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a_guy_named_ai
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happy thanksgiving?
#7647931 - 11/17/07 03:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is another american holiday coming up soon, and I thought it was a good idea to look into it. Not suprisingly, like so many other "holidays", it is traced back to pagan religion, babylonian to be exact.
Here is an interesting article on the roots of this event and how it was not celebrated for the first time with the pilgrims, but goes back thousands of years to ancient harvest festivals that worshipped the "queen of heaven" and ceres (who are the same, both psuedonyms of "semiramis" the whore from erech who's adoltarous cult has been spoken of and against in scripture, the great whore, the abominable plague that everyone worships who does not abide in Christ, because the "god" of this world has blinded them, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.
Quote:
You read and you decide...
From a Daily Illini Editorial, 11/20/95
"Ah, Thanksgiving. There's nothing like going home to visit your folks, watching pro football, eating more food than you see in the average month at school and starting your shopping for the upcoming, commercialized holiday.
"But this week, as you drool at the sight of the traditional turkey with your relatives, you can either sit quietly and talk only when asked your major, or impress them with some facts about the true historical context of Thanksgiving. Consider these two myths and facts:
"* Myth: Thanksgiving was a holiday initiated by the early Pilgrims, who invited Native Americans to share in their bounty.
"Fact: Thanksgiving had its origins in autumn harvest festivals celebrated by eastern tribes of Native Americans. The modern American Thanksgiving dates back to 1863, when Abraham Lincoln declared it a national holiday."
"Additionally, it was the Pilgrims who were apparently in need of assistance when they first arrived here. One colonist's journal tells of Pilgrim sailors stealing from Native Americans as soon as they arrived in the New World. Other journals tell of Pilgrims plundering Native Americans' fields and robbing their graves.
"Daily Illini Online -- UIUC -- 1995/November/20 Copyright (c) 1995 Illini Media Company, all rights reserved."
SHOULD YAHWIST'S OBSERVE THANKSGIVING?
The following are sources John D. Keyser compiled under the above title, about the pagan roots of Thanksgiving Day, the following from the book, Holidays Around the World, by Joseph Gaer:
" 'We often think of Thanksgiving as an American holiday, begun by the Pilgrims in Plymouth in 1621. At that time, so the story runs, the survivors of the Mayflower passengers celebrated their first harvest in the New World with a feast to which Governor Bradford invited the Indian Chief Massasoit and ninety of his braves.
'That was the first Thanksgiving Day in the New World. But actually a thanksgiving for the annual harvest is one of the oldest holidays known to mankind, though celebrated on different dates. In Chaldea, in ancient Egypt and in Greece, the harvest festival was celebrated with great rejoicing. The Hindus and the Chinese observe the gathered harvest with a holiday. And the Jews celebrate the ingathering of the crops as enjoined upon them in Torah.
" 'The Romans celebrated their Thanksgiving early in October. The holiday was dedicated to the goddess of harvest, Ceres, and the holiday was called Cerelia.
" 'The [false] Christians took over the Roman holiday and it became well established in England, where some of the Roman customs and rituals for this day were observed long after the Roman Empire had disappeared.
" 'In England the 'Harvest Home' has been observed continuously for centuries. The custom was to select a harvest queen for this holiday. She was decorated with the grain of their fields and the fruit of their trees. On Thanksgiving Day she was paraded through the streets in a carriage drawn by white horses. This was a remnant of the Roman ceremonies in honor of Ceres...the Pilgrims brought the "Harvest in" to Massachusetts.' (Little, Brown & Company, Boston, 1953. Pps. 159- 160)." [The harvest queen represented the Queen of Heaven, mentioned in the Bible as idolatrous and Semiramis.]
Marian Schibsly and Hanny Cohrsen in their book, Foreign Festival Customs and Dishes:
" 'Giving thanks for the bounty of Providence is a practice as old as mankind and widespread as the human race. Long before the Christian era, harvest gods were worshipped with curious and varied rites. Customs now in use at harvest festivals have their counterparts in pagan countries; in many cases their origin and their significance is shrouded in mists of antiquity. The American Thanksgiving Day is usually ascribed to the Massachusetts colony of pilgrims, who, in gratitude for their first harvest on American soil, devoted the day of December 13, 1621 to praise and rejoicing. [Actually ran 3 days]
'The idea underlying such a celebration did, however, not originate with them. Thanksgiving day -- by that or some other name -- was known to virtually all the people who have come to America since 1492 and is known to those now coming...it becomes apparent that a day of thanksgiving is a custom in almost all the countries of Europe. It usually has to do with the harvests -- with the planting of crops or their gathering -- and therefore is observed in rural districts rather than in cities. (American Council For Nationalities Service, N.Y. 1974. P.46).' "
PAGAN SYMBOLS OF THANKSGIVING DAY
A goose used to be the main course for harvest festivals and was replaced by the more common turkey in America with the Indians first. These birds representing the sun god or the Son of god, an imitation of the Son of God slain for others. Actually the symbols derived all the way back to Nimrod and Semiramis. Words from Wilkinson, an Egyptologist:
'The goose,' says Wilkinson, 'signified in hieroglyphics A CHILD OR SON;' and Horapollo says (i.53, p.276), 'It was chosen TO DENOTE A SON, from its love to its young, being always ready to give itself up to the chasseur[hunter], in order that they might be preserved; for which reason the Egyptians thought it right to revere this animal.' (Wilkinson's Egyptians, vol. v., p. 227)."
