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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters
    #7654780 - 11/19/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This was a good take on who they are. I thought of the shroomery when I read the part about a youtube cult, following Paul taking on Bernake and the Federal Reserve Banks. Hatecamel posted a video here last May of Paul laying into the them. That's what orginally got me hooked.


http://washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071119/NATION/111190062/1001

I liked the last line the best-"There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government."


Quote:

PHILADELPHIA — They are crusty Iowa farmers enticed by doing away with the income tax, libertarian-minded college students in heavy-metal band T-shirts, antiwar Republicans looking for a champion, and folks worried about the Federal Reserve Board and paper money.



They say they are the disaffected in politics, and this year they are finding a political home with Ron Paul, the congressman from Texas who is shaking up the Republican presidential contest with phenomenal fund raising and the potential to convert that into enough votes to be a spoiler come January.



Even without the fife-and-drum players, they are the loudest of crowds. Even without the "Don't Tread on Me" flags and cloak-and-mask movie costumes, they are the most colorful. And Mr. Paul's supporters certainly are the most suspicious of the political process.



"I don't want to sound like one of these nut cases, there are probably some of them here," said Tom Levins, waving his arm toward 2,000 fellow supporters rallying with Mr. Paul on Nov. 10 in Philadelphia. "But you have to wonder about the establishment. I've had it cross my mind, could he be the next political person knocked off?"



For Mr. Levins and other supporters, Mr. Paul is more than just a choice on the Republican primary ballot. He is talismanic, a 72-year-old 10-term congressman who transcends partisan politics. For them, he's the man who can restore the Constitution, end the Iraq war, bring back the gold standard for money and stop an erosion of civil rights.



Before his political career, Mr. Paul was a doctor — first an Air Force flight surgeon and later an obstetrician — and his frequent votes against spending bills and ever-expanding federal programs earned him the nickname "Dr. No." He also was the Libertarian Party nominee for president in 1988, running a distant third.



His supporters cheer his willingness to stand up to institutions of power, and his recent tussle with Federal Reserve Chairman Ben S. Bernanke at a congressional hearing has become a cult hit among the candidate's supporters on YouTube.



"It's not about the issues, it's about the Constitution," said Michael Hamme, one of the rally-goers. "Basically, as I see it, we're run by the Federal Reserve system, which is actually not legal."

The words "authentic" and "honest" pop up repeatedly when his supporters talk about Mr. Paul, and many say that's why they're willing to overlook their disagreements — and for a candidate who embraces an end to the drug war, the Internal Revenue Service and abortion, just about everyone finds something to disagree with.



"He's kind of no style and all substance. He wouldn't be in the game if he didn't really believe in what he's saying," Jacob Lyles, a 24-year-old investment banker from Arlington said in a telephone interview. He said Mr. Paul's authenticity cuts through a lot of the political clutter to grab supporters. "I think that's kind of the exact opposite of what his Republican opponents are saying."



The rise of Mr. Paul and fellow Republican upstart candidate Mike Huckabee suggests the unsettled nature of the Republican field. While Mr. Huckabee's ascent has been characterized by poor fundraising and a slow-but-steady buildup of old-fashioned word of mouth, Mr. Paul's campaign has benefited from phenomenal fund raising and an Internet-powered explosion.



Mr. Paul told the Philadelphia crowd the Internet has become "a very strong political equalizer," and Michael Cornfield, a political scientist who studies campaigns and the Internet, said he is the type of candidate to harness it.



"There's a sort of romantic aura that descends around the head of someone who's seen as willing to speak his mind, no matter what. He's not in control of the consultants; he's not calculating," he said.



At times the Internet-based supporters actually are leading the campaign — which is how the campaign wants it.



When some supporters called for a mass-donation day on Nov. 5, the British Guy Fawkes holiday, taking their lead from the "V for Vendetta" movie, the campaign was fine with standing back and watching the money roll in — more than $4 million in one day.



Supporters have vowed to try to top that figure with "Tea Party '07," timed for Dec. 16, the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.



"That's going to be big," Mr. Cornfield said. "If you do something once, that gets everyone's attention. If you do something twice, you've got a movement."



The Ron Paul movement already is gaining a reputation, at least online, where articles and blog postings about its champion draw hundreds of responses, many of them angry and nearly all of them accusing major press outlets of ignoring Mr. Paul.



