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fahtster
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Posts: 9,270
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growing clean prints in a cleanbag. 1
#7656684 - 11/19/07 08:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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hey there shroomerites. I have a tek that I've been developing over at 'topia and I thought I might share it with you. I think the tek has extreme potential esp. for retrieving spores from hard to get cubes like PE and the albinos. heres the quoted thread from 'topia.
Quote:
hey hey,
okay, so everyone remember this shamfest? http://forums.mycotopia.net/mushroom-spores-microscopy-shroom-biology/9813-lab-sterile-prints-clones-fruits-home-cheap-merged.html lol weeeeeellll... I never stopped working on it. I think the idea has extreme potential. I've been modifying over and over for over a year now. working on it off and on.. well.. I think I finally got the right ticket (as my pops would say when he took me to the dogtrack. lol) same basic idea... growing fruits in sterile environment and printing in that same environment... pretty much obtaining clean prints indefinitely. Now i know some will say that there are holes in the tek (pun intended there). The oven bag is not guaranteed to be hole free. I'm sure there are a few microscopic holes here and there, BUT thats still a thousand times safer than open air printing. not to mention the fruits are contained within that inner container (see pics below) until printing. okay....
basic layout: the big advance of this to the early versions is a variation of hips airport (thanks a million my good friend, couldn't have done it without that technology )... basically a syringe is stuffed tightly with polyfil and inverted... then attached to bag and a tube is put onto the needle attachment on the syringe and that is attached to a fishtank bubbler.. fills the bag up in under 10 min. I can walk away and it does the work for me. How do I get the air out, you may ask? well thats simple... I suck it out. lol thats what the other syringe stuffed with polyfil is for... the needle end is cut off and I just put a sock over the opening (the sock is to keep polyfil particles out of my lungs ***very important***)... I can suck all the air out of the bag in about four big inhales... the whole FAE takes about 15 min. of my time a day... about the time it takes me to exchange my big bins... no biggie... this was what was holding me back in the early versions. The next big addition is the glove... not only is this a FC , it's also a freakin glovebox ha! you only need one due to how easy it is to work from outside the bag... I can pop that top off the container without having to use the glove at all... which is what I do twice a day like a normal FC . Everything I need to grow and print goes in the bag before I put the glove on the opening of the bag.
whats in the bag?? 1. a container with substrate.. it's thin.. I'm trying to get prints, not weight... so lots of little fruits is just fine for this project. 2. a jar with a faht lid on it that stays on until I'm printing so no matter if there is a few tiny holes in the bag, any nasties still can't get into the printing jar... this jar hangs out inside the glove for room sake 3. inside the foil pouch on top of the container is a scissors for cutting caps and two tiny washers covered in nail polish (thanks again hip!!!!!) and thats it... like I said this is all put in prior to PC'ing.. so everything in the bag is sterilized. along with those two syringes I mentioned earlier, there is also a selfhealing inoc port attached to the bag... so...
I PC the whole spiel, then I blow the bag up with the fishtank bubbler... remove the top of the container, and inoc thru the inoc port... I just use an entire syringe worth of myc water that I inoc on the outsides of the sub (thats why the fruits are starting from the outside, that was the first part colonized.. on the next one I'm going to inoc the center too.) Then after it's colonized, I exchange the air twice a day and the fruits grow like normal looking fruits, only they are freakin squeaky clean. they are almost ready to print!!! as you can see... they will be printed to the inside of that jar and those two washers with be placed in the jar after printing is done... can anyone guess what these washers are for?? I'm going to use a magnet on the outside of the jar to scrape the spores off into the water that i'm going to inject thru the selfhealing port on the lid and then retrieve the spore water to make syringes. this tek was also inspired by the idea that I want to be able to "flood" PE caps to get their spores safely without having to worry about contams.. thats to come tho.. I just wanted to make sure I can print first.. this is still coming about but I don't see any reason why it won't work from here on out. stay tuned!! heres the pics...
heres the whole shibang:

here it is five days after inoc.. I actually held the feeder syringe over the exposed brf when I aired out.. just to test the polyfil syringe for filtering capabilities

here it is after full colonization about 10 days later..