Pumpkin is used as a symbol for the sun and is also prominent in Halloween, replacements in the Western Hemisphere. The sacred goose of Europe was used if available, but turkeys were more prevalent so were substituted for them with the same idea derived from pagan harvest festivals.
"Chopped Up Meat & the Death of Osiris!
"According to Diana Appelbaum, 'Of the infinite variety of pies, two, the pumpkin and the mince, are intimately associated with Thanksgiving dinner.... There is no more quintessential Thanksgiving dish than mince meat pie, and yet, unlike the native pumpkin pie, mince meat was a tradition borrowed from the Christmas feasts of merry old England. Puritans in both England and America banned Christmas; the "high-shoe lords of Cromwell's making" frowned on all of the ancient Yuletide customs: "Plum broth was Popish, and mince pie--that was flat idolatry!"
'But by the early 1700s, mince pie was enshrined in the New England Thanksgiving menu.' (Thanksgiving: An American Holiday, An American History, pps. 270-27l)."
"The chopping of the meat was an ANNUAL RITUAL and REPRESENTED THE CHOPPING UP OF OSIRIS' BODY by Shem!"
"John Brand Bourne thinks the original of both these customs [the harvest feast and the revelry that followed] is Jewish, and cites Hospinian, who tells us that the heathens copied after this custom of the Jews, and at the end of the harvest offered up their first fruits to the gods. For the Jews rejoiced and feasted at the getting in of the harvest. (Observations on the Popular Antiquities of Great Britain, George Bell & Sons, 1908. P. 16.)."
"Marian Schibsby and Hanny Cohrsen also noticed the Thanksgiving-
Tabernacles connection--'Many centuries before a day for nationwide thanksgiving and prayer was established in this country, the Jewish people observed such a custom. One of the most important Jewish festivals is that of the "Feast of Tabernacles," also called the "Feast of Ingathering" or "Succoth," which begins on the fifteenth day of the seventh month, the month of Tishri -- that is sometime between the last week of September and the middle of October. It marks the end of the harvest "after that thou hast gathered in from thy threshing floor and from thy wine press" (Deut. xvi, 13,16, RV) and is a season of joyousness and gratitude for the bounty of nature in the year that has passed.' (Foreign Festival Customs and Dishes, American Council for Nationalities Service, N.Y. 1974, P.53).
"Let me repeat what author Robert Schauffler said about the Grecian THESMOPHORIA: 'The harvest festival of ancient Greece, called the Thesmophoria, was akin to the Jewish Feast of Tabernacles.. It was the feast of Demeter...' In Rome, the same feast occurred in October and began with a fast day -- the pagan equivalent of the Day of Atonement!
'On their return a festival occurred for three days in Athens, sad at first but gradually growing into an orgy of mirth and dancing. Here a cow and a sow were offered to Demeter, besides fruit and honeycombs. The symbols of the goddess were poppies and ears of corn, a basket of fruit and a little pig. The Romans worshipped this harvest deity under the name of Ceres. Her festival, which occurred yearly on October 4th, was called the Cerelia. It began with a fast [Day of Atonement?] among the common people who offered her a sow and the first cuttings of the harvest. There were processions in the fields with music and rustic sports and ceremonies ended with the inevitable feast of thanksgiving.' (Thanksgiving, Dodd-Mead, 1957. Pages 12-13).
"Why am I stressing this THREE-DAY FESTIVAL TO CERES in Rome and Athens? Because the Pilgrim Fathers OBSERVED A THREE-DAY THANKSGIVING during the fall in 1621!!"
"Diana Karter Appelbaum CLEARLY brings this out in Thanksgiving, An American Holiday, an American History:
'The first autumn, an ample harvest insured that the colony would have food for the winter months. Governor Bradford, with one eye on the divine Providence, proclaimed a day of thanksgiving to God, and with the other eye on the local political situation extended an invitation to neighboring Indians to share in the harvest feast in order to guarantee that the feast served to cement a peaceful relationship; the three-day long meal was punctuated by displays of the power of English muskets for the benefit of suitably impressed Indian guests.' (Pages 7-8).
