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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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The on off switch. (when does it end?)
#7655324 - 11/19/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Answer: It doesn't.
"The Buddhas parents tried to make sure their son would not consider the three chess pieces that lead off the game board. Sickness, age and death.
Science and mysticism now agree that every form is an illusion. The scientist can gaze with equanimity at the death of a solar system, but when it comes to his own ego chessboard there is the illusion of enduring solidity. Ego is unable to learn from the past or predict the obvious events of the future because of it's deep dread of confronting mortality.
Everything at the level of energy is a shuttling series of vibrations. Ego resists this notion and touches the immediate solidity of phenomena. We dislike slowing the motion picture down because the film flickers. Annoying reminder that we view not unbroken continuity but an on off ribbon of still pictures.
Life is an illusion. There one second gone the next. Death is equally illusory. Suicide a farce. The desire to escape is exactly as pointless as the desire to hang on to life"
No exit. All energy. Tao. I was telling Veritas that if most people really grokked Taoism they would choose something else to believe in.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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deimya
tofu and monocle


Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7655674 - 11/19/07 04:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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And this "unparadox" is the very reason it's possible, or allowed (by and of itself) to exist at all. When one tries to approach the subjective reality, which is all there will ever be for us humans, in any kind of ways, one is stuck with this blank page syndrome.
One is locked in one's universe, this is all there is. Yet the ego fights for the cause of an illusory exterior essence, it fights for an external support, for an objective embodiment of it all. Yet this self universe is vast and its illusion persuasively alive.
Just for the lame fun of speaking of the unspeakable : IF the Tao was communicable, this act of communication would triple its flow.
If one could put the universe into equations, these equations would contain in themselves the seed of themselves; Nature for now thinks it describes itself as best as it can with mathematics, so if it also thinks it can describe itself "perfectly" (well, at the end it needs no be mathematics as we know it), then it should be able to describe why it can do so in the first place. Yet all it finds is a blank page, again.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7656121 - 11/19/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Again, read Camus!
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takeflight
retired


Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 82
Loc: PNW
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7656629 - 11/19/07 08:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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tim leary in the house
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: takeflight]
#7656944 - 11/19/07 09:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Life cannot be an illusion only. Illusion can only be experienced and known in the abscence and presence of realness. I think life then cannot be an illusion only, and must have a reality, if we are to experience it as illusionary, at all.
What question is coming to mind is what is life?
How would you describe it?
glad i know i dont need to be anywhere. JLM
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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psyka
Praetorian


Registered: 06/09/03
Posts: 1,652
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7657091 - 11/19/07 10:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There are deep states of meditation you can get into, where you can see and feel your senses flicker on and off; a lot like seeing the individual frames in a movie one by one. It is rather startling (and relieving), because when this is happening, you get the strangest understanding that the lights are on, but nobody is home.
-------------------- As the life of a candle, my wick will burn out. But, the fire of my mind shall beam into infinite.

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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: psyka]
#7657487 - 11/20/07 01:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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water brother,
do you think it's possible to grok Taoism if you are wanting and seeking to grok it?
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Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly


Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,685
Loc: On the Border
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7657782 - 11/20/07 04:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I found a short piece which expresses my views on what you have said.
Syntax
A man staring at his equations
said that the universe had a beginning.
There had been an explosion, he said.
A bang of bangs, and the universe was born.
And it is expanding, he said.
He had even calculated the length of its life:
ten billion revolutions of the Earth around the sun.
The entire globe cheered:
They found his calculations to be science.
None thought that by proposing that the universe began,
the man had merely mirrored the syntax of his mother toungue;
a syntax which demands
beginnings, like birth,
and developments, like maturation,
and ends, like death,
as statements of facts.
The universe began,
and it is getting old, the man assured us,
and it will die, like all things die,
like himself died after confirming mathmatically
the syntax of his mother tongue.
The Other Syntax
Did the universe really begin?
Is the theory of the big bang true?
These are not questions, though they sound like they are.
Is the syntax that requires beginnings, developments
and ends as statements of fact the only syntax that exinsts?
That's the real question.
There are other syntaxes.
There is one, for example, which demands that varieties
of intensity be taken as facts.
In that syntax nothing begins and nothing ends;
thus birth is not a clean, clear-cut event,
but a specific type of intensity,
and so is maturation, and so is death.
A man of that syntax, looking over his equations, finds that
he has calculated enough varieties of intensity
to say with authority
that the universe never began
and will never end,
but that it has gone, and is going now, and will go
through endless fluctuations of intensity.
That man could very well conclude that the universe itself
is the chariot of intensity
and that one can board it
to journey through changes without end.
He will conclude all that, and much more,
perhaps without ever realizing
that he is merely confirming
the syntax of his mother tongue.
-------------------- "A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
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deimya
tofu and monocle


Registered: 08/26/04
Posts: 825
Loc: ausländer.ch
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7658058 - 11/20/07 07:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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NiamhNyx : Could you speak your own Camus ?
TameMe : Indeed one could only make a fool of himself. It's only fun to realize that even when not speaking of it nor groking it one runs into difficulties. They only disappear when you stop doing, or stop not doing so, and change the subject completely.
JoseLibrado : I would not worry, because saying life is an illusion doesn't settle anything indeed. If it would be so, then this illusion is surely not illusory. For me life is this thing through which things exist. For me life is conscious, or say, consciousness.
Huehuecoyotl : Many thanks for these poems. I find that they somehow reflect Wittgenstein's ideas in a less dry way; locked in your language, by itself it doesn't convey any sense. I like to think (call me a fool) that there should be a different way of "speaking" of things, a way that does not involve language, that is not describable with language. Call me a fool because yes, it sounds like bootstrapping.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7658353 - 11/20/07 10:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
NiamhNyx said: Again, read Camus!
Actually he came up in my at home discussion with Veritas which lead to this post.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Huehuecoyotl]
#7658363 - 11/20/07 10:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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thus birth is not a clean, clear-cut event,
but a specific type of intensity,
As with death also. Transformation of energy from one state to another.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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BlueCoyote
Beyond



Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
Loc: Between
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: Icelander]
#7658510 - 11/20/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Use a stroboscope and play with its frequencies. You will see many different states of illusory existence 
Two ventilators also do the trick for beginners.
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leery11
I Tell You What!


Registered: 06/24/05
Posts: 5,998
Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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Re: The on off switch. (when does it end?) [Re: BlueCoyote]
#7663428 - 11/21/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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the idea that people are afraid of confronting mortality is as dangerous as the idea that mortality exists
[parabola]
for some people, to encounter the idea that mortality must be confronted and conquered, can produce more fear than to negate the idea and not even give it any referential mention at all in any condition, way, form
i think
something i said or didn't say here is true
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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