but then fate shit in my face when the sub-strain that I used (tex) for this bag came out to be sporeless. lol but at least I know they can be grown.. there they are.. look at all those sporeless fruits! bastids! I could of had all those prints safely stored in an extraction jar ready for making into syringes... I figure I can get at least 5-8 syringes per print, probably more... thats times (however many prints are in there.. 28 is what I counted.) 

it's been dubbed the fahtsack. 
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (11/19/07 08:33 PM)
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total
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7656711 - 11/19/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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lol...abit too much trouble for me...glovebox turned upside down, printing done on the lid...and some polyfil for air exchange has never done me wrong...
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total
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7656719 - 11/19/07 08:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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btw...i was in no what way dissin your method...dont get me wrong...wayyy tooo many
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7656728 - 11/19/07 08:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah, I know it looks like a bit much, but the inspiration for the idea is get PE spores safely since they don't like to print very well, thats what the flooding of the caps is all about.. still have to see if it works but I can't foresee and problems yet.. so far, so good.. still in the developmental stages... and if you can make 200 syringes and KNOW every one is as clean as a whistle... why not?  no offense taken.. I know it looks crazy, but I just see this awesome potential at the end of the tunnel, ya know?
faht
Edited by fahtster (11/19/07 08:43 PM)
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7656739 - 11/19/07 08:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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absolutely...how do you mist that shit? or is it the same idea as a monotub?
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7656756 - 11/19/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well I keep that lid on the tupperware container.. I just wiggle it off from the outside of the bag.. being careful not to rip the bag, oven bags are pretty tough, then suck the air out via that cut stuffed syringe.. then just fill it up with the pump and other stuffed syringe that the tube fits on.. then replace the lid.. it keeps it's own humidity inside that little container.. so really, the only time the bag is completely being used is during the transfer of the cap to the printing jar since that lid stays on the jar until the time of printing.. thinking I could even do a 2nd flush for more prints... just squirt some water in there thru the selfhealing port. and go for a second... could get like 8 more prints or something.. worth it. 
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (11/19/07 08:55 PM)
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7656778 - 11/19/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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cool deal...im gonna start dropping my caps into sterilized jars and letting them drop spores on the bottom of the jar, remove the cap, add a lc lid...then inject sterilized water, shake, suckup in multi syringes and enjoy...been using a shotglass sterilized with alcohol, spores scrapped in...and shot in sterile water and sucked backed up...all of this done in open air...pretty good results, but im building my flowhood so im looking to improve my method
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7656785 - 11/19/07 08:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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cool 
fahtster
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7718300 - 12/05/07 01:39 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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So heres an update to this project for anyone that may be following it. I did in fact make a new one of these...


I inoculated it with Penis Envy and everything is going great. no contams, good moisture in container, nice even growth..

What you are looking at: I put a "donut" casing on the top of this that is just plain verm... theres no casing mix in the center so that I could inoc. there and the casing doesn't go completely to the edge so that I could inoc. all along the edge as well.. you can see by the faint casing colonization how far the colonization is underneath it on the actual cake substrate.. i'd say there is about 40% left to colonize... probably something like 4 days.. Then I'll lower the temp and introduce some new air everyday and hopefully it'll start Pinning up real nice. 

