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ShroomDoom
Friend of the Medicine



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Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe.
#7657947 - 11/20/07 06:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.telegraph.co.uk/core/Content/displayPrintable.jhtml?xml=/earth/2007/11/14/scisurf114.xml&site=30&page=0 An impoverished surfer has drawn up a new theory of the universe, seen by some as the Holy Grail of physics, which has received rave reviews from scientists.
Garrett Lisi, 39, has a doctorate but no university affiliation and spends most of the year surfing in Hawaii, where he has also been a hiking guide and bridge builder (when he slept in a jungle yurt).
In winter, he heads to the mountains near Lake Tahoe, Nevada, where he snowboards. "Being poor sucks," Lisi says. "It's hard to figure out the secrets of the universe when you're trying to figure out where you and your girlfriend are going to sleep next month."
Despite this unusual career path, his proposal is remarkable because, by the arcane standards of particle physics, it does not require highly complex mathematics.
Even better, it does not require more than one dimension of time and three of space, when some rival theories need ten or even more spatial dimensions and other bizarre concepts. And it may even be possible to test his theory, which predicts a host of new particles, perhaps even using the new Large Hadron Collider atom smasher that will go into action near Geneva next year.
Although the work of 39 year old Garrett Lisi still has a way to go to convince the establishment, let alone match the achievements of Albert Einstein, the two do have one thing in common: Einstein also began his great adventure in theoretical physics while outside the mainstream scientific establishment, working as a patent officer, though failed to achieve the Holy Grail, an overarching explanation to unite all the particles and forces of the cosmos. advertisement
Now Lisi, currently in Nevada, has come up with a proposal to do this. Lee Smolin at the Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Waterloo, Ontario, Canada, describes Lisi's work as "fabulous". "It is one of the most compelling unification models I've seen in many, many years," he says.
"Although he cultivates a bit of a surfer-guy image its clear he has put enormous effort and time into working the complexities of this structure out over several years," Prof Smolin tells The Telegraph.
"Some incredibly beautiful stuff falls out of Lisi's theory," adds David Ritz Finkelstein at the Georgia Institute of Technology, Atlanta. "This must be more than coincidence and he really is touching on something profound." # Is this the fabric of the universe? # Are we missing a dimension of time? # Parallel universe proof boosts time travel hopes
The new theory reported today in New Scientist has been laid out in an online paper entitled "An Exceptionally Simple Theory of Everything" by Lisi, who completed his doctorate in theoretical physics in 1999 at the University of California, San Diego.
He has high hopes that his new theory could provide what he says is a "radical new explanation" for the three decade old Standard Model, which weaves together three of the four fundamental forces of nature: the electromagnetic force; the strong force, which binds quarks together in atomic nuclei; and the weak force, which controls radioactive decay.
The reason for the excitement is that Lisi's model also takes account of gravity, a force that has only successfully been included by a rival and highly fashionable idea called string theory, one that proposes particles are made up of minute strings, which is highly complex and elegant but has lacked predictions by which to do experiments to see if it works.
But some are taking a cooler view. Prof Marcus du Sautoy, of Oxford University and author of Finding Moonshine, told the Telegraph: "The proposal in this paper looks a long shot and there seem to be a lot things still to fill in."
And a colleague Eric Weinstein in America added: "Lisi seems like a hell of a guy. I'd love to meet him. But my friend Lee Smolin is betting on a very very long shot."
Lisi's inspiration lies in the most elegant and intricate shape known to mathematics, called E8 - a complex, eight-dimensional mathematical pattern with 248 points first found in 1887, but only fully understood by mathematicians this year after workings, that, if written out in tiny print, would cover an area the size of Manhattan.
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lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: ShroomDoom]
#7660914 - 11/20/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i can't fucking wait for the large hadron collider
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MistaUNGA
green crack GREEN CRACK!!



Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 1,519
Loc: Kalifornien, im Süden...
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Page 2:
Quote:
E8 encapsulates the symmetries of a geometric object that is 57-dimensional and is itself is 248-dimensional. Lisi says "I think our universe is this beautiful shape." # The answer to the universe and everything? # Trapped rainbow heralds computer revolution # How About That: Unusual, funny and bizarre stories
What makes E8 so exciting is that Nature also seems to have embedded it at the heart of many bits of physics. One interpretation of why we have such a quirky list of fundamental particles is because they all result from different facets of the strange symmetries of E8. advertisement
Lisi's breakthrough came when he noticed that some of the equations describing E8's structure matched his own. "My brain exploded with the implications and the beauty of the thing," he tells New Scientist. "I thought: 'Holy crap, that's it!'"
What Lisi had realised was that he could find a way to place the various elementary particles and forces on E8's 248 points. What remained was 20 gaps which he filled with notional particles, for example those that some physicists predict to be associated with gravity.
Physicists have long puzzled over why elementary particles appear to belong to families, but this arises naturally from the geometry of E8, he says. So far, all the interactions predicted by the complex geometrical relationships inside E8 match with observations in the real world. "How cool is that?" he says.
The crucial test of Lisi's work will come only when he has made testable predictions. Lisi is now calculating the masses that the 20 new particles should have, in the hope that they may be spotted when the Large Hadron Collider starts up.
"The theory is very young, and still in development," he told the Telegraph. "Right now, I'd assign a low (but not tiny) likelyhood to this prediction.
"For comparison, I think the chances are higher that LHC will see some of these particles than it is that the LHC will see superparticles, extra dimensions, or micro black holes as predicted by string theory. I hope to get more (and different) predictions, with more confidence, out of this E8 Theory over the next year, before the LHC comes online."
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Madtowntripper said:Or just give her a cloroform soaked rag and tell her it's ether!
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: ShroomDoom]
#7661425 - 11/21/07 01:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I suppose this could inspire a lot of people:

I don't feel too great about the lhc. Big power + big mistake = big accident.
And people make big mistakes all the time.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/21/07 01:27 AM)
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cube talk
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7661593 - 11/21/07 04:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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so, basically, he put down everything i already figured to be true.
He just has substantial evidence to back it up unlike me heh.
Thats a great find, this, in due time, could turn out to be huge.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: MistaUNGA]
#7662118 - 11/21/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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E8
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



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Posts: 10,447
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: ShroomDoom]
#7662467 - 11/21/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The universe is like a wave, man...
Anyone know where we can read his thesis?
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Cheezit
Feel like aStranger

Registered: 10/19/07
Posts: 843
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: elbisivni]
#7662807 - 11/21/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
elbisivni said: E8
Looks like people holding hands.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Ego Death]
#7664456 - 11/21/07 07:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Ego Death said: The universe is like a wave, man...
Anyone know where we can read his thesis?
http://arxiv.org/pdf/0711.0770
Good luck.
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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WScott
´ ɑ `▽ ᑲᓇᑕ



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: elbisivni]
#7664543 - 11/21/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I find it very interesting that it is the Flower of Life. Not the E8 thing, but on page 5 of the pdf.
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: elbisivni]
#7665872 - 11/22/07 07:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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machination
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Ego Death]
#7666229 - 11/22/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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mathematics will take you to within an inch of infinity only to repel you from it
-------------------- "Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."
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truekimbo2
Cya later, friends.



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Posts: 9,234
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: machination]
#7669176 - 11/23/07 04:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i am very scared of mathmaticians.
we see fractals and grids and mandalas and so on and we're like "whoa dude, i'm seeing infinity bro"
mathmaticians have like a hundred thousand sets of patterns like that in their head and they know how they inter-relate and how they relate to real life and so and and so on. they're fucking scarey. i can barely handle a single large pattern, while they're juggling tons of them.
also i don't know shit and my brain hurts after 10 seconds of reading about math, these people spend their lives doing it!
math makes dmt look like ginger beer.
-------------------- You can check the last post in my journal for contact info.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: elbisivni]
#7673518 - 11/24/07 04:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
elbisivni said: E8
That is one of the most beautiful things I have ever seen.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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CidneyIndole
www.shroomery.OG



