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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: kotik]
    #7659696 - 11/20/07 04:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Gummint health care is a fascist plot.

In my very first post I offered options.  One of them was homeschooling.

Kotik:

So you're one of the wimps with me on ignore.  You aren't missing much because I rarely post in any of the deranged dipshit forums or OTD.  Anyway, where do you go to Witness?  Oh, I forgot, you won't see the question.  You won't see this either.:bluemoon:


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: LunarEclipse]
    #7663394 - 11/21/07 02:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Why don't they not allow them in school when the child actually has a disease? Stay away from public schools imo.

I've heard comments that they are making it a prerequisite to go to public schools. Then why would they go so far to sentence the parents to jail time?

I do not trust vaccines, I do not trust the pharmacutical industry.

Noone has the right to stick a needle in my kids arm without my permission. Whether there is methyl mercury or not, people should have the right to choose such things. The greater good is not at risk, and anyone who tells you it is is spouting fear mongering propoganda.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663427 - 11/21/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Why don't they not allow them in school when the child actually has a disease?

Because sickness has this thing called incubation period where you are contagious to others, but you do not yet show signs of illness... thus if you wait until a child actually shows signs of the disease, it is too late, and a good portion of the other students at the school will be infected as well.

I suppose I don't have a problem with parents not vaccinating their children as long as they are willing to pay for all the medical costs should an outbreak occur, including the lost wages of parents that have to stay home to care for their sick children.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Seuss]
    #7663488 - 11/21/07 03:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Because sickness has this thing called incubation period where you are contagious to others, but you do not yet show signs of illness... thus if you wait until a child actually shows signs of the disease, it is too late, and a good portion of the other students at the school will be infected as well.




I see. So then would you intend for children to be vaccinated from all diseases? After all, every unvaccinated child in your opinion is a health risk. Here's a list for you:

Quote:

Viral infectious diseases

AIDS – AIDS Related Complex – Chickenpox (Varicella) – Common cold – Cytomegalovirus Infection – Colorado tick fever – Dengue fever – Ebola hemorrhagic fever – Hand, foot and mouth disease – Hepatitis – Herpes simplex – Herpes zoster – HPV – Influenza (Flu) – Lassa fever – Measles – Marburg hemorrhagic fever – Infectious mononucleosis – Mumps – Poliomyelitis – Progressive multifocal leukencephalopathy – Rabies – Rubella – SARS – Smallpox (Variola) – Viral encephalitis – Viral gastroenteritis – Viral meningitis – Viral pneumonia – West Nile disease – Yellow fever

[edit] Bacterial infectious diseases

Anthrax – Bacterial Meningitis – Botulism – Brucellosis – Campylobacteriosis – Cat Scratch Disease – Cholera – Diphtheria – Epidemic Typhus – Gonorrhea – Impetigo– Legionellosis – Leprosy (Hansen's Disease) – Leptospirosis – Listeriosis – Lyme disease – Melioidosis – MRSA infection – Nocardiosis – Pertussis (Whooping Cough) – Plague – Pneumococcal pneumonia – Psittacosis – Q fever – Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever (RMSF) – Salmonellosis – Scarlet Fever – Shigellosis – Syphilis – Tetanus – Trachoma – Tuberculosis – Tularemia – Typhoid Fever – Typhus– Urinary Tract Infections

[edit] Parasitic infectious diseases

African trypanosomiasis – Amebiasis – Ascariasis – Babesiosis – Chagas Disease – Clonorchiasis – Cryptosporidiosis – Cysticercosis – Diphyllobothriasis – Dracunculiasis – Echinococcosis – Enterobiasis – Fascioliasis – Fasciolopsiasis – Filariasis – Free-living amebic infection – Giardiasis – Gnathostomiasis – Hymenolepiasis – Isosporiasis – Kala-azar – Leishmaniasis – Malaria – Metagonimiasis – Myiasis – Onchocerciasis – Pediculosis – Pinworm Infection – Scabies – Schistosomiasis – Taeniasis – Toxocariasis – Toxoplasmosis – Trichinellosis – Trichinosis – Trichuriasis – Trichomoniasis – Trypanosomiasis

[edit] Fungal infectious diseases

Aspergillosis – Blastomycosis – Candidiasis – Coccidioidomycosis – Cryptococcosis – Histoplasmosis – Tinea pedis


[edit] Prion infectious diseases

transmissible spongiform encephalopathy – Bovine spongiform encephalopathy – Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease – Kuru–Fatal Familial Insomnia–Alpers Syndrome –





No, the problem should be solved by promoting healthy eating and lifestyle. Healthy bodies are more resistant to diseases than an unhealthy body with a vaccine.

