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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Illegal Immigrants
    #7652223 - 11/18/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Wondering what some of our stances are on the issue.

Do you think measures should be taken to deport every last one of them? How might such measures work?

Do you think they should be allowed to stay? How could they be integrated effectively? Should they be given temporary work licenses and offered drivers licenses?


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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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InvisibleSilversoul
Rhizome
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7652280 - 11/18/07 07:35 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I certainly think we should take measures to secure our borders, but I also feel that it's impractical to deport them all. I think businesses who hire them should be held accountable, but I also think we should have some sort of guest worker program. I guess I'm not quite sure what needs to be done, but I'm pretty sure the extremists on both sides are full of shit(as tends to happen with extremism).


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InvisibleConservationist
Stranger
Registered: 12/02/06
Posts: 435
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Silversoul]
    #7652396 - 11/18/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

What about scaring them away by depriving them of jobs and welfare?


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Invisiblealphabeatu
Sire
Male
Registered: 11/07/07
Posts: 2,750
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7653037 - 11/18/07 11:08 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

invade mexico or cuba or where ever the fuk they come from


send your jail crack/ice heads there for rehabilitation in the sun


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i need names and addresses of narc members

pm for details

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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Posts: 23,480
Loc: Caribbean
Last seen: 1 month, 9 days
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: alphabeatu]
    #7653466 - 11/19/07 03:35 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

> Do you think measures should be taken to deport every last one of them?

Yes, including their children that were born here.

> How might such measures work?

Start by tossing the people that hire them into jail. Next, for every illegal deported allow one person that has been waiting in line legal entry into the country.

> Do you think they should be allowed to stay?

No. Do you think I should be allowed to live in your home because it is nicer than where I currently live even though you don't want me there?

> How could they be integrated effectively?

By not integrating them at all. Illegal aliens should be returned to sender.

> Should they be given temporary work licenses and offered drivers licenses?

No.


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Just another spore in the wind.

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InvisibleLe_Canard
The Duk Abides


Registered: 05/16/03
Posts: 94,392
Loc: Earthfarm 1 Flag
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7653475 - 11/19/07 03:45 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I say let them stay if they're working and earning an honest living. But make them learn english! :mad:

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Invisiblealphabeatu
Sire
Male
Registered: 11/07/07
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Le_Canard]
    #7653495 - 11/19/07 03:57 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

both are impossible


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i need names and addresses of narc members

pm for details

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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7653785 - 11/19/07 08:00 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think a huge majority should, and could, be deported.

I am also strongly against the so called 'guest worker' program. Yes, america does have jobs that need filled that native borns wont do. But why do we need foreign guest workers for that? There are many millions of people out in the world who would gladly give up their national identity, take on ours and assimilate into our culture who can do the work. Lets not bring in foreigners who only want the money to do the labor, lets bring in immigrants who want to come here to stay. Lets bring in people who want to grow roots here and gain a vested interest in the state of our nation. Those are the kinds of immigrants who make us strong. Guest workers do not do that.

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7653908 - 11/19/07 08:56 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

I think all legal immigration should also be stopped temporally for about 2 years.....as we clean up the mess that Congress has made for us over the last twenty years....when the system is revamped, allow the flow to continue.

I am all for deportation.....but logistically is it possible? What about the American citizens borne from illegals? No parents needed?
The 14th amendment makes it so......in the age of amending the Constitution how the fuck was this overlooked?


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Seuss]
    #7654026 - 11/19/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Start by tossing the people that hire them into jail. Next, for every illegal deported allow one person that has been waiting in line legal entry into the country.

Oooh, what a great idea! :thumbup:

It has the benefit of allowing greater LEGAL immigration numbers, doesn't deplete the workforce, and encourages potential immigrants to get in line like everybody else. I like!


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7654127 - 11/19/07 10:21 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

We need to start by getting control of our borders. You cannot control immigration until you control the border. Secondly, as Seuss suggested begin seriously cracking down on companies which hire them. Turn off the magnet and they will stop coming.

This is our last best chance to stop it. In a few years from now there will be so many of them that both parties will be unable to resist pandering to them for their votes and slave..er cheap labor. This process has clearly already begun. Just look at Eliot Spitzer's recent effort to give illegals drivers licenses in New York state.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7654136 - 11/19/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 4 months ago)

For the record, I also support BrAiN's hamster wheel idea.