Going to be doing just the cap flooding on these PE's this time.
it's pretty funny.. at the same time that I have a thread about casing as late as you can, this thread has a casing in it that is applied before it's even inoculated. LOL talk about dancing on the extremes.
fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7718330 - 12/05/07 02:06 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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indeed fahtster...im still keeping up with it...at all hours of the day
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drwatson
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7718968 - 12/05/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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This is very interesting, I can see the potential for this. It does seem a little like a bitch to get together though. . . of course then again the up side is all those clean prints and/or spore syringes.
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Crake
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: drwatson] 1
#7733538 - 12/08/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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-------------------- MANGO Snowman wakes before dawn. He lies unmoving, listening to the tide coming in, wave after wave sloshing over the various barricades, wish-wash, wish-wash, the rhythm of heartbeat. He would so like to believe he is still asleep.
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: Crake] 1
#7760695 - 12/15/07 12:18 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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heres a quick update... everything is great. the casing that was applied prior to inoculation is staying relatively free of colonization. looks like a very healthy tray.... I started exchanging the air yesterday by removing the lid to the container and sucking the air out via that "other" polyfil stuffed syringe with a sock over it.. then pumped air in and replaced the container lid. I'm hoping for pins in about two days time... then when they out-grow the container lid.. I'll remove the lid and place under the container and use the actual bag as the lid attached by adjustable zip ties (you can loosen them). heres the pic as of today...

it appears to be just about before knotting, which is good I'm guessing that it'll start Pinning on the edges and directly in the center... where it was inoculated. the sub is pulling away from the container a little bit.. I believe this isn't actually the sub shrinking so much as it's a displacement of the air pockets within the substrate body by myc., basically pushing the freespace to outside the sub as it colonizes... it appears to have shrunk, but really it's just as big (with slight water loss but not as noticable) as when you made it. So once that appears to have happened to it's fullest, the sub is about ready to knot and produce some fruits... and all my subs do this right before they start pinning.. I think a sub that doesn't isn't balanced right.. over saturated which can be detrimental just like it can be with an over saturated cake. too much shrinking is a sign of major water loss and should be taken seriously... but if you look at the walls of that little container, they are well hydrated by the sub... just a little observation... shouldn't be long now. 
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (12/15/07 01:26 PM)
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7760881 - 12/15/07 02:58 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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drwatson
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: total] 1
#7761474 - 12/15/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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phantasmagorific!
That's just what comes to mind anyway. . .
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: drwatson] 1
#7785903 - 12/21/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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yo... update..
so someone pm'd me to see if I could elaborate a little more on what exactly is going on inside the bag. I don't see why I can't do that. If some people are going to try something like this, I should probably tell you how to do it the right way the first time, because I've already failed more times than I would like to reflect on right now lol If you want to build a absolutely, 100% (or as freakin close to it as you can), sterile environment for the complete fruiting cycle of the mushroom, then you are going to have to take into account the tiniest, smallest cracks, nooks, and crannies that can possibly be a vector for contaminating your spores/spore water. 
I'm using oven bags of the turkey size.. get two of them per box. about $2.40 for two of them. make sure you check the bag out and make sure you are satisfied with the seam at the bottom made in the factory by the impulse sealer. some bags aren't made as well as others...
Picture 1

and apparently, it's great for hams too.
***whenever you see the lid off the container or on the container or if the jar is out in the bag or in the glove, this was done without putting my hand in the glove inside the bag. The bag is very easy to maneuver... it's basically like having another glove but with no fingers.. like having a mitten. lol you can hold things, screw lids on and off, or pull the lid off the container. The only time that I use the glove is when I do the actual printing of the caps. You just have to be extra careful not to tear the oven bag. But they are very durable. if you are having a difficult time with room and such when you are trying to move things around or remove lids etc., you can just blow the bag up a bit with the filter attachment and air pump... pump some atmosphere in the bag so you aren't working in a vacuum. **everything that is in the bag right now, was put in before a 45 min. Pressure cooking at 15 psi and has been in there since.** I'll probably end up repeating myself a bit from the original post for clarity sake
lets start with...
Picture 2:

...And look at whats in the bag and why it's in there.
while looking at the bag and it's contents, think of the bag as a clock with the three attachments on the bag (that kind of form a triangle)...
Picture 3