Vaccination is a disaster waiting to happen. It reminds me of the potato famine. What will people do when they cannot any longer afford the vaccines because of the extreme measures taken to scientifically study and find a vaccine that supposedly works and is safe or when a vaccine is no longer a feasable solution and the people's bodies have come to depend on them?


Edited by jonathan_206 (11/21/07 03:25 PM)


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Seuss]
    #7663659 - 11/21/07 04:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Why don't they not allow them in school when the child actually has a disease?

Because sickness has this thing called incubation period where you are contagious to others, but you do not yet show signs of illness... thus if you wait until a child actually shows signs of the disease, it is too late, and a good portion of the other students at the school will be infected as well.

I suppose I don't have a problem with parents not vaccinating their children as long as they are willing to pay for all the medical costs should an outbreak occur, including the lost wages of parents that have to stay home to care for their sick children.




But the children whose parents have vaccinated them won't get sick, right? So the only impact will be on the "bad" parents.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Veritas]
    #7663676 - 11/21/07 04:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> But the children whose parents have vaccinated them won't get sick, right? So the only impact will be on the "bad" parents.

True, but I suspect the "bad" parents are the ones that are most vocal for socialized medicine (though I could be wrong; bad of me to stereotype). As I said, as long as the parents of the sick kids are willing to bear the cost, instead of me, then I don't care what they do.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Seuss]
    #7663759 - 11/21/07 04:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Most "hippie" parents are not in favor of Western medicine at all, so socialized medicine would not benefit them.  The best insurance is to stay healthy! 

Again, if we're going to talk about taxpayers bearing the brunt of other people's risky health practices, we have to look at the enormous cost of the Standard American Diet and lifestyle.  Private health insurance rates in the U.S. reflect the outrageous increase in medical costs experienced by overweight, sedentary Americans.  Those of us who might want health insurance to protect them in case of an accident, but who live a healthy lifestyle, must bear the brunt of the aging, ailing Baby Boomers. 

Shall we make eating at fast food restaurants punishable by 10 days in jail?  How about a sedentary lifestyle?  Run around the block NOW or it's jail for you, buddy!  :lol:


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7663798 - 11/21/07 04:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:


I suppose I don't have a problem with parents not vaccinating their children as long as they are willing to pay for all the medical costs should an outbreak occur, including the lost wages of parents that have to stay home to care for their sick children.




Care to address that part of the post? You seemed to have missed it, Jonathan.


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Invisiblesleepy
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Registered: 01/17/05
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Redstorm]
    #7663853 - 11/21/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i think we are forgetting that its the virus' fault here


when will the virus have to answer for its actions?


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Invisiblemachination
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Registered: 09/17/07
Posts: 705
Loc: Hringhorni
Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: sleepy]
    #7663953 - 11/21/07 05:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

when i can significantly alter genetic code with my brain waves


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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Offlinezappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
Last seen: 7 years, 7 months
Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: sleepy]
    #7663998 - 11/21/07 05:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

sleepy said:
i think we are forgetting that its the virus' fault here


when will the virus have to answer for its actions?





15 seconds after it opens a bank account anywhere in the world there will be so many lawyers all over it that it will....say......wait a minute......yes, I have it.....we'll use lawyers to suffocate all viruses. The perfect multipurpose vaccine. Send my prize to 606-0842 Nobel Drive, America Fuck Yeah, OU812


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Redstorm]
    #7664765 - 11/21/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

suess:

I suppose I don't have a problem with parents not vaccinating their children as long as they are willing to pay for all the medical costs should an outbreak occur, including the lost wages of parents that have to stay home to care for their sick children.




redstorm:

Care to address that part of the post? You seemed to have missed it, Jonathan.




