|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
going for it on 4th down
#7652618 - 11/18/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Ever since Pop Warner, it has driven me nuts that teams don't go for it on 4th down WAY more often. If I coached, it would be rare to see my team punt. I really believe sooner or later somebody will basically follow this strategy and it will revolutionize the game to some degree.
So when, for example, Buffalo's fans want to boo NE for going for it on 4th and 1, 4th and 3, I'm wondering why?? Don't you have a right to do what you want with your down? Is it REALLY bad sportsmanship to RISK getting no points or turning the ball over in MUCH better field position. I thought football was a gladiator sport and yet the average fan boos when they get smacked down.
Well then, stop them I say.
Off for another glass of vino. End of rant.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7652621 - 11/18/07 08:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Oops, I meant to add I'd REALLY like to hear a discussion of this tactic and all that it involves from the brilliant Sports minds here on the board.
And no, that does NOT mean you dave Wandstat.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
opensaysme
Be Here Now



Registered: 07/15/07
Posts: 1,649
Loc: NJ-NY area
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7652640 - 11/18/07 08:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Well it's simply logistics man, unless a team REALLY needs the points and it's close to the end of the game then it's way better to just punt it and hope your defense can stand ground.
That is, if you're not in range for a field goal. In which case the team would almost always go with that just to get some points on the board. Unless like said before, its a situation that requires you to attempt the fourth down conversion.
Im talking about in the NFL by the way, in NCAA its way more common and the same goes for high school ball.
|
Pat Bateman, VP
Dr. House's Inspiration



Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 50,876
Loc: Inconceivable opulence
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: opensaysme]
#7652694 - 11/18/07 09:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
-------------------- Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington; it belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican; it belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow; it belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. - Andrew Ryan
Edited by Le Narrateur (11/18/07 11:31 PM)
|
Penguarky Tunguin
f n o r d


Registered: 08/08/04
Posts: 17,192
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7652704 - 11/18/07 09:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Because a punt usually makes the other team's offense work for an additional 50 yards.
-------------------- Every mistake, intentional or otherwise, in the above post, is the fault of the reader.
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
|
That's what I'm talking about
I'm a simple guy, but if you built a team around this strategy, namely power running, I believe that it would mess up every team that you play so bad that you'd gain a huge advantage just from the game plan. Not to mention the fact that you'd have to gain, on average 33% fewer yards per down if you used all four vs. three. That's big.
It would take a LOT to get going, but I believe it would work.
But it'll never happen.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
Edited by whattheheck (11/18/07 11:23 PM)
|
Pat Bateman, VP
Dr. House's Inspiration



Registered: 10/15/04
Posts: 50,876
Loc: Inconceivable opulence
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7653081 - 11/18/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It may work for a high school squad in Arkansas, but I dunno how it would do with real competition.
-------------------- Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow? No, says the man in Washington; it belongs to the poor. No, says the man in the Vatican; it belongs to God. No, says the man in Moscow; it belongs to everyone. I rejected those answers. Instead, I chose something different. I chose the impossible. I chose... Rapture. - Andrew Ryan
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
|
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Redstorm]
#7654166 - 11/19/07 10:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I haven't read that article but my opinion is that if you are in the other teams territory and it's less than 2 yards don't punt.
--------------------
|
jewunit
Brutal!

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 34,264
Loc: Ohio
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Redstorm]
#7654205 - 11/19/07 11:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Redstorm said: This article argues the merits of not punting.
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/060926
I was thinking of the exact same article. I love TMQ.
-------------------- !
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: jewunit]
#7654267 - 11/19/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Great article. I think once you built your team up to expect it, the real players would be pumped going for it. Not to mention the extra wear on a defense. If you converted 40% of the time, and I'm not sure how many average possessions a team gets in a football game, plus a couple handfuls of non-converts, that's a LOT of extras wear and tear aon a defense.
But alas I will never be a football coach.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7654947 - 11/19/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I just want to comment on New England getting booed for going for it last night those two times.
Fuck the fans, if the team they supported were able to stop them, then they should. Unfortunately, that was not the case. New England is smart for going for it in the situations that they are because it gives them the opportunity to get smarter about it and feel more comfortable about it in situations where the outcome of a game might be on whether or not they convert the fourth down. Its like winning. The more often you are successful, the better off you are. This New England team is the scariest thing I've ever seen in my life from a football perspective. I'm kind of glad my Jets suck so that I can pay more attention to what is going on there from a more unbiased point of view. Its phenomenal and awe-inspiring shit.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#7655701 - 11/19/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Great Post = I agree with everything you say. Usually it's one of those, "yeah they're great, but maybe so and so could trip them up". I can't see this happening anyhow, anywhere. period.
It's great to watch.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
AaronEvil
The GuitarVillain