...as the center of the clock in Picture 2 (I'll talk about the attachments in a bit, but for right now, I'm just using them as a reference point to help describe the contents of the bag)
In the 11 o'clock slot is the green lid to the substrate container. Normally the lid is kept on, but I wanted to show you entire contents of the bag. There is also a pair of scissors on top of the lid.. this is to cut the caps off the stems for printing or flooding... there is a small piece of electrical tape (ele. tape stands up really well in the PC i.e., doesn't get hard or crusty) to help prevent any tear in the oven bag by the tip of the scissors (try to get a rounded tipped scissors anyway).
In the 1 o'clock spot is the actual container holding the substrate. The substrate is about two pf cakes worth of pf recipe that is slightly on the wet side due to usually getting better flushes with a dunked or fractionally hydrated cake... and the fact that that substrate never sees unfiltered dirty air means it can stand to be a little over-hydrated from the get go without worry of contamination. There is electrical tape on the outside of the container about half way up to prevent pinning from underneath the substrate.
at the 3 o'clock position is the glove. Now this is just a latex long sleeved glove. It stands up great in a PC with no noticeable effects, i.e., melting, shrinking, etc. This idea was a nice way to cap off the oven bag but also give me a way to actually maneuver inside the bag. This is the last thing to go on the bag before it goes into the PC. There is a PVC tubing about 2 in. wide by 4.5 inch (whatever your hand fits thru easily) in diameter. The bag end is pulled thru the tubing and folded back over the top of the tubing. Then, I take the glove and put it in thru the tubing so that about half the glove is in the bag and tubing. Then fold the rest of the glove back onto the bag that is over the top of the tubing and apply an adjustable clamp to create a seal like so...
Picture 4

now there is duct tape in that pic, but it doesn't go on until after the PC'ing. the least amount of tape that needs to go thru the PC, the better. The reason for the duct tape in that pic is important because there is a gap in the clamp where the "head" of the clamp and "tail" meet.. so we need to create another seal beyond that. But when the FS (fahtsack) goes thru the PC, the cable ties will heat and expand and then cool again which will loosen them a tad after coming out of the PC. so immediately after removing it from the PC, you need to re-tighten all the ties. you also need to do this to the clamp on the glove/tubing as it will loosen a bit too. so, after you tighten everything again, is when you put the duct tape half on the tubing and half on the glove/bag end that is folded back on the tubing to seal it. I'll talk more about seals here in a bit. this is how the FS goes into the PC...
Picture 5

...notice how there isn't any tape on the tubing/glove/bag ends and the airports. If you look back at Picture 2 you can see a nice side shot of the gloved opening.. you can see the glove and bag end bulge out under 1/2 the tape and the other side is the smooth tubing.. this makes a nice seal.
In the five o'clock slot is the tall 1/2 pint jar with one of my master jar lids which can be found HERE. This jar is just like the glove in that it doesn't get used until the actual time of printing. there are basically three layers of environment going on here, each with their own level of protection...
1. Primary--The container of substrate w/lid **lowest level of protection due to the lid being removed for FAE etc.
2. Secondary--The 1/2 pint master jar which will hold your bounty safe and sterile after removal from the bag to be extracted from at will. It's basically a small portable version of a much safer bag without all the tools in it; just the spores. **highest level of protection since it sits untouched from the PC'ing until it's needed for about twenty minutes (in this instance).
3, Shell--The oven bag that contains everything. **intermediate protection. The bag can have and probably does have a few very small microscopic holes in it, but it's more than better to have it than not. 
Now the bag itself. Down in the corner of the bag is a piece of tubing that is stuffed with polyfil...
Picture 6