The vitriol of some supporters prompted one popular conservative Web site, redstate.com, to ban most Paul supporters from its discussions. The moderator of the site said it was getting "annoying, time-consuming, and bandwidth-wasting responding to the same idiotic arguments from a bunch of liberals pretending to be Republicans."



Still, supporters said their movement shouldn't be judged by its loudest members.



Rob Kampia, a supporter and executive director of the D.C.-based Marijuana Policy Project, said his experience with activist politics suggests there are quiet supporters behind the forthright ones.



"If the Ron Paul supporters are coming off as more kooky than average, it doesn't really surprise me, because we've seen in the marijuana movement the people who are most likely to come out for a controversial cause are those who have less to lose," said Mr. Kampia, who has contributed the maximum $2,300 to Mr. Paul's campaign.



Mr. Paul's supporters say that they're not liberal; they're the true conservatives. But many of them are going to be first-time Republican primary voters. At the Philadelphia rally, an informal survey found party-switchers appeared to be the norm.



"I tell you what, it hurt," said Bob Larkin, who changed his Connecticut registration to vote in the Republican primary. "I had to swallow the bile and do it. As soon as Super Tuesday is gone, I'm independent again."



Shawntae Devlugt, who switched her registration in New Jersey from Democrat to Republican in order to vote for Mr. Paul in the primary, said she was never going back. "Kerry messed that up for the Democrats," she said, blaming the Massachusetts senator for his 2004 defeat. "He can't prove he didn't throw the election to Bush."



Ms. Devlugt stood out among the Philadelphia supporters for more than her green Statue of Liberty outfit, complete with Lady Liberty tiara. She also was one of the few black supporters present, a fact that did not go unnoticed by one passing car with several Barack Obama stickers on it.



Its two white occupants kept telling her Mr. Paul is racist, Ms. Devlugt said. She told them she'd been to plenty of rallies and never detected any racism from Mr. Paul's words or from his supporters.



Not all of Mr. Paul's supporters are newcomers.



Mr. Levins, who first came across Mr. Paul in the 1970s and has received his Freedom Report newsletter for years, said as a non-Texan, he had been waiting for the day he could have a Ron Paul bumper sticker. With a mixture of sheepishness and pride, he and his wife admitted to having the Ron Paul cookbook at home.



"I look at some of these people, and I say to myself, 'Yeah, it's weird' or whatever — I just think finally there may be a trend in this country where people are fed up with what they're hearing," he said. "There's no sheep here, there's wolves here, questioning our nation's government."










The Tuesday, Nov 21st (tomorrow) edition of U.S. Daily News, will be featuring a full page ad on Ron Paul. A supporter from the east coast spent over $100,000, on it of his own money. They will be doing an article on RP as well. That's some dedicated support!!!


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Ahuwale ka nane huna.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7654850 - 11/19/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is how they are going to try to mischaracterize him and block the swing-vote
in the primaries....abortion.

This article says he seeks an end to abortion.

Personally, he is anti-abortion, but has stated that he is against a constitutional
ban on abortion and believes it's a state issue.

I think I can deal with that as someone who is pro-choice.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: afoaf]
    #7655082 - 11/19/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
This is how they are going to try to mischaracterize him and block the swing-vote
in the primaries....abortion.

This article says he seeks an end to abortion.

Personally, he is anti-abortion, but has stated that he is against a constitutional
ban on abortion and believes it's a state issue.

I think I can deal with that as someone who is pro-choice.




The ironic part is that because of his constitutional, states right position on it, he is being called a liberal by some on the hard right. They want a guy who will put a Federal ban on abortion and Paul isnt that guy. Huckabee is their man for that.

I am pro-choice also and it took me a while to reason through it. He has said that it was low on his priority list of things to correct.

The War, Economy, then our Borders, are his Biggies he really wants to focus on. Those are big issues to me as well. No doubt, if he even got as far as to turn the abortion issue back over to the states, I have no doubt the majority of states would keep it legal.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7655941 - 11/19/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/

ron paul ahead of thompson in NH polls


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: BrAiN]
    #7656054 - 11/19/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks for the post, pretty good article.


