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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
#7649169 - 11/17/07 09:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
but I'd remove all morality-based laws and strengthen laws against violence, and I'd redistribute wealth and power
To redistribute wealth would require force, aka: violence.
Edited by Diploid (11/17/07 09:42 PM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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To redistribute wealth would require force, aka: violence.
The king is allowed to enforce laws with force for the common good. Stick 'em up! 
Note: hit the wrong button and edited your post accidentally. Damned weed.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
#7649195 - 11/17/07 09:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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BTW, when I say redistribute wealth and power, I'm referring to oversized, disproportionately influential, and irresponsible corporations and politicians. I'd leave people alone, for the most part.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
#7649217 - 11/17/07 09:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No matter how much you dance around, you can't be against violence and for violent enforcement of some ideal.
As I am sure you know Cuban history way better than I, but I believe that Castro was a freedom fighter for the common people and look what happened: He became the type of man he fought against. This is often how these things work out.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I'm not against all violence. I don't know of any way to enforce laws other than through violence. Even self defence is violent.
The question for me turns on whether or not the greater good is served by that violence. Yeah, it's a tightrope calling those judgments, that's the hypothetical job Ice created with this thread.
I'm also against morality laws, but at the bottom of it all, those are the only kind. I guess it's a matter of degree.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 8 months
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
#7649863 - 11/18/07 01:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Having a legal system at all requires having an extensive repressive aparatus, and the 'greater good' is always the justification for the most horrific of oppressions.
Also, all laws are morality based. There are plenty of historical and even relatively contemporary examples of cultures that value all kinds of things we find utterly unthinkable.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Question [Re: Diploid]
#7650227 - 11/18/07 08:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: First using logic and evidence.
Logic and evidence points to a nihilistic universe. At the moment, I lean in that direction pending some surprise. But, lemme tell ya something of how I've arrived here.
I've been an alter boy in Catholic church (no, they didn't touch my pee pee), and I've been to psychics, santeros, and assorted healers looking for something more. I've drawn pentagrams on the floor, studied astrology and palmistry, meditated with a guru, and prayed fervently and humbly looking for something more. I've begged the Creator to show me something or open my eyes if I'm doing it wrong. I've cried over what from all evidence is a hopeless existentially lonely existence that will suddenly end one day.
I've read the Gita, Koran, Dead Sea Scrolls, Torah, Old Testament, New Testament (in English and Spanish for viewpoints of language), the Vampire Bible, the Satanic Bible, assorted Masonic books, many more I can't remember now. Hell, I've even read Dianetics and done an 'audit'.
I've searched for something more while sober for 30 years, then I tried pot for the first time in my 30s looking for something more. I've meditated alone swimming 400 feet underwater as far from humans as I could get, and I've meditated at concerts surrounded by 50,000 people, looking for something more. I've followed the advice of hundreds of believers. I've gone on pilgrimages and retreats. I've indulged in an alphabet soup of drug use, looking for something more.
I haven't found anything so far, and I'm out of ideas.
Using intuition and feeling.
Because I'm an almost-neurotic optimist, and because of some strange things in cutting-edge physics that seem to be real and a part of nature but that are entirely beyond any kind of intuitive understanding, I hold out the tiniest sliver of hope that there may be something more out there.
I'm a scientist. My nature is to abhor certainty that there ISN'T anything more, even though a lifetime of searching without a shred of anything to hold onto seems to support that conclusion. Still, every day that passes I'm more convinced that this is all there is.
How you would prefer life to be if you were in charge.
Peaceful, slower.
We live in a rat race. We're driven to productivity by those in power just like a horse is driven by a whip. And most people don't seem to notice.
The only reason we ever started caring about addiction is because it negatively effects industrial productivity by re-centering people in aesthetic perception instead of utilitarian perception.
I'd rather life be less productive but happy than driven forward and making progress with a large fraction of the population taking anti-depressants. We're like those chickens you see in PITA videos where they're stacked several high in tiny cages and their entire existence is to produce eggs as quickly as possible for another creature until they die.
Unfortunately, humans are a product of evolution, and that means aggression and competition. We would not have survived as a species without these traits. And it seems most of us are too stupid or focused on figuring out how to buy that new car to realize that we're monkeys jumping around, beating our chest, and pissing on our territory just like our evolutionary chains demand. You have to see the parallels between us and wild chimps before you can step back, break those chains, and see the big picture. Few seem capable of doing this and so humanity marches forward and nothing much ever seems to change.
If I were in totalitarian charge of the world: well, the things I'd change would take me a year to write down, but I'd remove all morality-based laws and strengthen laws against violence, and I'd redistribute wealth and power to counteract the evolutionarily driven inclination to put some people on top and others on the bottom. Then I'd see to stopping the misery rampant population growth in starving parts of the world is causing.
These things as first steps.
Thank you for making this post Diploid. I have always respected your ideas but never felt I had most of the story. I have to confess that I really made this thread with you in mind, hoping to draw you out. A position after my own heart and much like my story also althought I only got about 20 feet down while snorkeling off the coast of Fiji. 
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Ego Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea



Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
Loc: The War Machine
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1. The point of life is to survive and grow at all cost. Humans can consider themselves no more expendable than bacteria.
2. To have lots of sex
3. Utopian
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