Registered: 09/27/04
Posts: 1,706
Loc: California
Last seen: 12 years, 8 months
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#7655977 - 11/19/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I agree for the most part. I love seeing teams go for it on 4th down with 5 or less yards to go. However, I think the crowd booing was more for NE going for it on 4th down when they were up by 20 points. I dont like to see a team run up a score like that for no reason. Had it been like 56-40 at the end of the game then the 56 points makes sense. I think the crowd was annoyed and pissed off with the character of the NE team and coaching staff, not the actual 4th down play itself.
Personally, I didnt really watch much past the 2nd quarter. It was the same highlight reel we are used to seeing.
Another boring NE game.
--------------------
There is not a lot of difference between a fox hole and a grave; but knowing that you dug your ditch and climbed in anyway.
|
Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: AaronEvil]
#7655988 - 11/19/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
The crowd should have been more pissed that their shitty team couldnt stop NE.
|
Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Redstorm]
#7656066 - 11/19/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Redstorm said: The crowd should have been more pissed that their shitty team couldnt stop NE.
I agree. It was obvious they were booing New England's decision to go for it on fourth down because the boos started when the teams were lining up.
Running up the score does not bother me. I agree Buffalo was cooked by that point in the game and demoralized and outright gave up but I think the situation reflects more poorly on Buffalo than it does on New England. You knew that Buffalo wasn't going to be able to stop them. A team with greater character may have been able to do that. I know I'd be pissed as hell if they were trying to run up the score on a team that I played for and would try as hard as possible to stop them regardless of the score.
I didn't like Joe Gibbs crying about it earlier this year when the Patriots ran up the score against the Redskins either. You don't like it, stop 'em.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: Senor_Doobie]
#7656102 - 11/19/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
My reply is stolen from a couple of guys who said, "This is PROFESSIONAL sports" and that's the difference.
If they were playing the Bears and going for it, I'd say, "can't blame them" just the same way I would if this juggernaut WAS the Bears team.
They're pros. Stop them if you can.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7656129 - 11/19/07 06:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
I'm a Bills fan and I am embarrassed that the stupid fucking stashoos would boo. Fuck it, let them grind our noses in the dirt this time. Next time, we cut their cocks off. If we can. There truly is a greatness, I think, to these Patriots and, especially, Bellichek. The guy IS a great coach and Don Shula is a whiny bitch.
--------------------
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: zappaisgod]
#7656422 - 11/19/07 07:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
How the heck do you take just a part of somebody's post and quote it??
Anyway, the statement that about Shula is the truth and then some. Did you all see the records of the '72 team that went 16-0?? It was awful and then some. What did he ever really do anyway?
It sucks when old men can't accept that the times have long since passed them.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
|
zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7656480 - 11/19/07 07:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
whattheheck said: How the heck do you take just a part of somebody's post and quote it??
I do it like this. See, it's easy. Quote the whole thing, highlight what you don't want to use and, poof, delete it. It saves space and keeps interest when you only want to respond to part of a post. Unlike others who chop posts to smithereens, I try to maintain the whole meaning in a somewhat coherent manner. Sometimes coherency is not inherent in the post I quote but I try to at least preserve the effort.
--------------------
|
Senor_Doobie
Snake Pit Champion



Registered: 08/11/99
Posts: 22,678
Loc: Trump Train
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: whattheheck]
#7656727 - 11/19/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
It should also be mentioned that Belicheck was taking full advantage of those downs. Like, they say, you can never simulate the game in practice. So you get to have Casil take some reps and other players who you may not know as much about in close games. Why just rest Brady and have Casil hand the ball off. Let him score some touchdowns and gain positive experiences.
-------------------- "America: Fuck yeah!" -- Alexthegreat “Nothing can now be believed which is seen in a newspaper. Truth itself becomes suspicious by being put into that polluted vehicle. The real extent of this state of misinformation is known only to those who are in situations to confront facts within their knowledge with the lies of the day.” -- Thomas Jefferson The greatest sin of mankind is ignorance. The press takes [Trump] literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally. --Salena Zeto (9/23/16)
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: zappaisgod]
#7656791 - 11/19/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
[ Sometimes coherency is not inherent]
Sounds like something eminem would rap 
Let's see if this works
Darn 6th grade education.
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
Edited by whattheheck (11/19/07 08:59 PM)
|
whattheheck
Chief Love Lover



Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
Loc: Denver Colorado
|
Re: going for it on 4th down [Re: zappaisgod]
#7656799 - 11/19/07 09:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
whattheheck said: How the heck do you take just a part of somebody's post and quote it??
Sometimes coherency is not inherent
This better work, or else.....
MONEY!! Thanks man!!
-------------------- A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton
Edited by whattheheck (11/19/07 09:01 PM)
|
|