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: BrAiN]
    #7656764 - 11/19/07 08:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It's not hard to beat a corpse.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: afoaf]
    #7658285 - 11/20/07 09:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

afoaf said:
It's not hard to beat a corpse.




Absolutely.

He may be a point ahead of Thompson, but what good is that when he's 40 points behind Romney?

Give up about the Republican nomination. They won't do it.


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After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlinefireworks_godS
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7658329 - 11/20/07 10:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm given to understand that John Kerrey was underneath 10% going into the primaries as well. :shrug:


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7658369 - 11/20/07 10:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I hear Ron Paul supporters and people say that all the time. But it just isn't true.

In a Gallup Poll taken 5 days before the first primary in 2004, which was held in New Hampshire that year, John Kerry had 30% of the vote. The closest challenger, Dean, had under 25.

Nobody is making 30% jumps in the polls overnight.

2004 Pre-Primary Article

Quote:

MANCHESTER, New Hampshire (CNN) -- As the seven Democratic presidential candidates faced off in their only debate before the New Hampshire primary, new polls showed Sen. John Kerry opening a lead over former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean.

Five days before the campaign season's first primary, Kerry also picked up several endorsements, including support from two major newspapers in his home state of Massachusetts.

Kerry led Dean 30 percent to 25 percent among likely Democratic voters in a CNN/USA Today/Gallup tracking poll released Thursday. They were followed by retired Gen. Wesley Clark with the support of 18 percent of likely voters; Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina with 11 percent; and Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut with 8 percent.

Rep. Dennis Kucinich of Ohio trailed with 4 percent support, while fewer than 1 percent of likely voters backed civil rights activist Al Sharpton.

Other polls showed Kerry with an even wider lead.
Kerry, however, downplayed his front-runner status Thursday.




--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Offlineandrewss
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7659003 - 11/20/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This doesnt really relate to much, but I figured I would post it. Paul makes some great points in these speeches. The part about UN ties screwing over some military actions in the past resonated with me (1st gulf war and Somalia stood out to me). Anyway... pretty interesting clip from 2002.

"
&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7659497 - 11/20/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That talk about Kerry, even Regan, Bill Clinton and Carter is related to where they were in late October/Nov in the polls. All there percentages in their first elections were single digits at that time and started rising quickly from there until the primary's

A lot can happen still. Paul already doubled his numbers in New Hampshire in one month. Paul already doubled his numbers nationally, in the last 3 weeks. He is on the RISE!

Those are just poll figures anyway.

Polls that do not call 85% of those who plan on voting for Paul in the Primaries because

a) They were not registered republicans who voted in the last primaries.

B) They are still not registered with the Republican party because they don't have to be if their state has an open primary.

c) The younger support base of his, have cell phones, not land lines.

The polls you see on the news, do not reflect even closely, how many are going to be voting for him in the primaries.

When it comes to those who will go out and vote, an indicator is that Paul has won more GOP straw polls, then any other candidate. People had to pay to make those votes as well. Thats how serious his supporters are about coming out and doing the same for him in the primaries.

You don't understand the first thing about a true Ron Paul supporter.

We support him, because we agree with his positions more then any other candidate, and respect and trust him.

We are not so shallow as to vote for who we think will win. We are donating too, campaigning for and voting for who we WANT to win, as it should be.

You could never convince a true Paul supporter to give up on him, his message and what he stands for. trying to do that is something you should give up on.

He stands to raise more money in Q4 then any other Republican candidate. He will have done that from actual voters, not from his own bank account cough*Romney*cough and not from special interest groups Pacs cough*Rudy*cough.

Their funds have been on the down from quarter to quarter. Paul's keep going up as more people get to learn about him.

He's already pushing 9 mill for the quarter, stands to take in another good 12 mill, on Dec 16th, and who knows how much in the days in between until Dec. 29th.

He could have a $25 Million quarter. Paul is a serious contender in the Republican race now.

Madtown, if one main reason you support Obama for is to get our troops home, I would think you would want to see Paul get the GOP nomination, instead of the others who want more war, enemy making and nation building in the middle east.


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7659549 - 11/20/07 04:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

http://lettenyouknow.wordpress.com/2007/11/19/ron-paul-wins-nationwide-zogby-poll-by-double-digits/

You may all find this scientific Zogby poll interesting.

They gave Republican voters 4 options, based on who they are and what they stand for. No name.