I suppose that will do fine for any serious infectious disease, but that doesn't seem reasonable for simple colds and flus. If you go to some place with other people you should prepare to get dirty, although parents should have the sick child stay at home. That's the real reason so many flus and colds get around in schools and work. Because they're sick and they know they're sick but they go anyway.

Also, if you vaccinate your kid that does not garauntee your child won't get sick so you would also have to be prepared to pay other kids parents also.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7665225 - 11/21/07 11:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Can anybody explain why the non-thiomersal vaccines are a problem for the anti vaccine crowd?

What is the argument against these?

In my mind, as long as the health regulations are reasonable (i.e. they don't skip vaccinations for more common illnesses but require them for less common without reason (i.e. increased severety)) they are fine. If the parents don't like it, home school or private school

I think jail is excessive though. We are to quick to criminalize everything. Just send the kid home. If the kid keeps coming back, fine the parents for the cost of transport. Problem solved. Why deal with jail unless you want to be an asshole get-tough-on-hippy politician?


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OfflineMushmonkey
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: johnm214]
    #7665646 - 11/22/07 03:06 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the jail time would probably be not for refusal to vaccinate but for a truant child.
it's not exactly OK to just up and not have SOME sort of schooling for your kid. I'm going out on a limb here but I doubt these parents are willing to homeschool.


The danger of an unvaccinated population is that vaccinations aren't 100% complete immunity forever from the disease. They knock your immune system up to the point we don't have outbreaks, but if enough unvaccinated people are around that a disease spreads.. vaccinated people may get caught up in it. Which wouldn't happen if those unvaccinated people had been vaccinated, since the disease wouldn't have been able to establish a foothold.


FYI, john, your list of diseases?

If we had vaccinations for half of those you bet your ass I'd get them.

A practically imperceptible risk through vaccination compared to, say, HIV? Or how about Lyme, since I'm in the woods often?

FUCK yeah. Sign me up. Give me a Herpes vaccine while you're at it.

The odds of your health being harmed by vaccination are much, much, much less than the odds of your health being harmed by living in an unvaccinated population.

And to make some sort of claim that since everyone ELSE is vaccinated, you don't need to be, is flat-out unquestionably selfish. We all know the risks -- and they're not near as bad as they're made out to be by fearmongers as evident by all the hubbula around the mercury in vaccinations being based on... nothing -- but we all know the risk of vaccination is FAR FAR FAR less than the risk of NOT vaccinating.

There are two choices -- vaccinate everybody or vaccinate nobody. "Vaccinate everybody except me"?

Honestly. Read that again. "Vaccinate everybody except me".


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revel in its glory and quake in fear at its might
grar.


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OfflineKestrelj
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Registered: 07/30/09
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Mushmonkey]
    #10826076 - 08/09/09 02:20 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

Quote:

Mushmonkey said:
uh, they are needed.  measles, mumps, rubella..  they're still around.  polio is still around, even.  most things you're vaccinated against, are still around.  you don't hear about them because they're rare -- BECAUSE of vaccinations.  since they're still out in the wild, if a sufficiently-sized population of unvaccinated individuals were to encounter one of them?

mix, stir, add water, instant epidemic.

that's how it works.




I would NEVER disagree that some vaccines are necessary, but I believe that it is foolhardy to force 3, and 4, and 5, and 6, or 7 or8 vaccines on the immune system at one time.  The insult is just too great.

Now, if they want to give the immune system time to deal with them 1 or 2 vaccines at a time I have very much less problem with that, than I do pumping ANYBODY, man, woman, or child, full of toxic vaccines that can cause them to actually catch the disease that they are being vaccinated for, and that happens when you give so many vaccines at the same time that you over-load the immune system.

It isn't rare, and it's NOT a fluke.  It's stupid planning on the part of the government.

So, yeah, let's have the reasonable vaccines, and space them far enough apart that they don't impact the immune system.


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Offlinerobcypher
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Re: Forced Vaccinations or 10 Days In Jail [Re: Veritas]
    #10826958 - 08/09/09 10:14 AM (14 years, 5 months ago)

I like the lack of thinking in this thread.


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