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Edited by Silversoul (11/19/07 05:34 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Silversoul]
    #7655156 - 11/19/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

1. Lawbreakers out and go to the back of the line. Some of them can fuck off entirely.
2. Increase quotas. A lot.
3. Fire every single current INS bureaucrat. You cannot fine employers who can't get a fucking answer within a few days on whether a soc sec # closely resembles the person presenting it or whether it is even an active #. I'm sick and tired of hearing these unionized incompetent turdswallowers tell me they can't do that simple thing. They are a BIG part of the problem. If you don't believe me just consider that these are the same kind of defectives manning the DMV offices in every state of the union. Enough said.
4. No more taxpayer funded notices of any kind written in any language other than English. No free translators. No nothing. If a manufacturer wants to put 5 languages in his instruction book, fine. Government? Not fine. We are welcoming to people who want to become Americans (spare me the "No you mean USians, it's puerile). Those who don't, can fucking go back where they came from. They can have their restaurants and social clubs but there should be zero accommodation made for them outside of English classes. I'm willing to spring for that. If you don't attend or demonstrate proficiency in a reasonable amount of time....OUT.
5. Anchor babies are a disaster because of the Constitution. But no consideration should be made for their parents. At all. They can take their brats with them when they are deported or they can leave them. That's it. I'd rather keep the babies and raise them as a Americans than let their parents raise them as an expat whatever with skewed allegiances.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7655214 - 11/19/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

3. Fire every single current INS bureaucrat... If you don't believe me just consider that these are the same kind of defectives manning the DMV offices in every state of the union. Enough said.
---

I didn't realize it was THAT bad!

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: johnm214]
    #7655945 - 11/19/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

i'm telling you.... giant farms of human sized hamster balls + lots of illegal immigrants = solution to energy crisis and greencards for people that have already shown they can run long distances :wink:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: BrAiN]
    #7656104 - 11/19/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

With all of the beans you would need to feed them wouldn't that drastically increase methane levels? Methane is a much more deleterious green house gas than CO2.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7656246 - 11/19/07 06:33 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Just the INS should be booted?


http://www.nypost.com/seven/11192007/news/nationalnews/a_new_jihad_jane_725026.htm



A NEW 'JIHAD JANE'
SHE'S MARINE OFFICER
By JEANE MacINTOSH

November 19, 2007 -- The illegal immigrant with Hezbollah ties who faked a marriage to get U.S. citizenship, and then landed jobs as a top-level federal agent, has a former sister-in-law who pulled the same scam and is now a Marine officer, The Post has learned.

Commissioned Officer Samar Khalil Nabbou Spinelli married the brother of the sham first husband of disgraced former FBI and covert-ops CIA agent Nada Prouty, according to a tangled trail of public records.

The Lebanese women, who came to the United States on nonimmigrant visas, wed Michigan brothers Christopher and Jean Paul Deladurantaye in 1990, records show.

Prouty, who pleaded guilty last week to conspiracy and immigration-fraud charges, admitted in Detroit federal court that she never lived with or consummated her relationship with Chris Deladurantaye, and married him just to obtain citizenship.

A source close to the brothers told The Post both men agreed to the deal.


Spinelli and Prouty lived with Prouty's sister, Elfat El Aouar, during the time they claimed to be married, while their husbands lived elsewhere, according to public records.

Records show once their naturalization was finalized, the women filed for divorce - and went on to federal jobs.

Prouty later married Gordon Prouty.

Spinelli enlisted in the Marine in 1990 and rose to the rank of commissioned officer, which required US citizenship.

Nada Prouty used Spinelli, who is now remarried to a Marine, as a reference when she applied for an FBI job in 1997.

In court last week, Nada Prouty, who had been indicted earlier in the month, admitted she duped the FBI and CIA with her ill-gotten citizenship papers.

Spinelli - along with Nada Prouty's sister and her Hezbollah-connected husband, Talil Kahil Chahine - was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in the feds' case against Nada Prouty.

She's the only named co-conspirator who is a military officer.


As part of her plea, Nada Prouty admitted she conspired with the others to defraud the government of the "valuable benefits of citizenship," including government jobs, security clearances and "U.S. military commissions."

Newsweek reported that as part of her plea, she'll have to answer questions about her sister and brother-in-law while wired to a lie-detector machine.

Spinelli, now stationed in Japan, could not be reached for comment.

A Marine spokesman did not respond to a detailed request for comment.

Additional reporting by Liz Kelley


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“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 9 months
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7656335 - 11/19/07 07:04 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:
Just the INS should be booted?





They're are a good start.