"It is interesting to realize that Edward Winslow, an 'historian' among the Pilgrim Fathers, would have written about the religious services held in those fall days if it was a day of thanksgiving to God, but HE MENTIONED NO SUCH THING! Instead, Diana Appelbaum states that 'Oysters, clams and fish rounded out the abundant, but far from epicurean feast that the celebrators would have been more likely to call "harvest home" than a "thanksgiving" celebration.' "
'A day of Thanksgiving was not an idea unique to the early settlers in America. The Pilgrims were well acquainted while in England with annual Thanksgiving celebrations, which had been known throughout history as an ancient and universal custom.
'In fact, the first Thanksgiving was more like a harvest festival, with none of the accounts mentioning any giving of thanks in solemn, religious piety as it is usually imagined. In keeping with long-standing English custom, Thanksgiving was filled with "revelry, sports, and feasts." ' (Myth information Extraordinary Collection of 590 Popular Misconceptions, Fallacies and Misbeliefs. J. Allen Varasdi)"
Is the eating of pumpkin pie, turkey or other food items used as pagan symbols in Thanksgiving necessarily wrong? No , only if utilized as part of the holiday or associated with it. There is the distinct difference between eating these foods as ordinary ones and partaking of a pagan rite, even though in the guise of a godly holiday whether in its season or not.
http://qumran.com/Holiday_Files/thanksgiving_question.htm
It is just as God's word says. It is a blatant testimony to God's word.
Quote:
Rev 13
The whole world was astonished and followed the beast. 4Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast, and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who can make war against him?"
This beast is the devil working in the roman catholic church to deveive the hearts of all men (that is, the real church of the devil), with it's thinly veiled adoltery, and babylonian mystery religion of that great whore. The same religion that is really the root of all pagan religions. That in fact, the whole world worships the beast, and the great whore whether religious or not.
Quote:
Rev 18
24And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all that were slain upon the earth.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/17/07 03:38 PM)
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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You have NO idea what you are talking about, imo.

(This wine is such that its virtue radiateth through the cup, and I reel under the intoxication of it. And every thought is destroyed by it. It abideth alone, and its name is Compassion. I understand by "Compassion," the sacrament of suffering, partaken by the true worshippers of the Highest. And it is an ecstasy in which there is no trace of pain. Its passivity (=passion) is like the giving-up of the self to the beloved.) The voice continues: This is the Mystery of Babylon, the Mother of abominations, and this is the mystery of her adulteries, for she hath yielded up herself to everything that liveth, and hath become a partaker in its mystery. And because she hath made herself the servant of each, therefore is she become the mistress of all. Not as yet canst thou comprehend her glory. Beautiful art thou, O Babylon, and desirable, for thou hast given thyself to everything that liveth, and thy weakness hath subdued their strength. For in that union thou didst "understand." Therefore art thou called Understanding, O Babylon, Lady of the Night! This is that which is written, "O my God, in one last rapture let me attain to the union with the many." For she is {83} Love, and her love is one, and she hath divided the one love into infinite loves, and each love is one, and equal to The One, and therefore is she passed "from the assembly and the law and the enlightenment unto the anarchy of solitude and darkness. For ever thus must she veil the brilliance of Her Self." O Babylon, Babylon, thou mighty Mother, that ridest upon the crown?d beast, let me be drunken upon the wine of thy fornications; let thy kisses wanton me unto death, that even I, thy cup-bearer, may "understand." Now, through the ruddy glow of the cup, I may perceive far above, and infinitely great, the vision of Babylon. And the Beast whereon she rideth is the Lord of the City of the Pyramids, that I beheld in the fourteenth Aethyr. Now that is gone in the glow of the cup, and the Angel saith: Not as yet mayest thou understand the mystery of the Beast, for it pertaineth not unto the mystery of this Aire, and few that are new-born unto Understanding are capable thereof. The cup glows ever brighter and fierier. All my sense is unsteady, being smitten with ecstasy. And the Angel sayeth: Blessed are the saints, that their blood is mingled in the cup, and can never be separate any more. For Babylon the Beautiful, the Mother of abominations, hath sworn by her holy cteis, whereof every point is a pang, that she will not rest from her adulteries until the blood of everything that liveth is gathered therein, and the wine thereof laid up and matured and consecrated, and worthy to gladden the heart of my Father. For my Father is weary with the stress of eld, and cometh not to her bed. Yet shall {84} this perfect wine be the quintessence, and the elixir, and by the draught thereof shall he renew his youth; and so shall it be eternally, as age by age the worlds do dissolve and change, and the universe unfoldeth itself as a Rose, and shutteth itself up as the Cross that is bent into the cube. And this is the comedy of Pan, that is played at night in the thick forest. And this is the mystery of Dionysus Zagreus, that is celebrated upon the holy mountain of Kithairon. And this is the secret of the brothers of the Rosy Cross; and this is the heart of the ritual that is accomplished in the Vault of the Adepts that is hidden in the Mountain of the Caverns, even the Holy Mountain Abiegnus. And this is the meaning of the Supper of the Passover, the spilling of the blood of the Lamb being a ritual of the Dark Brothers, for they have sealed up the Pylon with blood, lest the Angel of Death should enter therein. Thus do they shut themselves off from the company of the saints. Thus do they keep themselves from compassion and from understanding. Accursed are they, for they