Registered: 05/16/05
Posts: 4,761
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: WScott]
#7673521 - 11/24/07 04:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
WScottsdale said: I find it very interesting that it is the Flower of Life. Not the E8 thing, but on page 5 of the pdf.
And yes... I haven't had the chance to read through it yet, but I did note what you're talking about.
I have been hopeful about string theory for quite a while. While I by no means understand the math involved, some aspects of string theory seem elegant, and much of it just seems right to me, in the way that you feel right when faced with a profound truth.
I also like the fact that many ideas coming from string theory perfectly mirror what has been said in mysticism for millenia.
On the other hand, seeing sacred geometry as the basis of this guy's theory is VERY interesting. I'm going to have to wrap my brain around this and see what there is too it.
I am not sure I can ever be convinced, however, that there are NOT many other dimensions of space.
-------------------- ------------------------ I am me. We are You.
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eve69
--=..Did Adam and ...?=--



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: CidneyIndole]
#7695544 - 11/29/07 04:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Has elements of the Sri Yantra
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Luminous Numinous
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BURNER AND TRIPPER Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: ShroomDoom]
#11867910 - 01/20/10 06:20 PM (14 years, 11 days ago) |
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Everyone makes a big deal about homeboy being a surfer, but the fact that he drops acid and goes to Burning Man is more telling if you ask me. http://www.luminousnuminous.com/blog/?p=1137
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Istigkeit
Good Vibrations



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Posts: 2,428
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Re: BURNER AND TRIPPER Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Luminous Numinous]
#11868357 - 01/20/10 07:37 PM (14 years, 11 days ago) |
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First off- best article(s) ever! I am going to get E8 tattooed on me! Second, where does it say he drops acid ?
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Istigkeit
Good Vibrations



Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,428
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Re: BURNER AND TRIPPER Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Luminous Numinous]
#11868400 - 01/20/10 07:42 PM (14 years, 11 days ago) |
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Who was the first to "discover" the E8?
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Pancakes
Yogi


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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: truekimbo2]
#11868501 - 01/20/10 07:54 PM (14 years, 11 days ago) |
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Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i am very scared of mathmaticians.
we see fractals and grids and mandalas and so on and we're like "whoa dude, i'm seeing infinity bro"
mathmaticians have like a hundred thousand sets of patterns like that in their head and they know how they inter-relate and how they relate to real life and so and and so on. they're fucking scarey. i can barely handle a single large pattern, while they're juggling tons of them.
also i don't know shit and my brain hurts after 10 seconds of reading about math, these people spend their lives doing it!
math makes dmt look like ginger beer.
QFT I love it!
-------------------- Above all things the flights and sublime ecstasies of the soul cannot submit to the statements of any church or any creed. - Walt Whitman
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akira_akuma
Φύσις κρύπτεσθαι ὕψιστος φιλεῖ


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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Pancakes]
#11870122 - 01/21/10 12:48 AM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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oooooh i get it. 
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dummy
I am you and what I see is me


Registered: 09/29/08
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Pancakes]
#11871297 - 01/21/10 10:11 AM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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Quote:
Pancakes said:
Quote:
truekimbo2 said: i am very scared of mathmaticians.
we see fractals and grids and mandalas and so on and we're like "whoa dude, i'm seeing infinity bro"
mathmaticians have like a hundred thousand sets of patterns like that in their head and they know how they inter-relate and how they relate to real life and so and and so on. they're fucking scarey. i can barely handle a single large pattern, while they're juggling tons of them.
also i don't know shit and my brain hurts after 10 seconds of reading about math, these people spend their lives doing it!
math makes dmt look like ginger beer.
QFT I love it!
i'm not mathematician but i've studied up to linear algebra and i feel the exact opposite. math is a walk in the park compared to dmt. math isn't that bad, it's all practice practice practice.
-------------------- People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: dummy]
#11871445 - 01/21/10 10:43 AM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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In the vast ocean of math linear algebra is just the kiddie pool.
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Istigkeit
Good Vibrations



Registered: 11/26/09
Posts: 2,428
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11872992 - 01/21/10 02:39 PM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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What they teach in high schools math wise is bullshit- all this pointless made up shit turns you off of it
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stereolab
Wizard