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Edited by zappaisgod (11/19/07 07:05 PM)

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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7656440 - 11/19/07 07:32 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Quote:

zappaisgod said:
With all of the beans you would need to feed them wouldn't that drastically increase methane levels? Methane is a much more deleterious green house gas than CO2.




Insted of hamster wheels they'd have to be more like hamster balls then... with tubes to pump the methane outside our atmosphere

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: BrAiN]
    #7656516 - 11/19/07 07:50 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

METHANE HARVEST! Excellent methodology. We can hook them up with little piped diapers (say that out loud 3 times, but not with anyone else around). Each hamster wheel (beaner wheel?) can have one of those little flames too, to burn off the excess and measure their level of effort to make sure that they're up to snuff. This can only get better. Any photoshop engineers out there?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Loc: Chocolate City
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7656582 - 11/19/07 08:03 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Not a bad idea for a horrid asshole :wink:

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: BrAiN]
    #7656649 - 11/19/07 08:18 PM (16 years, 4 months ago)

Who better than me would understand?


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7657181 - 11/19/07 11:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)



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From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Registered: 10/04/05
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7659828 - 11/20/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:50 PM)

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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7660714 - 11/20/07 09:12 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I think you will find a substantial populace within America, that is not "white" and opposes illegal immigration.


My wife, who is a resident alien from the Philippines, waited 16 years to come here, as she was petitioned by her grand parents.
I have yet to find anyone who gets more enraged by the concept of illegal immigration.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
Scholar
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Posts: 3,926
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7663727 - 11/21/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:50 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7664003 - 11/21/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Holy shit.


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7664460 - 11/21/07 07:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:Well, if your wife can forgive & forget the U.S. military butchering tens of thousands of Filipino liberation fighters & civilians, & creating conditions that led to up to a million dying from war-related causes a century ago


No sane person holds a grudge for a hundred years. If that were the case, we would still hate the germans and the japanese, etc. Learning not to judge people based on the sins of their fathers is the hallmark of a progressive and enlightened society. Give it a shot, you will feel better. There is no reason to hate any group/nation for actions they did a hundred years ago. All of those people are dead.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: DieCommie]
    #7664528 - 11/21/07 07:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Not only can EP hold onto a grudge for centuries (in spite of his being 14) he can hold onto grudges for TOTALLY UNRELATED people. Not to mention the future offended. 'Cause he's all about the little children.


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OfflineBasilides
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: DieCommie]
    #7664694 - 11/21/07 08:07 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

DieCommie said:
Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:Well, if your wife can forgive & forget the U.S. military butchering tens of thousands of Filipino liberation fighters & civilians, & creating conditions that led to up to a million dying from war-related causes a century ago


No sane person holds a grudge for a hundred years. If that were the case, we would still hate the germans and the japanese, etc. Learning not to judge people based on the sins of their fathers is the hallmark of a progressive and enlightened society. Give it a shot, you will feel better. There is no reason to hate any group/nation for actions they did a hundred years ago. All of those people are dead.




Quoted for truth.

America should be hated only for what it's currently doing today.


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"Have you found the beginning, then, that you are looking for the end? You see, the end will be where the beginning is. Congratulations to the one who stands at the beginning: that one will know the end and will not taste death."

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: DieCommie]
    #7666641 - 11/22/07 11:15 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:52 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7674010 - 11/24/07 09:45 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Deporting them all would be a massive waste of money, and who would pick all of our vegetables? You may not like them, but they have their place here.

I think the first step in immigration reform would be to make immigration here easier. Maybe not return it to the potato famine days, but make it easier for average people to come here and work the jobs we don't have the manpower to do.

After that, deport any immigrants who break the law (aside from illegal immigration) first. If they aren't coming here because they want to work to help America, then they just don't need to be here as far as I'm concerned.

As for the ones who really are here to work, and be a part of the economy, sign them up into some sort of "transitional citizenship" that would act as a form of probation. They would be required to prove that they paid taxes, worked, and it would be made sure of that they did not commit any crimes while here. Learning English could also be an option for something like this, although I don't think it would be necessary (eventually, their kids will learn English, if not their kids, their kids kids, it has happened with every other wave of immigrants, regardless of its size. After they had gone through some time in this transitional state, they would be offered full citizenship, but not until all of the requirements of the probation had been met (back taxes, ect)

By doing this, we could still have the benefits of having immigrants in the workforce, while also making sure that those immigrants are of the same quality as those who we would normally let in legally. There's not much point to spending money deporting the good ones, only to spend more money to let them back in.