shut up their blood in their heart. They keep themselves from the kisses of my Mother Babylon, and in their lonely fortresses they pray to the false moon. And they bind themselves together with an oath, and with a great curse. And of their malice they conspire together, and they have power, and mastery, and in their cauldrons do they brew the harsh wine of delusion, mingled with the poison of their selfishness. Thus they make war upon the Holy One, sending forth their delusion upon men, and upon everything that liveth. So that their false compassion is called compassion, and their {85} false understanding is called understanding, for this is their most potent spell. Yet of their own poison do they perish, and in their lonely fortresses shall they be eaten up by Time that hath cheated them to serve him, and by the mighty devil Choronzon, their master, whose name is the Second Death, for the blood that they have sprinkled on their Pylon, that is a bar against the Angel Death, is the key by which he entereth in.12 The Angel sayeth: And this is the word of double power in the voice of the Master, wherein the Five interpenetrateth the Six. This is its secret interpretation that may not be understood, save only of "them that understand." And for this is the Key of the Pylon of Power, because there is no power that may endure, save only the power that descendeth in this my chariot from Babylon, the city of the Fifty Gates, the Gate of the God On [HB:Nun-final HB:Ayin HB:Lamed HB:Aleph HB:Bet HB:Aleph HB:Bet ]. Moreover is On the Key of the Vault that is 120. So also do the Majesty and the Beauty derive from the Supernal Wisdom. But this is a mystery utterly beyond thine understanding. For Wisdom is the Man, and Understanding the Woman, and not until thou hast perfectly understood canst thou begin to be wise....
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Middleman]
#7648362 - 11/17/07 05:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
For Babylon the Beautiful, the Mother of abominations,
The beautiful mother of abominations?
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Babylon Is Fallen
chapter 18
1After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illumined with his glory.
2And he cried out with a mighty voice, saying, "Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great! She has become a dwelling place of demons and a prison of every unclean spirit, and a prison of every unclean and hateful bird.
3"For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the passion of her immorality, and the kings of the earth have committed acts of immorality with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich by the wealth of her sensuality."
4I heard another voice from heaven, saying, "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive of her plagues;
5for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities.
6"Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her.
7"To the degree that she glorified herself and lived sensuously, to the same degree give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, 'I SIT as A QUEEN AND I AM NOT A WIDOW, and will never see mourning.'
8"For this reason in one day her plagues will come, pestilence and mourning and famine, and she will be burned up with fire; for the Lord God who judges her is strong.
"Lament for Babylon"
9"And the kings of the earth, who committed acts of immorality and lived sensuously with her, will weep and lament over her when they see the smoke of her burning,
10standing at a distance because of the fear of her torment, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, Babylon, the strong city! For in one hour your judgment has come.'
11"And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--
12cargoes of gold and silver and precious stones and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet, and every kind of citron wood and every article of ivory and every article made from very costly wood and bronze and iron and marble,
13and cinnamon and spice and incense and perfume and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and cargoes of horses and chariots and slaves and human lives.
14"The fruit you long for has gone from you, and all things that were luxurious and splendid have passed away from you and men will no longer find them.
15"The merchants of these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of the fear of her torment, weeping and mourning,
16saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, she who was clothed in fine linen and purple and scarlet, and adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls;
17for in one hour such great wealth has been laid (waste!' And every shipmaster and every passenger and sailor, and as many as make their living by the sea, stood at a distance,
18and were crying out as they saw the smoke of her burning, saying, 'What city is like (the great city?'
19"And they threw dust on their heads and were crying out, weeping and mourning, saying, 'Woe, woe, the great city, in which all who had ships at sea became rich by her wealth, for in one hour she has been laid waste!'
20"Rejoice over her, O heaven, and you saints and apostles and prophets, because God has pronounced judgment for you against her."
21Then a strong angel took up a stone like a great millstone and threw it into the sea, saying, "So will Babylon, the great city, be thrown down with violence, and will not be found any longer.
22"And the sound of harpists and musicians and flute-players and trumpeters will not be heard in you any longer; and no craftsman of any craft will be found in you any longer; and the sound of a mill will not be heard in you any longer;
23and the light of a lamp will not shine in you any longer; and the voice of the bridegroom and bride will not be heard in you any longer; for your merchants were the great men of the earth, because all the nations were deceived by your sorcery.
24"And in her was found the blood of prophets and of saints and of all who have been slain on the earth."
Revelation 19
1After these things I heard something like a loud voice of a great multitude in heaven, saying, "Hallelujah! Salvation and glory and power belong to our God;
2BECAUSE HIS JUDGMENTS ARE TRUE AND RIGHTEOUS; for He has judged the great harlot who was corrupting the earth with her immorality, and HE HAS AVENGED THE BLOOD OF HIS BOND-SERVANTS ON HER."
