe like a farm supply store but just want to be sure rather than go there and look stupid. :crazy:


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Re: Portobello's [Re: abesh]
    #7680737 - 11/26/07 06:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

1ml of non-iodized salt/100ml of water. The salt helps keep the bacteria down.

Farm supply stores and even places like Lowes or HD carry it. Most stores with a garden section in them will propably have it.


Edited by Hotnuts (11/26/07 07:03 AM)


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Re: Portobello's [Re: legallyhomeless]
    #28329455 - 05/22/23 02:18 AM (8 months, 4 days ago)

Paul Stamets agreed, only if eaten RAW. Cook all mushrooms on high heat recommended


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