this is just a vent so that the bag will equalize in the PC and not pop which has happened a few times.. I probably don't need it due to the airports that I have on the bag, but I'd rather be safe than sorry and it takes nothing to put it on. This is a good time to tell you about the cable ties and why I use two of them. If you look at that last pic, you can see that there are two cable ties with the heads of each opposite the other. This is done because no matter how tight you get the cable tie, there will be a tiny gap between the locking head and the tail that clicks in.. so I put another one on opposite that one and they cancel out each others gaps.
Okay, now look at Picture 3 these are the attachments on the bag.. The top point of that triangle is the filtered airport that is used to blow air into the FS via aquarium pump. This is a version of hippie3's airport tek.. it's a great tek. It just so happened that I had an aquarium pump from doing automated setups in the past along with the tubing and it fit perfectly onto the needle port on the upside down syringe. The left point on the triangle is the outtake airport which is also an inverted syringe, but with the needle attachment totally removed to get a larger surface area to exhaust from than that tiny needle sized hole. It was kind of funny.. I was stumped, I couldn't think of a small enough pump to suck the air out.. I looked online and I started getting bummed... then I had a moment of clarity and said "wait, I'M A PUMP!" LOL so I cut the syringe and now I just put a sock over the opening to thwart tiny polyfil particles from being sucked in my lungs (don't forget this part, it's important for you health eh.) and suck the exhausted air out of the FS. Big thanks go out to Hippie3 for these airports.. this makes the FAE a.. ahem.. breeze. 
Now the reason that I have electrical tape on the airports, but not on the flexible tubing is that since the flexible tubing squeezes in when the cable ties are put on (kind of like a person and a belt) they are much tighter and the seal is better, but on the solid syringes, you can only tighten as much as the hard plastic will "give" which isn't that much, if at all. So the tape is the extra seal as a precaution.
The right point of the triangle is the self-healing inoc port. the easiest way to do this is probably to just put a blob on the bag and let it dry prior to PC'ing, but I'm too afraid it's going to peel off so I like making a solid one that I can attach. It's a piece of tubing like the one the corner vent is made out of. It has a piece of tyvek stretched over it and a smooth 1/8 in thick silicone port is made on top and inside the tubing under the tyvek as well. I then let dry. Then a hole is made in the bag and the inoc port is attached with the bag going over the tyvek and tubing to keep the tyvek tight and create a seal. no tape here either because the flexible tubing was used.
heres what it looks like with the lid on the container...

it sits in a closet on a towel like so...

...notice how the jar is sitting in the inside out glove for space.
Someone asked me what do i do if the fruits outgrow the container since it's only about four inches high total. well, the good thing about there being three layers of environment is that you can just use the bag itself as a lid if need be.. all you do is take the lid and maneuver it under the container and use the bag as a lid...

...you probably wouldn't ever need as much as room as the corner implies.. I just did it like that for demonstration purposes. you can use any part of the bag to get a lid size that won't dry your sub out but allow the fruits to grow to full potential.
Then I have these nifty "helping hand" large zip ties...

...you can "undo" them by pushing on a little lever on the bottom of the locking mechanism... so they aren't permanent zip ties. I put four together, but keep two "open" or unzipped so that you can wrap it around the container to keep the lid semi-sealed to prevent drying out...


...and there, it's a larger container if you need it to be. 
So with this one I'm airing it out everday and it's knotting.. I'm expecting pins in the next couple days...

...once I get mature fruits, I'll cut the caps off and with a 60 cc sterile syringe i'll inject thru the inoc port. unscrew the lid on that 1/2 pint and hold the cap upside down over the mouth of the jar and flood the caps... use the needle tip to do a bit of scrubbing and dump straight into the jar.. once I do that for all caps, I'll put the lid back on the jar and remove it from the bag... done. 
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (12/21/07 04:45 PM)
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7802542 - 12/26/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Home stretch...
So this thing is knotting like crazy.. It's hard to get a close up of the knots but you can see a few in this pic.. it's hard to tell the water droplets from the knots, but they're there..