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: xFrockx]
    #7674115 - 11/24/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:52 PM)

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OfflinexFrockx
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7674705 - 11/24/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Sorry, I just hit the general "reply" button, so it ended up crediting it to you, If anything it was directed at zappa, but not really.

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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: xFrockx]
    #7674723 - 11/24/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Sorry, I just hit the general "reply" button, so it ended up crediting it to you, If anything it was directed at zappa, but not really.




Why me? If you check my first post you will see I mostly agree with you. I just want to replace the criminals with people who do it properly. I think you do too. Since when is law enforcement too expensive? You either have laws and enforce them or you don't have them at all.


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OfflineSirTripAlot
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7676011 - 11/24/07 08:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:

My wife, who is a resident alien from the Philippines... I have yet to find anyone who gets more enraged by the concept of illegal immigration.




You're not married to Michelle Malkin by any chance, are you?


Well, if your wife can forgive & forget the U.S. military butchering tens of thousands of Filipino liberation fighters & civilians, & creating conditions that led to up to a million dying from war-related causes a century ago... even though the same power structure responsible for what happened there remains wholly intact still today, & even though U.S. soldiers are still stationed there & U.S. military bases exist on Filipino land... then more power to her. I know I wouldn't, & don't.





You have no concept of the Philippines or the culture. They have about as much animosity for Spain as the USA.Your blind hatred for America spills out as dribble on just about every post ad nauseam. For your information, MacArthur is looked at as a national hero, as there are numerous shrines and monuments to him, and the Americans that died, while killing the Japanese troops.


For you to suggest my wife is Michelle Mulkin, shows and demonstrates not only your inability to contribute anything halfway intelligible to this forum, but your outright disrespect.

I am sure others here agree.


--------------------
“I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.”

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Offlineledfut
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7676075 - 11/24/07 08:55 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

make it so that companies have to pay illegals at least minimum wage. then the incentive to hire them is gone.


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May our only occupation be not having a job.
May the only cocktails that we make be molitov.
-Johnny Hobo and the Freight Trains

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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: xFrockx]
    #7676213 - 11/24/07 09:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Deporting them all would be a massive waste of money, and who would pick all of our vegetables?




Plenty of people, if paid a decent wage.

No deportation necessary- turn off the job magnet and most will return to their countries of origin.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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InvisibleEntheogenicPeace
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7676308 - 11/24/07 10:22 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You're right; that comment was completely uncalled for. It was especially insincere given how vile & hateful Michelle Malkin is. I apologize & it won't happen again.

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:55 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7676422 - 11/24/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Ah, you're right, sorry. I don't agree with this though:

"Anchor babies are a disaster because of the Constitution. But no consideration should be made for their parents. At all. They can take their brats with them when they are deported or they can leave them. That's it. I'd rather keep the babies and raise them as a Americans than let their parents raise them as an expat whatever with skewed allegiances."

If their parents were criminals (aside from being illegal immagrants) I would agree. I just don't see much point in sending law abiding citizens back to their country, only to allow them to come back once they do everything officially. There's no reason we can't process them here before we waste money shipping their ass to the border.

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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7676865 - 11/25/07 03:50 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:Considering the Nazi holocaust happened 60-70 years ago, I suspect all sane Jews will cease their current negative views of Nazism & make amends with it in the following few decades.





Guess where, last I heard, most tourists to Israel hailed from?


Here's a hint, 65 years ago they were killing jews by the trainload.


But of course, in your ultimately fair world, people would be punished, beaten, whipped, chained down for the sins of people who died long before they were born. So long as those people being punished where white. AMIRITE! yeah i'm right.

Quote:

xFrockx said:
Ah, you're right, sorry. I don't agree with this though:

"Anchor babies are a disaster because of the Constitution. But no consideration should be made for their parents. At all. They can take their brats with them when they are deported or they can leave them. That's it. I'd rather keep the babies and raise them as a Americans than let their parents raise them as an expat whatever with skewed allegiances."

If their parents were criminals (aside from being illegal immagrants) I would agree. I just don't see much point in sending law abiding citizens back to their country, only to allow them to come back once they do everything officially. There's no reason we can't process them here before we waste money shipping their ass to the border.




You're right, but we must first stop people from being able to walk across some line and claim citizenship by squirting out a kid.


There's no reason to shove gloved fingers into the orifices of American citizens in airports if all you need to do to sneak something into this country is head to Mexico and go for a hike.

.. there's probably no reason to do that to begin with, but you see my point. Our scrutiny is a bit misguided. We're in a sinking ship and checking passangers for rocks, while there's a huge crack in the hull.