3And a second time they said, "(Hallelujah! HER SMOKE RISES UP FOREVER AND EVER."
4And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne saying, "Amen Hallelujah!"
5And a voice came from the throne, saying, "Give praise to our God, all you His bond-servants, you who fear Him, the small and the great."
6Then I heard something like the voice of a great multitude and like the sound of many waters and like the (sound of mighty peals of thunder, saying, "Hallelujah! For the Lord our God, the Almighty, reigns.
"Marriage of the Lamb"
7"Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready."
8It was given to her to clothe herself in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteous acts of the saints.
9Then he said to me, "Write, 'Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb '" And he said to me, "These are true words of God."
10Then I fell at his feet to worship him But he said to me, "Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy."
"The Coming of Christ"
11And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sat on it is called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and wages war.
12His eyes are a flame of fire, and on His head are many diadems; and He has a name written on Him which no one knows except Himself.
13He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.
14And the armies which are in heaven, clothed in fine linen, white and clean, were following Him on white horses.
15 From His mouth comes a sharp sword, so that with it He may strike down the nations, and He will rule them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierce wrath of God, the Almighty.
16And on His robe and on His thigh He has a name written, "KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS."
17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out with a loud voice, saying to all the birds which fly in midheaven, "Come, assemble for the great supper of God,
18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and the flesh of commanders and the flesh of mighty men and the flesh of horses and of those who sit on them and the flesh of all men, both free men and slaves, and small and great."
19And I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies assembled to make war against Him who sat on the horse and against His army.
"Doom of the Beast and False Prophet"
20And the beast was seized, and with him the false prophet who performed the signs in his presence, by which he deceived those who had received the mark of the beast and those who worshiped his image; these two were thrown alive into the lake of fire which burns with brimstone.
21And the rest were killed with the sword which came from the mouth of Him who sat on the horse, and all the birds were filled with their flesh.
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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This is the Mysticism forum, not the Fundamentalism forum.
Please take your pet dogma elsewhere, thanks.
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Clean
the lense


Registered: 05/11/03
Posts: 2,374
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GIVE THANKS FOR ART - FUCK YOUR COLONIAL HOLYDAZE [Re: Middleman]
#7648852 - 11/17/07 08:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said:

that is fucking awesome...do you know the artist's name?
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
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Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Middleman]
#7648862 - 11/17/07 08:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Isn't it interesting how it's so difficult to keep the rules when those that persecute you make the rules?
I'm sorry you have a problem with me expressing my spiritual perceptions.
btw., babylonian mystery religion is mysticism. And depending on which definition you go with, there is mysticism in Christianity as well, although very different.
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leery11
I Tell You What!


Registered: 06/24/05
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Last seen: 8 years, 9 months
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there are too many fundamental differences everywhere
-------------------- I am the MacDaddy of Heimlich County, I play it Straight Up Yo! ....I embrace my desire to feel the rhythm, to feel connected enough to step aside and weep like a widow, to feel inspired, to fathom the power, to witness the beauty, to bathe in the fountain, to swing on the spiral of our divinity and still be a human...... Om Namah Shivaya, I tell you What!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Boy those uptight fundamentalist Puritans sure did love them some Babylonian pagan rituals, didn't they?
--------------------
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: Isn't it interesting how it's so difficult to keep the rules when those that persecute you make the rules?
I'm sorry you have a problem with me expressing my spiritual perceptions.
btw., babylonian mystery religion is mysticism. And depending on which definition you go with, there is mysticism in Christianity as well, although very different.
I don't make the rules, I just try to enforce them, which is why I stopped short of closing this thread.
I have no problem with you sharing your perspective Jonathan, please just don't go spamming "the word" in here, we have removed "Religion" from this forum's header.
I understand Mysticism as the theory and practice of symbolism.
Christian mystics interpret sacred texts and the life, sermons and parables of Jesus metaphorically...
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Middleman]
#7649944 - 11/18/07 02:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Christian mystics interpret sacred texts and the life, sermons and parables of Jesus metaphorically...
The way I see it Christianity in it's core is "mystical" (depends on which defenition you go with) I suppose because it ultimately depends upon intuition to establish faith and recognize God's nature (edit: not to mention in Christianity it is clearly explained that becoming a Christian is process where God chooses initiates, and only those who abide in the doctrine of Christ can truly understand all of scripture). Also there is so much that is symbolic/metaphorical in scripture including Jesus's teachings, although I wouldn't agree that Jesus' actual life was metaphorical. But there is symbolism in the old testament law that I believe was what Paul called a shadow of Good things to come in Christ. Also The bible tells us in Romans 1:20 that the whole universe was created to reflect his nature. One of the greatest most beautiful allegories can be found in the living allegory of a man and his wife, which is an allegory of God's relationship with his church.
The truth is that Paul says that
Quote:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
It pains me and baffles me to see how so many people could turn to another gospel, and not recognize and seek to understand such a great mystery that is found in the gospel of Christ.
silversoul:
Quote:
Boy those uptight fundamentalist Puritans sure did love them some Babylonian pagan rituals, didn't they?