And... a pin!!! lol, but look where the damn thing is..

lol... I'm just wondering where in the hell it's getting it's nutes from.. at least I know the rest can't be far behind. 
fahtster
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the_chosen_one
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster] 1
#7814290 - 12/30/07 04:32 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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hey, why not? i don't mind watching the same movie twice when it's good! especially when the big guy is the producer :hugs:
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
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fastfred
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: the_chosen_one] 1
#7814434 - 12/30/07 05:03 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Interesting stuff. Seems like a lot of extra work though. You probably could have built a flowhood with about the same amount of work.
I'm kind of curious how sterile that polyfill filtered air is? I'd probably use a micropore filter instead.
It's good that you posted here as mycotopia isn't really a suitable place for posting research.
-FF
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the_chosen_one
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fastfred] 1
#7814482 - 12/30/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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HA! yer a funny guy!
-------------------- "Luck favors the observant." - Workman
Edited by the_chosen_one (12/30/07 05:15 PM)
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fastfred]
#7816064 - 12/31/07 06:30 AM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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are you talking about micropore tape?? so you think that micropore tape is a better filter than three inches of stuffed Pressure cooked polyfil? lol do you print in front of a flowhood? how does that work? also, and I'm not sure how much clearer I can make this: the main idea is to flood caps of hard to get spores like PE.
keep the site feud BS out of my thread please.. thank you.
fahtster
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fastfred
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster]
#7817237 - 12/31/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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> are you talking about micropore tape??
No. You can get a filter, called a micropore filter, that is useful for filtering air, or liquids as in filter sterilization. It has a membrane in it that only allows particles of a certain size or less through. Very handy to have around the lab. They cost around $5 each and usually have a leur lock for attachment to a syringe or tubing.
> lol do you print in front of a flowhood? how does that work?
Set up the caps to print in your flowhood and then cover them with some sort of container. Pretty simple and effective. I never used laminar flow hoods anyways, just top down reverse fume hood style ones, so it was easy to set up caps to print then turn off the blower and shut the front.
Perhaps my post didn't come across as complimentary as I meant it. Congrats on perfecting an interesting technique and for creating a detailed writeup. It is a useful technique to know.
> keep the site feud BS out of my thread please.. thank you.
I'm not trying to stir up any feud, just pointing out that mycotopia can't be taken seriously for any sort of research. Hippie makes no real attempt at impartiality and has banned several important members just for disagreeing with him and proving him wrong.
With a moderator who chooses sides and allows little or no criticism or even posting of facts and references you have no peer review and therefore are not a reliable source for scientific information. Another point is that the shroomery is much larger and has a forum for these types of things.
Mycotopia is very valuable as a backup site in case the shroomery were to dissolve. It is good to have multiple sites on the same topic for redundancy and competition reasons.
However posting to mycotopia vs the shroomery is comparable to a letter to the editor printed in your school newspaper vs. being published in Nature IMHO.
Sorry to stray from the topic, I just wanted to explain my earlier statement since it was taken as trying to feed a feud. Just wanted to clarify that so nobody else jumps in and we can continue on topic.
One question that came to mind... As for flooding the caps... How can you be sure that you're recovering spores rather than just cloning tiny bits of tissue that might come off in the wash?
-FF
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RogerRabbit
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fastfred]
#7817322 - 12/31/07 02:35 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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Quote:
you have no peer review
But, isn't posting the procedure here asking for peer review? I don't see anything wrong with the procedure itself. It should work well.
I think all sides need to not further any inter-site feuds. They make both places look bad.  RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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fahtster
Now With 33%More Faht



Registered: 06/17/06
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fastfred]
#7817385 - 12/31/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 1 month ago) |
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well aren't you just a bundle of joy. lol reading that post is like waking up christmas morning at the easter bunnies house.
Quote:
With a moderator who chooses sides and allows little or no criticism or even posting of facts and references you have no peer review and therefore are not a reliable source for scientific information. Another point is that the shroomery is much larger and has a forum for these types of things.
lol for someone who gives compliments, you're not very good at it. I allow criticism, just not blunt disregard based on my title. If I were choosing sides, you wouldn't even be reading this thread, now would you? but, thats fine. My comments were directed at the use of micropore tape... my bad.
Quote:
One question that came to mind... As for flooding the caps... How can you be sure that you're recovering spores rather than just cloning tiny bits of tissue that might come off in the wash?
it's definitely something that I've thought of, but for now, it's still a work in progress and results are still out. but maybe I shouldn't call it work since I have no scientific value. 
....ignored
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (12/31/07 03:23 PM)
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