Paul won it by 33%

The only thing he needs to take the lead is getting his name and message out to every elegible voter ASAP!!!


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7659681 - 11/20/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

---


Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:24 PM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7661634 - 11/21/07 05:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Those are just poll figures anyway.

For the most part, polls measure one thing: name recognition of candidates among people that voted in a previous election. Unfortunately, for people that watch polls, the Ron Paul campaign invalidates the assumption that previous voters are a good indication of future voters. A large portion of Ron Paul supporters are not previous voters, thus the polls are skewed. This is evident by the turnout of support for Ron Paul when polls are done online. The main stream media would like to pretend that the online poll results are skewed by rabid "paultards" stuffing the online ballot box. The truth is that just as fewer Ron Paul supporters will be polled in person, fewer non-Ron Paul supporters participate in online polls.

For the last few months I have been studying the candidates and their support both online and in person. Although it is difficult to tell from afar, I think Ron Paul's support may well surprise a lot of people when the primaries come around. If I were a gambler, I would wager on the long shot, Ron Paul, with a decent expectation of a good pay off.

1) Traditional polls measure name recognition among previous voters. Most people from the US that I speak with have heard the name "Ron Paul", but very few know anything about his position. The typical response I get from tourists is, "Ron Paul? Oh yeah, the guy with all the signs everywhere."

This tells me several things: 1) He polls low because people don't know anything about him and 2) He has a lot of visibility from grassroots supporters and 3) Main stream media is ignoring him and 4) People are hesitant to admit that they support Ron Paul because they don't want to be seen as a "paultard" (or more generally, people tend to claim support towards the apparent leader to save face regardless of how they really feel).

2) Online polls measure a very small segment of the population and are accurate within that segment (i.e. not a result of spamming). I continue to see "we don't include Ron Paul in our on line polls because his internet following bring in people from all over to vote thus skewing the results" type of excuses. Although the excuse is true, the person making the excuse is missing (or refusing to accept) the big picture: What happens when Ron Paul supporters do the same thing in real life at the ballot box?

3) In areas that Ron Paul has spent money to advertise and campaign, his support increases drastically (doubles) among traditional voters. Remember my claim that traditional polls measure name recognition. This is another bit of support towards that claim. Granted, single digits are single digits, but I'm guessing that any candidate would be happy to see their support double in one months time. Traditional voters will support him.

4) There are record numbers of undecided voters this election. Ron Paul pulls voters from all parties and undecided voters can easily shift to the Ron Paul campaign, especially if it starts to appear that he has a chance. Of course they can also go a different direction, but my point is that it is difficult to know what is going to happen when 80% of the people haven't made up their mind yet. Also, undecided voters are more likely to shift between parties than people that have already made up their minds.

5) Trends... One of my favorite metrics:

[url]http://www.google.com/trends?q="Hillary+Clinton"%2C+"Barack+Obama"%2C+"John+Edwards"%2C+"Bill+Richardson"%2C+"Chris+Dodd"%2C+"Joe+Biden"%2C+"Dennis+Kucinich"%2C+"Mike+Gravel"&ctab=0&geo=US&geor=all&date=ytd&sort=0[/url]

[url]http://www.google.com/trends?q="Mitt+Romney"%2C+"Rudy+Giuliani"%2C+"John+McCain"%2C+"Fred+Thompson"%2C+"Ron+Paul"&ctab=0&geo=US&geor=all&date=ytd&sort=0[/url]

[url]http://www.google.com/trends?q="Mitt+Romney"%2C+"Rudy+Giuliani"%2C+"Ron+Paul"%2C+"Hillary+Clinton"%2C+"Barack+Obama"&ctab=0&geo=US&geor=all&date=ytd&sort=0[/url]

Notice where the majority of Mitt Romney's searches come from? Utah!
Notice the trend with Ron Paul, especially in early primary states?

The base line for Ron Paul support, in the online world, was set long ago. The recent increases in searches are from traditional voters, not online spammers. This tells me that his name is starting to become more main stream and that people are serious about deciding who they are going to vote for (as opposed to voting for one of the medias favorite candidates).

6) When polling is done with names removed, Ron Paul wins. The results from the nationwide Zogby blind poll were released yesterday. Ron Paul won with 32.8% of the vote followed by Giuliani with 18.6% and Romney pulling in 15.1%.