Registered: 06/08/09
Posts: 941
Loc: NY
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Istigkeit]
#11873169 - 01/21/10 03:08 PM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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Gnarly theory dude!
-------------------- Space is the Place
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Istigkeit
Good Vibrations



Registered: 11/26/09
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: stereolab]
#11873194 - 01/21/10 03:11 PM (14 years, 10 days ago) |
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Yeah- I hated geometery so I said the teacher- "So what, this is just some order or system that is made up by humans and we are just supposed to solve the puzzle?"
and she said "...Yeah!"
They don't get the true beauty of math!
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dummy
I am you and what I see is me


Registered: 09/29/08
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11924829 - 01/29/10 02:52 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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why is there a pool in the ocean?
-------------------- People never seem to know what they least suspect is coming next.
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Chronic7
Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 13,679
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: machination]
#11924874 - 01/29/10 02:58 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
machination said: mathematics will take you to within an inch of infinity only to repel you from it


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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: dummy]
#11924876 - 01/29/10 02:59 PM (14 years, 2 days ago) |
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Quote:
dummy said: why is there a pool in the ocean?
Its for the kiddies.
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2859558484
Growery is Better



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11951787 - 02/02/10 11:31 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



Registered: 12/02/08
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: 2859558484]
#11954307 - 02/03/10 01:16 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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He did a talk on this for Ted back in October. Kind of cool how he explains it, makes sense and the math is sound...
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/garrett_lisi_on_his_theory_of_everything.html
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Saidin]
#11954348 - 02/03/10 01:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Kind of cool how he explains it, makes sense and the math is sound...
Unfortunately for him that is not sufficient for his hypothesis to become a scientific theory.
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11957786 - 02/03/10 09:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said:
Quote:
Kind of cool how he explains it, makes sense and the math is sound...
Unfortunately for him that is not sufficient for his hypothesis to become a scientific theory.
Its been sufficient for every other cosmological theory so far...
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Saidin]
#11957900 - 02/03/10 09:26 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Nope, every other cosmological theory has passed the test of experiment and observation. They have quantitative, predicitive and descriptive power that surpasses the theories before them. That is what is required in science, otherwise you are just doing mathematics.
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Arcanum
I'M BACK!



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Posts: 871
Loc:
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Re: BURNER AND TRIPPER Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Luminous Numinous]
#11958212 - 02/03/10 10:13 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Luminous Numinous said: Everyone makes a big deal about homeboy being a surfer, but the fact that he drops acid and goes to Burning Man is more telling if you ask me. http://www.luminousnuminous.com/blog/?p=1137
That article says nothing about acid or LSD, but I can't get a good look at it because it keeps redirecting me to something about a Chinese Sex museum.
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11962226 - 02/04/10 02:35 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Nope, every other cosmological theory has passed the test of experiment and observation. They have quantitative, predicitive and descriptive power that surpasses the theories before them. That is what is required in science, otherwise you are just doing mathematics.
Right...
Like the Big Bang "Theory" that has had to constantly invent new invisible forces like dark matter and dark energy in order to explain itself...
And please tell me of the experiments that have been done to verify cosmological theory. Observation yes, experiments...not so much.
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Saidin]
#11963014 - 02/04/10 04:37 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Dark matter and dark energy are not forces.
The difference between observations and experiment is moot, they are each observations.
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aghorrorag
NonExistent