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InvisibleEllisDSox
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7677001 - 11/25/07 06:24 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Why does anyone care whether or not the immigrants are going to stay forever? They're doing jobs that US-born people refuse to do, for pay that most people born in the states would consider a pittance.

Whether they later spend the money they earnt in the US or in their home country is pretty irrelevent.


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EllisDSox]
    #7677764 - 11/25/07 12:43 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

They're doing jobs that US-born people refuse to do, for pay that most people born in the states would consider a pittance.



Selling drugs?

My parents live near Hazleton, a small city in Pennsylvania you may have heard of in the news. I was never much wild about the city to begin with but in the last 4 years or so it's become a real heap of trash. There's been a large influx of illegal immigrants here since then.

The biggest problems around here in the past were domestic disputes and drunk driving. Now it's regular to know somebody who's had their car hijacked by someone with a knife or a gun. They live a dozen to a row-home and terrorize their neighbors, blocking off streets with their cars and making anyone who wants to pass through pay a toll, letting dogs out of gated yards to run around in busy city streets, etc.

Public schools are packed to twice their capacity and can't meet their needs because of the proportionally decreased local tax revenue. For the first time, sales of hard/dirty drugs like crack and crystal meth are unbelievably huge. Busts happen occasionally, and I imagine the people involved end up in our prisons.

A few grocery stores and a pizzeria or two have opened so it's not all bad. And as far as I know these statements only apply to the situation in this area, but those are a few reasons people might care about what's happening in their neighborhood.


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: SirTripAlot]
    #7677848 - 11/25/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

SirTripAlot said:

I am sure others here agree.




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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7685509 - 11/27/07 11:08 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:56 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: elbisivni]
    #7686420 - 11/27/07 03:17 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

illegal immigrants should be deported if they commit a crime once they enter the country. ie stealing or killing. they should be required to pay taxes and be brought into the system and out of the shadows as quickly as possible. the way i see immigrants is that our american culture will eventually encompass theirs adding the parts we like and excluding the parts we don't like. just like we did with every other major immigration into the U.S. if they refuse to integrate go ahead and check the riot thread about france because they will get left behind.


--------------------
"Life sucks but in this really beautiful way" - Axl Rose
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7692618 - 11/28/07 08:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:While a lot of liberal & progressive (& to be fair some libertarians) white people may condemn the ideology & the practice, it still remains intact & their tax dollars help with that. Even so, there are more 'conservative' (i.e. white supremacist) white people in the U.S. than the previous categories I mentioned.




So then, for the sake of argument let's assume all your big evil white man stuff is true. I don't feel like nitpicking at it, and just for this example I'll go along with all of it.

Are you saying that the inability to prevent others from committing atrocities and sins against humanity makes you as guilty of those crimes as those who committed them?
Punish all white Americans because other white Americans were evil, that's what I'm getting here.

How about if I changed it to -- Punish all Muslims because other Muslims were evil.


Think about that.

Some Americans did bad things. With support from many people, and with many people opposed to their actions. But here, you're saying they are just as guilty -- because they were unable to stop bad things from happening.
Well it turns out, some Muslims did bad things, others were opposed to those actions but weren't able to stop them from happening.
Some Mexicans do bad things, but not all Mexicans are real big fans of that shit.
Every single culture in the history of mankind has done terrible things to other people. Try to find one that hasn't.
Collectively, we're all guilty as hell of anything you can imagine and many things you can't.
Individually, we're not.

That's why the sort of hatemongering you do really tends to get absolutely nothing accomplished.. unless, I don't know, you're making a bid for Fuhrer. Fair game, you brought up the Nazis first.


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7692833 - 11/28/07 09:38 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:57 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7692956 - 11/28/07 10:14 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

EntheogenicPeace said:
Therefore, every U.S. taxpayer whose pays income tax & benefits at least somewhat (not nearly as much as corporate executives & large shareholders, of course) from this global militarist system is guilty to some extent.





And what of foreign nations and peoples who benefit from the american global militarist system?
How about, for instance.... Mexico? Illegal mexican immigrants? After all, were it not for the american global militarist system they would not have a border to cross to find better wages.


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #7695666 - 11/29/07 05:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:58 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7702196 - 12/01/07 09:52 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

yeh all I got to say is people who say they should be deported just because they weren't given a snobby get anything you want life like us lazy americans who don't aprreciate shit and take everthing for granted. Most Illegals i meet have much better morals don't do drugs they have respect for alot of people and can take way more shit than any white kid who can't work for shit and goes to school studies makes 100g's and spend all on himself when he could help out his family like every illegal immigrants mission is, to help his community.

the real solution is when your kid turns 14 send him to mexico or whatever country that will accept the kid and you'll get back the hardest motherfucken worker ever.