Registered: 07/29/07
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: the_chosen_one]
#7924183 - 01/24/08 01:08 PM (16 years, 8 days ago) |
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There is no such thing as a sterile print...
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RogerRabbit
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Sure there is. It just won't grow anything. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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dumbfounded1600
Stranger

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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7924213 - 01/24/08 01:16 PM (16 years, 8 days ago) |
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fahtster
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sorry, I have a monster headache.. I meant sterile as in clean.. I should probably have used better wording since it has a meaning so closely related in this field. I'll update this soon.. next couple days.. really busy atm.
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (01/24/08 03:18 PM)
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster]
#8083982 - 02/28/08 10:29 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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alright, so it took me a little bit longer than a couple days.. more like a month to reply, BUT I did so on purpose... I didn't get normal fruits with the PE like I did with the TEX... I should have known better.. I got these "ball" fruits which I've seen with PE before.. not sure if it's not enough O2 or less etc.. or whatever, but I did try to flood the caps of a non bagged PE specimen and it didn't work very well.. so "hands to the sky" about the PE cap flooding.. not workin.. BUT I did let these go an extended period of time to see if mold would take over.. these pics were taken just a few moments ago..
this is before I broke the bag.. you can see the "ball" fruits in the container...

no mold to be seen. Then I opened the bag and quickly took a big whiff.. and no abnormal smells were smelled to indicate bacteria.. just the earthiness of the myc..

But then I split open one of the decomposing fruits to see what was inside...

This black oily substance was inside.. I don't know if it's bacteria decomposition or if it self-decomposition, but it smelled earthy/oily as well.
This one was kinda of a nonperfect test as the inside container was sealed, this led to the container itself being malformed in the PC due to heating and cooling.. here's a pic of the bottom of the container.. you can see that it's concave.. this made the seal on the container less than desirable and I think the substrate dried out abnormally..

further tests will be done with sporelating, prolific fruit producing strains to obtain multi-use clean print jars. just a slight setback is all. Science excells through failure. 
fahtster
Edited by fahtster (02/28/08 10:31 PM)
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flavoraid
now with twicethe ketamine andopiates!

Registered: 12/05/07
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: fahtster]
#8084234 - 02/28/08 11:39 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Dare you to eat it. (the black oiling thing that is)
-------------------- coda said: imachavel, Man you really need to do some reading, the amount of bullshit you put into almost every single one of your posts is absolutely astounding.
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MycoAu
5thKingdomCome


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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: flavoraid]
#8085279 - 02/29/08 08:53 AM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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Next time, do the same grow, but use an air pump hooked to an in-line air filter and pump sterile air into the bag. Use a pin-point sized hole in the bag to allow air back out (so it doesn't over-inflate and pop). This way you have "good" air exchange and sterility is maintained without disturbing the mushrooms.
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fahtster
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Re: growing clean prints in a cleanbag. [Re: MycoAu]
#8090713 - 03/01/08 05:19 PM (15 years, 10 months ago) |
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well.. do you mean leave the air pump running? I'm not sure it's not enough air or what.. I did pump air in thru the filter and suck it out twice a day like one would do with a normal FC.. I think due to imperfect fitting lid, it actually dried out too much.. that and I think I should have used a thicker substrate... I've successfully grown healthy fruits with this procedure as stated with pics in the beginning of this thread.. the TEX, but with my shitty luck the isolate turned out to be sporeless...

not a spore in sight.
So I know this can be done, it's just a matter of getting it right and now I know that the bag is somewhat effective at keeping contams out as I kept the lid on the container and didn't air it out for a good 2 months with little to no sign of mold and seemingly no bacterial infection. so thats good. at least I got something out of the PE bag... that and knowing that the cap flooding is not as easy as I once thought.
fahtster
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