|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
Mullah thumping
#7656208 - 11/19/07 06:22 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Well, this is very very interesting. Could they have found their Gandhi?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7101591.stm
Quote:
Nobel laureate Shirin Ebadi has called on Iran to suspend its controversial nuclear work to avert what she says is a mounting threat of war with the US......
"Iran should respect UN Security Council resolutions and it means suspending uranium enrichment and resolving the dispute through talks," Ms Ebadi said.
Expect her arrest if she keeps this up, but this is genuine internal pressure on a public stage. Very much a big first step.
--------------------
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7657365 - 11/20/07 12:31 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I see no reason why Iran shouldn't be involved with nuclear work. The UN certainly isn't a reason.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7657684 - 11/20/07 03:13 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I doubt she will get arrested as even members of the Supreme Council are at odds with Ahmadinejad for the exact same reasons, that being that he is needlessly steering Iran towards a military confrontation with the United States.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
> I see no reason why Iran shouldn't be involved with nuclear work.
The term "nuclear work" is very loose. They signed treaties that clearly specify what type of nuclear work they are allowed to do, and they violated those treaties for twenty some odd years. It wasn't until somebody found out that they were violating those treaties that they began pretending that their work is for civilian use only.
The problem isn't with Iran having a bomb, it is with Iran having enrichment capability. Right now, everybody that can produce enriched uranium (EU) work together to monitor how much is out there. If Russia supplies Iran with EU, and then take back the depleted uranium (DP), a little physics and math will prove that nothing "bad" was done with the EU. However, once Iran is capable of enriching on their own, there is no way for the "big-5" to ensure that they are not diverting EU towards military use.
Also, the general public is fairly misinformed about how enriched the uranium has to be in order to work as a bomb. The number is just a hair over 5% enrichment, not the 95% typically cited by media.
Finally, there are a lot of military uses for EU other than bombs. Iran has a fairly active naval fleet, including submarines, but they are all conventional fuel based. Naval vessels use uranium based reactors due to size and weight.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Seuss]
#7657846 - 11/20/07 05:19 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
If they sign treaties and then violate them, then the countries who have signed treaties with them may feel free to revise their relationship with Iran as they see fit.
Regarding their usage of the enriched uranium, it is really their choice, no different than any other country, like the United States, for instance. Either all countries are sovereign, or none of them are. If their actions impose upon the sovereignity of another country, then surely Iran will face negative consequences that will deter.
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 3 months, 8 days
|
|
Quote:
If they sign treaties and then violate them, then the countries who have signed treaties with them may feel free to revise their relationship with Iran as they see fit.
No if... they did... and now they are suffering the consequences of those actions.
Quote:
Regarding their usage of the enriched uranium, it is really their choice, no different than any other country, like the United States, for instance.
Nope, not at all. They signed treaties that are very specific in what they can or cannot do with enriched uranium; they violated those treaties, in secret, for twenty years.
I am 100% against military action against Iran (by the US), but if you think that their nuclear work is for peaceful civilian use only, then you are very mistaken.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
|
fireworks_god
Sexy.Butt.McDanger



Registered: 03/12/02
Posts: 24,855
Loc: Pandurn
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Seuss]
#7657880 - 11/20/07 05:41 AM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Seuss said: No if... they did... and now they are suffering the consequences of those actions.
My statement was generalized, in that it refers to any situation really. A line of logic, if you will.
Quote:
Nope, not at all. They signed treaties that are very specific in what they can or cannot do with enriched uranium; they violated those treaties, in secret, for twenty years.
So what? They signed a treaty wherein other countries stated what rights they do and do not have, and they didn't honor them. A treaty doesn't take away sovereign rights.
Quote:
I am 100% against military action against Iran (by the US), but if you think that their nuclear work is for peaceful civilian use only, then you are very mistaken.
Have I proposed anywhere that I think so?
--------------------
If I should die this very moment I wouldn't fear For I've never known completeness Like being here Wrapped in the warmth of you Loving every breath of you
|
The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
|
|
If Iran gets a nuke then its going to spark a arms race in the mid-east, because the shiites have always been on the bottom your gonna see Saudia Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and Turkey are all going to "need" a nuke as a failsafe against a nuclear armed Iran.
|
Luddite
I watch Fox News