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11963471 - 02/04/10 05:50 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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i read the article and i still dont get what his theory is?
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: aghorrorag]
#11968052 - 02/05/10 10:38 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
DieCommie said: Dark matter and dark energy are not forces.
The difference between observations and experiment is moot, they are each observations.
Fine lets call them aspects (the two most major ones) of the gravatational model of the Universe. Semantics aside it still means that cosmologists are 94% in the dark (ie guessing) about what makes up our universe. Sounds like a pretty insufficient theory to me.
The difference between observation and experiment is far from moot. Might as well say that the difference between religion and science is moot, they are each ways of explaining the universe.
Besides there are other theories whose "observations" explain things much better without having to constantly invent things in order to fit their theory.
Quote:
aghorrorag said: i read the article and i still dont get what his theory is?
Watch the Ted video I posted above, it does a pretty good job of explaining it.
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Saidin]
#11968365 - 02/05/10 11:32 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Quote:
Semantics aside it still means that cosmologists are 94% in the dark (ie guessing) about what makes up our universe. Sounds like a pretty insufficient theory to me.
That may be, but surfer dude's theory does not provide any superior ability (at least not yet). And no, its not guessing... but that is a topic of another subject.
Quote:
The difference between observation and experiment is far from moot. Might as well say that the difference between religion and science is moot, they are each ways of explaining the universe.
Ha, you just compared it to religion vs science with no explanation at all. Ill explain why the difference is moot. If I want to find a law of gravity I can sit under a tree and wait for an apple to fall and observe what happens. Or I can set up an experiment and drop an apple and then observe what happens. It doesnt matter which way I do it - they are each observations. If I want to find out how nature behaves when particles collide I can look into space and find particles that are colliding and observe what happens. I could also build a collider experiment and then observe what happens. In each case they are observations. There is no real difference between observations and experiment.
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 360
Loc: In between my thoughts
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11969503 - 02/05/10 02:02 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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I made an analogy, and an apt one to counter your statement that there is no difference between passive and active observation.
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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DieCommie

Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: Saidin]
#11970674 - 02/05/10 05:08 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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Im not sure how you are defining those terms precisely, but from what I can infer here I will say there is no such thing as passive observation in science. You can never quietly observe some system without interacting with it - the observer is always part of the system.
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DeadHearts


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 21,827
Loc: MICHIGAN
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11971054 - 02/05/10 06:00 PM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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DieCommie said:
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Semantics aside it still means that cosmologists are 94% in the dark (ie guessing) about what makes up our universe. Sounds like a pretty insufficient theory to me.
That may be, but surfer dude's theory does not provide any superior ability (at least not yet). And no, its not guessing... but that is a topic of another subject.
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The difference between observation and experiment is far from moot. Might as well say that the difference between religion and science is moot, they are each ways of explaining the universe.
Ha, you just compared it to religion vs science with no explanation at all. Ill explain why the difference is moot. If I want to find a law of gravity I can sit under a tree and wait for an apple to fall and observe what happens. Or I can set up an experiment and drop an apple and then observe what happens. It doesnt matter which way I do it - they are each observations. If I want to find out how nature behaves when particles collide I can look into space and find particles that are colliding and observe what happens. I could also build a collider experiment and then observe what happens. In each case they are observations. There is no real difference between observations and experiment.
^^^ this guy is the smartest person in the world. Listen to what he has to say bwhaha whatever.
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Saidin
Sun Dragon



Registered: 12/02/08
Posts: 360
Loc: In between my thoughts
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
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Re: Surfer Dude Praised By Physicists for his Theory of the Universe. [Re: DieCommie]
#11973386 - 02/06/10 01:22 AM (13 years, 11 months ago) |
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DieCommie said: Im not sure how you are defining those terms precisely, but from what I can infer here I will say there is no such thing as passive observation in science. You can never quietly observe some system without interacting with it - the observer is always part of the system.
Ahh, so therefore there is no objective reality? Now we are getting somewhere.
We are talking differences of degree. I concede that looking at the sky, and doing particle collisions are both forms of observation. But to say that there is no real or meaningful difference is the same as saying that there is no difference between religion and science as they both try to explain the universe though thier own form of observation.
There is no real difference between 1 and 100, they are both numbers... No real difference between love and hate, they are both emotions...
etc. etc.. etc...
In any case it is a pointless argument and has nothing to do any longer with this thread.
I know from my own experience that I see that E8 pattern everywhere when I am on LSD or Pharmahuasca, long long before I knew what it was or what mathmatical perfection it is.
-------------------- What, you ask, was the beginning of it all? And it is this... Existence that multiplied itself For sheer delight of being And plunged into numberless trillions of forms So that it might Find Itself Innumerably. -Sri Aubobindo
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