You know how some people believe America is the most Christian nation in the history of the earth? Only it's really not? it's like that.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/18/07 03:17 AM)
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: GIVE THANKS FOR ART - FUCK YOUR COLONIAL HOLYDAZE [Re: Clean]
#7649995 - 11/18/07 03:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Clean said:
Quote:
Middleman said:

that is fucking awesome...do you know the artist's name?
Norbert Kox from http://www.gaiaguys.net/666.htm
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hummermania00
Strange Son of aBitch



Registered: 04/07/07
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Re: GIVE THANKS FOR ART - FUCK YOUR COLONIAL HOLYDAZE [Re: Middleman]
#7650202 - 11/18/07 07:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is also a book written by (i can't remember) about the Norsemen who travelled the shores of Newfoundland about 1000 ad; and described finding the sites of settlements. The author proposed evidence that these people had thanksgiving celebrations. Not entirely sure if the Norse got it from anyone else, but it would just seem to be an inherent concept that people give thanks to some god or other thing at different times of the year.
-------------------- You are a fortunate person indeed, if you can begin each day accepting the fact that during that day there will be ups and downs, good breaks and bad ones, disappointments, surprises, and unexpected turns of events. When you have solved all the mysteries of life you long for death, for it is but another mystery of life.
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
Posts: 44,175
Last seen: 3 months, 10 days
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Middleman]
#7650240 - 11/18/07 08:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: This is the Mysticism forum, not the Fundamentalism forum.
Please take your pet dogma elsewhere, thanks.
"discuss your personal beliefs on... religion"
"Share your views of the... god(s)"
"Attempting to disprove or discredit an idea will not be tolerated."
It sounds like you're the one breaking the rules.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
There is also a book written by (i can't remember) about the Norsemen who travelled the shores of Newfoundland about 1000 ad; and described finding the sites of settlements. The author proposed evidence that these people had thanksgiving celebrations. Not entirely sure if the Norse got it from anyone else, but it would just seem to be an inherent concept that people give thanks to some god or other thing at different times of the year.
It's not that they are simply thanksgiving celebrations. There is nothing wrong with giving thanks to God for the harvest. The Hebrews for instance had one. But here's really what it's all about: All pagan religion, modern and ancient is really rooted in babylonian mystery religion. Ancient Gods of Greece and Rome are merely psyuedonyms for semiramis the "queen of heaven" or ishtar (easter) etc and also Nimrod under different psyuedonoyms such as osirus and baal. The whole world worships her, including catholics, and false Chistians, atheists, even native americans. There is a system set up so that if you do not know the truth you will be deceived to take the mark and worship the image of the beast. This religion has spread everywhere. That is why wherever the catholic church goes, the natives merely assimilate the catholic religion into part of their own religious activities. Because it's really the same religion underneath.
There are a number of books you could check out on the subject. I have more materials, but here is the classical book on the subject. Through a means of morphing of names and and spread of symbolism and secret rituals, the mystery religion of nimrod and the whore has spread under the radar, so to speak.
http://www.exorthodoxforchrist.com/pdf_format.htm
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Veritas

Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
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How strange for there to be a common theme throughout all human cultures of gratitude for a bountiful harvest. It's almost as though our survival depended upon growing food! 
Happy Thanksgiving to all--whether you believe that your dinner comes to you through the grace of Jesus, Ceres, or your local supermarket!
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Veritas]
#7651141 - 11/18/07 01:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I get my dinner from neither.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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budmanman
OTD Masterbater



Registered: 02/07/07
Posts: 17,974
Loc: PNW
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Icelander]
#7653261 - 11/19/07 01:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Johnathan do you know what my image is.
-------------------- Everything I have ever said is total bogus bs I am full of crud therefore everything I say should never be taken literal. And I am mentally unstable.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: budmanman]
#7653358 - 11/19/07 01:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No.
edit: It looks like..young 3 stooges.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/19/07 10:23 AM)
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Shroomism
Space Travellin



Registered: 02/13/00
Posts: 66,015
Loc: 9th Dimension
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Let's not forget the true meaning of thanksgiving: The slaughter and genocide of the Native Americans.
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WordlessNature
kšatrīya



Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 412
Last seen: 2 years, 11 days
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Isn't it interesting how this works... So many hate-laden words of separation, yet not a single taste of peace. Middleman, I respect your posts greatly for the incredible wealth of information you continue to present here. Jonathan, I am also very appreciative of the information you put forward in support of your truth. My truth is neither of yours, nor will any amount of data provided ever change that. Yet I still find enrichment in the ideas you present, whether I personally deem them wise or spurious. The opportunity to analyze a dissenting opinion is a golden one that leads to greater wisdom. Do not become so verbally combative that you shit upon your own house of cards. To do so is certainly without merit... Personally, I believe that your views espouse separation, Jonathan; if you believe in God, I would expect your posts to foster understanding, compassion, and reconciliation. As it stands, they seem to breed dissent, chaos, and mindless bickering. What Christian purpose is there in bringing sinister tones to a simple, family-oriented and largely secular holiday? Think of your Mission before you speak, Christian. Otherwise your very presence shall further slander your religion.