7) Traditional support at campaign stops. Ron Paul enjoys massive support at campaign stops compared to most other candidates. A lot of these folks are "groupies" that follow the campaign around, but the majority of them are local supporters or people that want to know more about the candidate. Again, this is counter to what the traditional polls would indicate, and shows how traditional polls are flawed because of their assumptions and polling base.

8) The money... Paul has spent less than 50 cents of every dollar that has been donated to his campaign. His true numbers are also much higher than what the FEC shows because of the grassroots nature of his campaign. How many millions have been "donated" by people buying their own yard signs, volunteering their own time to petition, etc... things that other campaigns pay for out of their donations. Looking at the numbers from the FEC for the last quarter:

Romney: $9.2 million in debt
McCain: $1.7 million in debt
Thompson: $678,000 in debt
Giuliani: $169,000 in debt
Paul: $0 in debt

What does all of this mean? Nothing, yet. However, in a few short months we will know if the trends that I am seeing are wishful thinking or if my observations are more accurate than traditional polling. The huge "if" depends upon the supporters actually getting out and voting. Historically, grassroots supporters are hot air; they talk but don't vote (remember Dean?). However, I don't feel that Ron Paul's supporters are the traditional grassroots types. Most of them are highly educated professionals that are determined to be heard rather than the 'moonbats' that main stream media and various blog sites would like to pretend. Time will tell...


Zappa, I am curious what you think about this (my analysis, not the Paultards)? In the past you have given Ron Paul about the same odds as the Catholic Church adopting the FSM in place of Jesus. In the past, I would have been inclined to agree with you... however, I'm not so certain anymore. In my mind, Paul is electable where a few months ago I would have said not a chance.

(Apologies for typo's... this is long and I didn't proof read it very well...)


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7662680 - 11/21/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Even without the fife-and-drum players, they are the loudest of crowds. Even without the "Don't Tread on Me" flags and cloak-and-mask movie costumes, they are the most colorful. And Mr. Paul's supporters certainly are the most suspicious of the political process.




yes from what I'm seeing so far, yes indeed. They mean this flag:







The second one btw, is not an early version of the gadsden flag. It was flown on ships in the invasion of Iraq. I'm not sure if it's still currently being used or not. In any case, I hope you're smart enough to see it's an incredibly obvious pointer to the serpent of the bible, who Christ treads underfoot.

This, the gunpowder plot-esque "money bomb" and now this:

Quote:

Supporters have vowed to try to top that figure with "Tea Party '07," timed for Dec. 16, the anniversary of the Boston Tea Party.




I know you may be thinking, "so what?"

But if you understood the real history of the american revolution you wouldn't think that.
Quote:


During the night of December 16, 1773, a gang of Indians climbed aboard certain ships in boston harbor, ripped open three hundred forty-two of the east india company's tea chests and threw overboard their contents, valued at $ 90,000. Well, they looked like indians, and witnesses thought they were indians, but the big open secret was that they were freemasons in disguise. Perhaps the most succinct statement on the subject appears in respected masonic historian arthur edward waite's new encyclopedia of freemasonry: "The boston tea party was entirely masonic, carried out by members of the st. johns lodge during an adjourned meeting."

Parliament reacted to the boston tea party in a way calculated to increase dozens of rolling boulders into a devastating landslide. Without seriously inquiring into who was responsible, and wholly disregarding the offer of more than a hundred boston merchants to make restitution,parliament rushed into law a mass of unreasonably punitive legislation- closing the port of boston to trade, forbidding town meetings without the consent of the governor, denying the massachusetts legislature the right to choose the governors council, providing for the quartering of british and hessian troops in the colony, and ordering that any officer or soldier of the crown accused of an act of violence on the performance of his duty should be sent to another colony or to england for what surely would be a sweetheart trial.

To complete the overkill, parliament passed the quebec act, which cut off the claims of massachusetts, connecticut,virginia, and new york to their western lands, and placed these lands, to add insult to injury, under the french catholic jurisdiction of quebec.

