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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7656032 - 11/19/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Everybody knows about the pure distilled water in a clean, smooth container being able to be superheated slightly above 100C and remain liquid. There's dozens of demonstrations on youtube and others. However, coir or anything else mixed with water can NOT be heated above 100C without the water changing state to a gas. It doesn't matter if there's any air above the water or not. RR
As RR already said, It doesn't matter even if the water was deionized, let alone destilled. The surface of the coir would produce countless nucleation sites
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JBT17
Stranger

Registered: 10/02/07
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Nibin]
#7656046 - 11/19/07 05:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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so if i put my substrate (BRF)into a tuberware container completely sealed in the microwave, will it explode? Even though some of you are skeptics, if you absolutely had to use a microwave AND BRF and a spore syringe how would you go about doing it?
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thedeez



Registered: 08/31/06
Posts: 131
Last seen: 9 months, 9 days
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7656060 - 11/19/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
RogerRabbit said: Everybody knows about the pure distilled water in a clean, smooth container being able to be superheated slightly above 100C and remain liquid. There's dozens of demonstrations on youtube and others. However, coir or anything else mixed with water can NOT be heated above 100C without the water changing state to a gas. It doesn't matter if there's any air above the water or not. RR
Well I hardly think everybody knows it...
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RogerRabbit
Bans for Pleasure



Registered: 03/26/03
Posts: 42,214
Loc: Seattle
Last seen: 11 months, 3 days
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedeez]
#7656070 - 11/19/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
if you absolutely had to use a microwave AND BRF and a spore syringe how would you go about doing it?
By taking up another hobby.
You can not heat water to 100C in brf jars or tupperware. You'll want to use glass jars, and a kettle of water on the stove to sterilize your brf jars. A pressure cooker is not required, but don't even look at the microwave. RR
-------------------- Download Let's Grow Mushrooms semper in excretia sumus solim profundum variat "I've never had a failed experiment. I've only discovered 10,000 methods which do not work." Thomas Edison
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: JBT17]
#7656252 - 11/19/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
JBT17 said: so if i put my substrate (BRF)into a tuberware container completely sealed in the microwave, will it explode? Even though some of you are skeptics, if you absolutely had to use a microwave AND BRF and a spore syringe how would you go about doing it?
And it won't explode as the substrate will provide more that enough nucleation sites so the water will never be able to superheat
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: RogerRabbit]
#7656253 - 11/19/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well. I got out an oven bag, and loaded it with 2 cups of coir, and a half a cup of worm castings (as a substitute for the coffee, which I don't drink) and mixed it with water to make it "kinda soupy" and microwaved it for 15 minutes. I assume that when Slimz was sterilizing his bulk he had substantially more than 2 & 1/2 cups of Sub. When the little bell rang I took it out and, Good God Almighty was it hot. So I got out my handy-dandy new-fangled thermometer... 350F? Not even close. 210F at the core. That was more time and less sub.
I did my best to really recreate, as well as I could, the conditions described in Slimz' post. In reality, microwaving your bulk is probably better than not doing anything to it, but it's not making it sterile (as far as these parameters are concerned.) In fact, I have mic pasteurized my bulk subs in the past. But I wont be attempting to sterilize my grains, or bulk subs, or anything with the microwave anytime soon.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7656261 - 11/19/07 06:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
And it won't explode as the substrate will provide more that enough nucleation sites so the water will never be able to superheat
That's my point precisely. I meant that in the context of the second quote.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7658124 - 11/20/07 08:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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wow.. please do the experiment yourself.
1 bag with no air, just water.. the other with water and air
one will super heat and the other wont. period.. thats how it works...
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658132 - 11/20/07 08:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If the bag contains anything but water, it will not superheat.
if it contains no water whatsoever it might heat to over 100ºC
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Nibin]
#7658166 - 11/20/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
wow.. please do the experiment yourself.
1 bag with no air, just water.. the other with water and air
one will super heat and the other wont. period.. thats how it works...
Wow.. But, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. Do one with no air, just water; another with water and air; and another with coffee/coir and water. Only one will super heat and the others won't. Period. That's how it works.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7658249 - 11/20/07 09:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i JUST did it again (with some coir) and got it to 340 in 7 min
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658253 - 11/20/07 09:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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how are you measuring temps?
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Nibin]
#7658349 - 11/20/07 10:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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with a meat thermometer.. i heat it up.. pull it out, then kinda fold the bag in half with the thermometer in the middle
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658383 - 11/20/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.energyquest.ca.gov/story/chapter11.html
Deep under the surface, water sometimes makes its way close to the hot rock and turns into boiling hot water or into steam. The hot water can reach temperatures of more than 300 degrees Fahrenheit (148 degrees Celsius). This is hotter than boiling water (212 degrees F / 100 degrees C). It doesn't turn into steam because it is not in contact with the air.
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658418 - 11/20/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you are getting alittle con fussed, if you have sqeezed all the air out of your bag, then there is no where for the steam to go, so it will just be sitting as a gass within the coir, that doesnt meen it hasnt evaporated.
By the way, steam is water as a gas.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: veda_sticks]
#7658456 - 11/20/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I understand physics... water is water is water.. you say its in the coir as a gas? what makes water a gas? the answer is its relative density. so if its sitting next to another water molecule which is sitting next to another etc etc. as long at they are in close enough proximity, they are water and NOT water vapor..
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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syntroniks
Stranger Danger
Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 76
Loc: Assen, Holland
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7658476 - 11/20/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Unless its distilled water in a perfect container, it's probably not going to get superheated.
I'm not saying other liquids can't be superheated, its just that you couldn't get coir to 1000F without boiling.
I wish I had an autoclave :'(
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thedefone
deus ex machina