I have personally worked in 3 illegal work enviroments, and in every single instance i have seen and immigrant carry the work load of 2 people because we got the lazy american taking his 10th ciggarette break of the day.

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Rylmonkey]
    #7702200 - 12/01/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Rylmonkey said:
yeh all I got to say is people who say they should be deported just because they weren't given a snobby get anything you want life like us lazy americans who don't aprreciate shit and take everthing for granted.  Most Illegals i meet have much better morals don't do drugs they have respect for alot of people and can take way more shit than any white kid who can't work for shit and goes to school studies makes 100g's and spend all on himself when he could help out his family like every illegal immigrants mission is, to help his community.






:macdre:

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Rylmonkey]
    #7702432 - 12/01/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

yeh all I got to say is people who say they should be deported just because they weren't given a snobby get anything you want life like us lazy americans who don't aprreciate shit and take everthing for granted. Most Illegals i meet have much better morals don't do drugs they have respect for alot of people and can take way more shit than any white kid who can't work for shit and goes to school studies makes 100g's and spend all on himself when he could help out his family like every illegal immigrants mission is, to help his community.

the real solution is when your kid turns 14 send him to mexico or whatever country that will accept the kid and you'll get back the hardest motherfucken worker ever.

I have personally worked in 3 illegal work enviroments, and in every single instance i have seen and immigrant carry the work load of 2 people because we got the lazy american taking his 10th ciggarette break of the day.




So working hard gives people the right to break our laws?


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: Rylmonkey]
    #7702551 - 12/01/07 11:54 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:58 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zorbman]
    #7702573 - 12/01/07 12:02 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:59 PM)

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: EntheogenicPeace]
    #7702671 - 12/01/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

Why the inconsistency in reverence for "the law"? If "illegals" who are willing to work harder & longer, & are more dependable than U.S. citizens in doing often strenuous labor should be deported because it's against "the law", then shouldn't non-violent "drug" users be arrested & imprisoned since that's also what "the law" says?




If American citizens do not like a particular law they are free to change that law using legal methods. If everyone disobeyed every law they disagreed with we would have mob rule. In spite of its imperfections I prefer the rule of law over chaos.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch

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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zorbman]
    #7702942 - 12/01/07 02:08 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:


If American citizens do not like a particular law they are free to change that law using legal methods. If everyone disobeyed every law they disagreed with we would have mob rule. In spite of its imperfections I prefer the rule of law over chaos.




I don't prefer the rule of law or chaos over either. I prefer the rule of understanding, awareness. Conscious decisions, being aware of the nature of reality, one's actions, and the subsequent effects they have in choosing the course for reality to flow. Law is a centralized sense of order that is projected through force, and abiding by it simply because of its authority is senseless. Far better to be a conscious, realized being that can understand one's environment and act in effective, sustainable manners than to engage in the folly of law, an obstruction upon natural order. :mushroom2:


--------------------
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If I should die this very moment
I wouldn't fear
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7702992 - 12/01/07 02:26 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Sounds like someones been visiting the Philosophy forum. :mushroom2:


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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zorbman]
    #7703089 - 12/01/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

---

Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:59 PM)

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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: zorbman]
    #7703182 - 12/01/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

zorbman said:
Sounds like someones been visiting the Philosophy forum. :mushroom2:




If there's a rehab program for that we need to get this boy in there stat.  Perhaps even an intervention.  INCOMING!!!!!!!    Sorry, got carried away there.  Carry on.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Illegal Immigrants [Re: fireworks_god]
    #7703206 - 12/01/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

fireworks_god said:
Quote:


If American citizens do not like a particular law they are free to change that law using legal methods. If everyone disobeyed every law they disagreed with we would have mob rule. In spite of its imperfections I prefer the rule of law over chaos.




I don't prefer the rule of law or chaos over either. I prefer the rule of understanding, awareness. Conscious decisions, being aware of the nature of reality, one's actions, and the subsequent effects they have in choosing the course for reality to flow. Law is a centralized sense of order that is projected through force, and abiding by it simply because of its authority is senseless. Far better to be a conscious, realized being that can understand one's environment and act in effective, sustainable manners than to engage in the folly of law, an obstruction upon natural order. :mushroom2:





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