So exaggeratedly out of proportion to the offense they were framed to punish, these notorious "intolerable acts" caused every class of american to sympathize with the tea partyers. Suddenly, independence was was no longer a radical alternative. The intolerables rendered independence the subject of sensible, serious conversation as never before.
Governor hutchinson was recalled to england and was replaced by general thomas gage, who brought an army of four thousand men to quarter in boston. gage vowed severe discipline. The colonists vowed severe resistance. "the die is cast" george III wrote to lord north. The colonies must either triumph or submit.




I am becoming more convinced than ever that ron paul is an insider and up to no good.


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663570 - 11/21/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You forgot to add to add your tinfoil hat gremlin at the end of your last post john.

Ron Paul had nothing to do with the date of the tea party Money Bomb. Some supporters were looking ahead at historical dates in the month of December to use, looking for a theme. Most Americans were taught in their public schools that the tea party was a revolt against taxation without representation.

They ran with it, big deal. You are reading to much into things.

If Paul was "in on things with the masons and NWO" agenda, you'd think someone would have a shred of evidence to support your conspiracy theory by now.

He is 72 years old, has served ten terms in congress, and not a thing Paul has done , said or voted for in his life, suggests that he is "in on it with them"

It's as if you are looking to find something "such as" with Paul, just because he is Republican. I admit, I went on my own 2 month search to find any ties to the illuminati/Bilderburger/CFR/Bohemium Grove group he made have had or has and I came up with ZILCH.

FYI, just yesterday, Pauls campaign sent out an e-mail asking supporters who were holding out waiting for the 16th to just donate ahead of time. They see the date as being hurtful to the campaign, because they need to pay up front to get comercial spots in the other early primary states, and the cost is mega millions. They already sumped millions into Iowa and NH. They need that money now and are asking people to forgo the tea party if they have it now to give.

They think comercials in the early primary states will help them to do better in them then the random 3 days of press they will get from a successful money bomb on the 16th.

Paul had nothing to do with it and the official campaign is saying it is hurting them to boot, wherever people are waiting, when they could be donating now.


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Seuss]
    #7665875 - 11/22/07 07:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
In the past you have given Ron Paul about the same odds as the Catholic Church adopting the FSM in place of Jesus.




He was also positive with quite the conviction that the Democrats wouldn't take a majority last year. :smirk:


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7665885 - 11/22/07 07:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

gettinjiggywithit said:
They gave Republican voters 4 options, based on who they are and what they stand for. No name.

Paul won it by 33%




That seems to be the percentage with which he has won the debate polls, as well. :sun:


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7665888 - 11/22/07 07:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
I am becoming more convinced than ever that ron paul is an insider and up to no good.




I'm becoming more convinced that your perspective on reality is completely skewed. :what:


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7666044 - 11/22/07 08:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

gettinjiggywithit writes:

Quote:

You may all find this scientific Zogby poll interesting.

They gave Republican voters 4 options, based on who they are and what they stand for. No name.

Paul won it by 33%




So sorry, but you are wrong. The poll to which you refer did not target "Republican voters", but a mix of Democrats, Independents and Republicans. The poll which targeted just Republicans had Ron Paul coming in dead last, by a lot.

And I shouldn't have to point out the obvious, but the poll you are referring to (of 1009 people of various political affiliations) is completely worthless because although it included Democrats and Independents as participants, not just Republicans, it offered no Democrats or Independents as choices. This is a completely unrealistic scenario in real life, since we all know it is a cast iron certainty that at least 40% of Dems are going to vote for the Dem presidential candidate in the general election no matter who the Repub candidate is, just as at least 40% of Repubs will vote for the Repub candidate no matter who the Dem candidate is.

What counts is the smaller poll done of likely Republican primary or caucus voters. Let's face it -- if Paul doesn't win the Repub nomination, he ain't gonna be the Repub candidate. So how did he do with that demographic?

Surprise surprise -- as I and so many others have been saying all along, he's dead last, by a lot. From http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1391

Quote:

The telephone survey, known as a “blind bio” poll because likely voters are given details of the candidates’ resumes without their names attached, shows Giuliani wins 34% support, compared to 22% each for Thompson and Romney. Ron Paul, who has surged recently in polls and has a significant online following, came in last with 13% support, while 9% said they were undecided on the question.




The Zogby poll of mixed Dems, Indies, and Repubs you referred to might be characterized as "scientific", but it could never be characterized as relevant.

As a side note, am I the only one here not shocked to see that the poll was commisioned by Alex Jones?