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DieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Shroomism]
#7653799 - 11/19/07 08:06 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Let's not forget the true meaning of thanksgiving: The slaughter and genocide of the Native Americans.
Why is that the true meaning of thanksgiving? Of course that was the most unjust, evil and oppressive thing that this nation has ever done. But what does that have to do with thanksgiving? Is it because the pilgrims ate with natives that somehow the meaning of thanksgiving is genocide? I have to say, that doesnt make sense at all...
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Shroomism]
#7654052 - 11/19/07 09:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Shroomism said: Let's not forget the true meaning of thanksgiving: The slaughter and genocide of the Native Americans.
I tend to associate that more with Columbus Day.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
Isn't it interesting how this works... So many hate-laden words of separation, yet not a single taste of peace. Middleman, I respect your posts greatly for the incredible wealth of information you continue to present here. Jonathan, I am also very appreciative of the information you put forward in support of your truth. My truth is neither of yours, nor will any amount of data provided ever change that. Yet I still find enrichment in the ideas you present, whether I personally deem them wise or spurious. The opportunity to analyze a dissenting opinion is a golden one that leads to greater wisdom. Do not become so verbally combative that you lalala upon your own house of cards. To do so is certainly without merit... Personally, I believe that your views espouse separation, Jonathan; if you believe in God, I would expect your posts to foster understanding, compassion, and reconciliation. As it stands, they seem to breed dissent, chaos, and mindless bickering. What Christian purpose is there in bringing sinister tones to a simple, family-oriented and largely secular holiday? Think of your Mission before you speak, Christian. Otherwise your very presence shall further slander your religion.
You say "peace, peace", but there is no peace. I do support seperation, seperation from the filth of this world. I also work to encourage understanding,compassion, and reconciliation, all which can be found in Christ.
if it was a harmless holiday, then I might not be sharing this . Like I said, there's nothing wrong with giving thanks to God for the harvest, and the hebrews had such a celebration also.
It's about a system that is working to deceive you all. It's about an adoltarous church that is working to destroy you. This is not a joke. Please wake up.You don't walk into a battle saying "peace, peace you seperatists".
Do you hate war? This power is a greedy warmonger. Do you hate corruption? This is the power that corrupts the whole earth. Do you despise the policies of bush? This is the power behind bush, the nwo, and in fact is the real power that formed the american government. Do you hate oppression? This power crushes the earth and all it's living things.
This is serious, and this is real, this is evident for anyone to see.
Learn symbolism and you will see it everywhere.
Learn history, the history they don't want you to know.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/19/07 11:30 AM)
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WordlessNature
kšatrīya



Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 412
Last seen: 2 years, 11 days
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History? You clearly were not there when the Three Islands fell. I'm guessing you think that what you call the Tower of Babel wasn't a good thing? And I suppose that you still blame long dead leaders, some turned into gods by time, for what is happening today? In doing so you pick on dead men, some of them corrupt, some friends. The trident was not perfect, but we are not responsible for any world dominating master plan... As above, so below...
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: I do support seperation, seperation from the filth of this world.
Spoken like a true Xtian.
Quote:
This is not a joke.
Yes, it is.
Quote:
Please wake up.
Ok, I will.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Quote:
History? You clearly were not there when the Three Islands fell. I'm guessing you think that what you call the Tower of Babel wasn't a good thing? And I suppose that you still blame long dead leaders, some turned into gods by time, for what is happening today? In doing so you pick on dead men, some of them corrupt, some friends. The trident was not perfect, but we are not responsible for any world dominating master plan... As above, so below...
You're referring to Atlantis right? Atlantis as it's depicted in mythology is a total myth..but first let me state I do not see how it is relevent to what I was talking about at all. But you mentioned it so I think I'll go over it.
Quote:
It is remarkable that there is a syllable with the consonant value "M*R" which is found everywhere in connection with the planet Mars, the god of Mars, and its associated emblem, the dragon. The source of all these words is to be found in the Semitic roof "marah" (M*R) which in Hebrew means bitterness as well as disobedience. From this roof is derived "marad" (M*R*D), or rebellion, which is the original both of Nimrod (the Babylonian Nin-Mir-Rud), or (N*M*R*D), as well as Marduk/Merodach (M*R*D*K). The Bible tells us that Nimrod was the founder of Ninevah, and Nineveh's own half-legendary history ascribes that honor to one Ninur or Nimur (N*M*R).
Marduk was the original in both name and character of the gods Mercury (M*R*K*R) and Mars (M*R*TS) from which of course we derive the current names of these planets. It is notable that Mercury, like Mars, is also "battle-scarred".
