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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658705 - 11/20/07 11:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Opinions are like something else every one has, so unless somebody wishes to quote some scientific texts to back up claims, let's not be spreading flames over our opinions.
I can easily see how water 10,000 feet below the surface of the earth can heat to well over 100C without boiling. After all, think of the weight(pressure) a 10,000 feet deep well of water will exert on the water at the bottom. That's a lot more pressure then the walls of our PC's can contain.
However, I doubt seriously the walls of an oven bag can exert that much pressure. There's no way to get every molecule of air out of a bag of coir or manure, even if it soaks in water for a month. In addition, even if it did, you'd be handling a bomb when you open the microwave.
My background is engineering, not chemistry, so we should wait for one of the member chemists to chime in. The overall point is mute though, because sterilized substrates are much more likely to contaminate than pasteurized substrates. One shouldn't heat substrate or casing material above about 170F, or the chances of contamination are increased rather than decreased. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7658748 - 11/20/07 11:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well rather than get frustrated and annoyed i will bow out of this conversation and leave you with this http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/water-thermal-properties-d_162.html
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658881 - 11/20/07 12:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Slimz said: http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter11.html
Deep under the surface, water sometimes makes its way close to the hot rock and turns into boiling hot water or into steam. The hot water can reach temperatures of more than 300 degrees Fahrenheit (148 degrees Celsius). This is hotter than boiling water (212 degrees F / 100 degrees C). It doesn't turn into steam because it is not in contact with the air.
The water reaches that temperature without boiling because it is many hundreds of metres below the surface and the pressure there is 10 times as big as at sea level (at 1000m below the surface pressure is 100atm or 1,469.5949 PSI) so the temperature at which water boils is much higher.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658915 - 11/20/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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WOW! im done, your a moron!
Raising the bar again, I see.
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Do you really believe that you can boil the entire contents the bag in to vapor and expand it in to a few microscopic air pockets
No, I don't. The fine folks at the University of New South Wales do.
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Once a bubble forms (a process called nucleation), it is easy to increase its size. So the superheated water nearby evaporates very quickly, producing a large volume of steam.
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There's no way to get every molecule of air out of a bag of coir or manure, even if it soaks in water for a month. In addition, even if it did, you'd be handling a bomb when you open the microwave.
Yup. I've said that like 3 times now.
-x-x-x-
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explain to this person that once you reach 100% humidity you get precipitation. and if the air is saturated then no more water can evaporate.
We're not talking about a cup of water in the desert Thank you, Georgia State University, you've been very helpful!
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the substances that dissolve in the water that allow it to stay liquid above 100 C. Antifreeze anyone or maybe you have never seen hard candy made. The hotter you make the water the more will dissolve in it and it will stay liquid. Supersaturation anyone.
Yes, but there isn't any antifreeze in his coco coir. And furthermore, I doubt highly that coconut husks are going to raise the boiling point of water by +70%, when the boiling point of the water will begin to rise by about one half degree Celsius, for every 58 grams of salt dissolved per kilogram of water.
xoxoxoxo, thedefone
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7658968 - 11/20/07 12:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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well this was mush not dissolved solids in water. All the fancy science that either of us can come up with does not change the fact that we are dealing with a mush, and that the properties of that mush allowed it to reach 350...
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Uns4ne
I Fail At Life




Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 112
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7659138 - 11/20/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Slimz know this, your observations are correct. You can heat a water saturated substrate far above the boiling point of water in a microwave, without desiccating it. However as RR pionted out it is probably more appropriate to pasteurize the applicable mediums than it is to sterilize them.
You should also know that pumping enough energy into a substrate to sterilize it can cause a bad ass fire. I almost had a catastrophe using a microwave and I would suggest you use more traditional methods.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Uns4ne]
#7659382 - 11/20/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I realize that pasteurizing it is better (now) but at least someone understands that i wasn't making this up...
PS fire probably happened at around 450f (thats the temp wood starts to burn)
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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