Registered: 03/23/06
Posts: 2,946
|
|
Nuclear jihad!
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7659643 - 11/20/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:13 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
|
I'd be totally happy with just the rest of the world having zero. That other stuff is just fluff.
--------------------
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7659725 - 11/20/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:13 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
|
Absolutely 100%. As soon as you tell me how it can be done.
--------------------
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7660003 - 11/20/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:14 PM)
|
johnm214



Registered: 05/31/07
Posts: 17,582
Loc: Americas
|
|
That wouldn't work for the same reason truth serums wouldn't work in most situations
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: johnm214]
#7660141 - 11/20/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:14 PM)
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 11 months
|
|
You forgot the bra, too, Wyatt.
--------------------
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7660436 - 11/20/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Absolutely 100%. As soon as you tell me how it can be done.
Democratic Peace Theory. When autocratic and despotic regimes cease to exist, nuclear disarmament will be possible.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Basilides]
#7660539 - 11/20/07 08:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
---
Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:15 PM)
|
zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zappaisgod]
#7660703 - 11/20/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said: You forgot the bra, too, Wyatt.
That was..Weird.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
|
The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Basilides]
#7660770 - 11/20/07 09:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Basilides said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Absolutely 100%. As soon as you tell me how it can be done.
Democratic Peace Theory. When autocratic and despotic regimes cease to exist, nuclear disarmament will be possible.
How many nukes will it take to accomplish that?
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
Democratic Peace Theory
I can get down with that... as long as we realize that in most of the rest of the world the U.S. government has not only not advanced peace (which can only be achieved when a people first have full self-determination) & democracy, it has aggressive prevented & subverted them.
It's important to remember American foreign policy in its entire context, not merely the Cold War and post-Cold War Machiavellianism we're currently familiar with. America has in fact built prospering and peaceful democracies (South Korea and Japan for example), but it's imperative to note these these were birthed from internationalist involvement on the part of the U.S. The Ameri-centrism of today's American policy, while entirely dubious and un-enlightened, nonetheless only threatens despotic regimes. While this would be a miniscule issue if America actually succeeded in establishing functioning and secure democracies, this is sadly not the case because the conflicts that be are entwined with the United States directly, not the international community. Hence the popular repetition of "defending democracy" rhetoric, as it attempts legitimize American wars as an expression of Democratic Peace Theory when this couldn't be further from the truth.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
|
Quote:
The_Red_Crayon said:
Quote:
Basilides said:
Quote:
zappaisgod said: Absolutely 100%. As soon as you tell me how it can be done.
Democratic Peace Theory. When autocratic and despotic regimes cease to exist, nuclear disarmament will be possible.
How many nukes will it take to accomplish that?
None. War cannot bring about democracy in a non-internationalist manner. Un-egalitarian countries will have to gradually bring to life such fundamental principles on their own.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Basilides]
#7660817 - 11/20/07 09:47 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I wish I could believe that can happen, but nothing short of a malthusian disaster would shake peoples complacency. Man is very out of rythm in the world he lives in, rational people pointed nukes at each other in the 60's, what is rational and what is reality is no longer as easy to grasp anymore.
|
Basilides
Servent ofWisdom



Registered: 02/10/06
Posts: 7,059
Loc: Crown and Heart
Last seen: 12 years, 11 months
|
|
What was real is that the U.S. and USSR both did not want to get nuked, and mutual rationalism worked out in the end. I should also mention, in the 1960's there were alot more despotic governments that are today liberal democracies. It's a slow, but gradual process. I do believe the world will become fully egalitarian at a certain point.
--------------------
    "Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."
|
The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


Registered: 08/13/03
Posts: 13,673
Loc: Smokey Mtns. TN
Last seen: 7 years, 12 days
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: Basilides]
#7661004 - 11/20/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
When we are forced too...
|
how.psilly.of.me
Stranger
Registered: 01/31/22
Posts: 11
Loc: Ann Arbor, MI
Last seen: 1 year, 8 months
|
Re: Mullah thumping [Re: zorbman]
#27722883 - 04/06/22 06:29 AM (2 years, 1 month ago) |
|
|
Just trying to get my ten posts in. Apologies.
-------------------- Well he said, "Your minds infected," but I said, "You lack perspective." -Ben Caplin
|
|