Under the name Apsu (P*S), Marduk became Poseidon (P*S*D*N) who founded Atlantis which was named after his son Atlas (T*L*S), the Babylonian Astalluhi (S*T*L*). Atlantis was overthrown in the throes of a great war bringing destruction and dissolution upon the land. The only remnant of Atlantis was the island Hesperus (S*P*R) upon which lived a dragon in possession of the fruit of the tree of life (immortality). This fruit was stolen by the god Hercules/Melkarth (M*L*K*R*T), a pseudonym of Marduk (M*R*D*K). The people of Atlantis, called Merodes (M*R*D) were descendants of Merou (M*R) or Merod (M*R*D).
This account of Atlantis is just mythology, it's very likely based partially upon history with mythology intertwined.
No the tower of babel, or the ziggurat there was not a good thing, I don't know what you make of it.
But I really want to address this statement:
Quote:
And I suppose that you still blame long dead leaders, some turned into gods by time, for what is happening today?
Nimrod and semiramis were not turned into gods over time, that is deified long over time.. Nimrod and Semiramis deified themselves while they were still alive.
Quote:
After establishing his kingdom in the Tigris/Euphrates region Nimrod consolidated his power by establishing a state religion. He constructed a religion that included deification and worship of the emperor (himself), worship of Satan and his demons, and star-worship (corrupted from a pure antediluvian astronomy). A key unifying factor in his religion was to be an astronomical/astrological observatory built upon the pinnacle of a pyramid, or tower, at Babel. It has been suggested that Nimrod spent some time in Egypt before moving up to Mesopotamia and that while in Egypt he studied the Egyptian mystery religion perpetuated there from before the flood by the wife of Ham, whom tradition takes to be a descendant of Cain.
The building of this pyramid (or ziggurat) was interrupted by God himself in order to prevent Nimrod from extending his sway over all of the inhabited earth, according to Genesis. God halted the work by confusing their language so they could no longer cooperate easily with one another, nor indeed easily inhabit the same region together. As a consequence the human race was dispersed, and as men scattered they carried with them remnants of primeval revelation from God, and Satan/hero worship which Nimrod had invented as well. This system of muddled half-truths is known today to Bible scholars as the "Babylonian Mystery Religion." From a biblical point of view this religious system is described as the well-spring for all subsequent false religion and endless mythological systems, (For example see Isaiah 47 and revelation Chapters 17 and 18).
After their deaths, Nimrod and his wife Semiramis (the ancient "queen of heaven") were confirmed by their priests as gods and given homage as Marduk and Astarte. The name Marduk was not revealed to the masses but his attributes were set forth under pseudonyms of various gods constructed for the public interest.
I don't honestly know what you're talking about "the trident", but as to your statement of not being responsible, we are all responsible for our actions. We are responsible if we support an evil system. We are responsible if we give allegiance to that evil system. We are also responsible for ourselves to not be decieved. That is yours and mine responsibilities.
It's not that there is some oppresive system out there that you can just live your daily lives in ignorance of it's workings and whereabouts and still be fine. This system could not hold so much power except it were given power and support by the common people. If you recognized this power, you would hate it (probably) but yet the whole world supports this power.
The jesuits established their power in Europe, and when they were finally exposed (willingly, but that's another story) and put out of (open) practice in Europe, a lawyer that had inspected constitutions, the jesuit manual, he said that was a handbook of "every known form of heresy,idolatry,and superstition [which] provides tutelage in suicide, legicide, blasphemy, and every kind of impurity, usury,sorcery, murder, cruelty, hatred, vendetta, insurrection, and treason"
And yet they had had total control of Europe for many many years. And they couldn't had flourished so greatly had not the general populace supported them.
But now they are back and thriving in Europe, and especially so in America. Consider then your responsibility concerning these deceivers, and remember that ignorance is no excuse.
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WordlessNature
kšatrīya



Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 412
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I think your post reveals exactly what it was expected to.
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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which is?
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MarkostheGnostic
Elder


Registered: 12/09/99
Posts: 14,279
Loc: South Florida
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Re: happy thanksgiving? [Re: Veritas]
#7666717 - 11/22/07 11:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Happy Thanksgiving Veritas to you, Ice and the family!
And a Grateful Thanksgiving to all in the Name of the Great Spirit no matter what Names you use. God is ONE.
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zendragon
Dark SporesMycology



Registered: 09/30/07
Posts: 40
Loc: Texas
Last seen: 15 years, 4 months
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Because my family is made up of so many different beliefs...from Christian's to Buddhists, we decided to make Thanksgiving a day that we all get together and eat.Period. Before dinner we bow our heads in silence and say our prayers in silence. During dinner we take turns talking about all of the things we are Thankful for. No more religious or political arguments to ruin the day.
PEACE, Zendragon
-------------------- Dark Spores Mycology Magic Mushroom spores and more.
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