Registered: 10/06/07
Posts: 1,883
Loc: Gondwana
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: Slimz]
#7658535 - 11/20/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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As long as we're quoting, let's have a little fun, shall we?
Quote:
I understand physics... water is water is water.. you say its in the coir as a gas? what makes water a gas? the answer is its relative density. so if its sitting next to another water molecule which is sitting next to another etc etc. as long at they are in close enough proximity, they are water and NOT water vapor..
Have you even bothered to read the other references in this thread? There is still air in that bag no matter how hard you try to get it out. Microscopic bubbles.
Quote:
Smooth containers do not have bubbles of air clinging to their sides. Rough walled or scratched containers may hold microscopic bubbles in their cracks. These become nucleii for boiling. Even a crack that is fully filled with water can be a boiling nucleus because it reduces the required area of the water-vapour surface.
You got all the microscopic bubbles out? All of them? Every single molecule?
Quote:
Once a bubble forms (a process called nucleation), it is easy to increase its size. So the superheated water nearby evaporates very quickly, producing a large volume of steam.
So when you expose that coir/water to air does it boil? Does it produce that large volume of steam, like these do? Hell, how about when you touch it?
Quote:
got it to 340 in 7 min
Quote:
The hot water can reach temperatures of more than 300 degrees Fahrenheit (148 degrees Celsius). This is hotter than boiling water (212 degrees F / 100 degrees C). It doesn't turn into steam because it is not in contact with the air.
Wow! Your microwave is more powerful than Earth!
Quote:
could someone who knows the boiling point of water please comment?
Quote:
i have answered my own question
Then why did you ask it in the first place? Look, if you don't want other people to weigh in on your ideas, then don't post them. And when someone does disagree with you, don't get all butt hurt and insult them, because it lowers the level of discourse in the forum.
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I am become death, the destroyer of worlds.
Edited by thedefone (11/20/07 11:10 AM)
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Uns4ne
I Fail At Life




Registered: 10/17/07
Posts: 112
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: syntroniks]
#7658603 - 11/20/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Has nothing to do with "pure water". It's the substances that dissolve in the water that allow it to stay liquid above 100 C. Antifreeze anyone or maybe you have never seen hard candy made. The hotter you make the water the more will dissolve in it and it will stay liquid. Supersaturation anyone.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: Super Sterilization (microwave) [Re: thedefone]
#7658615 - 11/20/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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WOW! im done, your a moron!
Do you really believe that you can boil the entire contents the bag in to vapor and expand it in to a few microscopic air pockets.. Let me get this straight.. you want to expand all the water in to those air pockets and still maintain a low enough density as to not precipitate?
Please, anyone.. explain to this person that once you reach 100% humidity you get precipitation. and if the air is saturated then no more water can evaporate.
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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