Phred


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Invisiblegettinjiggywithit
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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Phred]
    #7666521 - 11/22/07 10:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think it is relevant in that, when a cross group of Americans are shown 4 options, Paul came out ahead, of 3 other republican front runners.

True, there were no democrat options. They should have included them if the polling section was a mix. The page I linked to said it was just Voting Republicans.

I think all Jones was curious about, was to see how much of the typical polls are name recognition based and not character or issued based.

I think that poll proved that in the least.


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: gettinjiggywithit]
    #7667368 - 11/22/07 03:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The page I linked to said it was just Voting Republicans.




Of course it did. The page is a Ron Paul advocacy site. They aren't famous for their accuracy.

Look, we've seen this over and over and over again from the Paulbots. They make some outrageous claim that is absurd on the face of it (like that Paul is polling at 15% or some other unbelievable figure, based on internet polls they've spammed, while all the national polls show him at below the level of error) and all Paul's supporters lap it up without blinking. No objective observer who has been following the political scene even half-heartedly would believe that even an anonymous Ron Paul could possibly beat the other Republican candidates at all in a Republican focus group, let alone whip them by 33%. That number is just so impossible that I knew instantly it had to be bogus. And of course, it was bogus. All I had to do to show it was bogus was to go straight to Zogby's site and find what the poll actually stated, not what your site claimed it stated. These Paulbots have no shame whatsoever.

You, on the other hand, accepted it uncritically. Why? Because you want to believe it. While I admire your fervor for your chosen candidate, I deplore the effect this fervor has had on your critical faculties. Wishing doesn't make things real. You and the rest of Paul's fans are doing yourselves no favors by swallowing the Alex Jones koolaid. If you don't have a realistic grasp of where Paul is, you have no hope in hell of steering him where you want him to end up. Next time some Paulbot site trumpets the results of this poll or that poll, don't take their word for it -- go to the original source and check. You'll save yourself some embarassment.

If something sounds too good to be true, it is.




Phred


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Phred]
    #7673886 - 11/24/07 08:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There was clearly some confusion regarding the fact that Zogby had two polls, one for each group. I don't think this confusion is too baseless to justify blatant critisicm of Ron Paul supporters. Clearly, Ron Paul received less support in the one that was strictly Republican-based. Of course, the likely Republican voter poll, over the telephone, only had 389 participants. :strokebeard: The one that included Democrats and Independents had over 1000....

Who knows how the question was posed, regarding party affliation, or who they called? The fact is that Ron Paul's support transcends political lines, and, without access to hard information regarding modifying one's voter registration to vote for him in the primaries, it is safe to assume that a lot of Ron Paul's supporters are doing so/have done so in order to vote for him in the primaries.

Either way you slice it, a poll of 389 people over the telephone isn't really worth much. :shrug: The discrepancies you point towards regarding the variances in the results of some polls as compared to others clearly illustrates the differences in the viewpoints of Americans, dependent upon how they access their information. Clearly, far more individuals who support Ron Paul utilize the internet to obtain information and to make their voice heard. Media exposure for Ron Paul, up until the last month or so, has been much more scarce. Ron Paul, however, has been highly effective in utilizing the chances he does get, on debates and on Jay Leno, to convey his ideas and to be heard, and clearly this is having great effect. Name recognition alone seems to be half the battle.

More and more, throughout the mainstream media (although I admit I have limited access, USA Today at work, U.S News and World Report, washingtonpost.com, whatever else I find searching on the net...), he is being talked about. Over and over again, I keep reading, through all kinds of sources, references to a transformative force in politics, how people are really identifying with his ideas and perspective and how much of a refreshing contrast is painted when compared to the norm of other politicans, of which a great number of Americans have become quite dissatisifed with.... The fact that he raised $4.3 million in one day isn't being ignored, it is getting the mainstream media talking... I'm hearing him being referred to as a dark horse now... :smirk:

As far as I can see, it only stands to get better and better for Ron Paul, going into these first primaries. I can't wait to see what happens. :smile:


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7673933 - 11/24/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ok, then it's fair to say that both surveys were meaningless.


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Re: Washington Times on Ron Paul Supporters [Re: Redstorm]
    #7673971 - 11/24/07 09:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

For the most part, yes. :wink:


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