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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7646150 - 11/16/07 10:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Actually, if you look around at updated data, the ocean is actually reaching its saturation point of CO2
Exactly. You make my point for me.
The oceans are reaching saturation, meaning they may be at the top of the CO2 sinking curve and are now becoming a CO2 SOURCE instead of a sink. The point is, we're still not sure. The sample size is too small to be meaningful.
The oceans are saturated because of CO2 caused by US. The oceans were doing just fine on their own until CO2 spiked starting in the industrial age. Oceans are NOT the source of upped CO2 in the atmosphere. That's just crazytalk.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Kamin



Registered: 02/04/07
Posts: 449
Last seen: 12 years, 3 months
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7646163 - 11/16/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Then tell the UN ambassadors to ride to the UN on bicycles.
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California
A E S T H E T I C S A T A N


Registered: 12/27/04
Posts: 72,118
Loc: H A U N T E D H O U S E
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7646240 - 11/16/07 11:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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groundbreaking(not), the Sun is getting bigger. so no, it's not up to the politicians, unless they are approving a Sun shield or Sun shrinking device.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7646393 - 11/17/07 12:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The oceans contain 1,400 times our yearly CO2 output. We couldn't be the cause of them saturating if we tried.
The capacity of the ocean to hold CO2 is a function of temperature. When the ocean warms, it releases CO2. If this upward jog in temperature is a normal variation of our climate, then it would trigger a massive release of CO2 from the oceans with or without us.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7646834 - 11/17/07 06:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: The oceans contain 1,400 times our yearly CO2 output. We couldn't be the cause of them saturating if we tried.
The capacity of the ocean to hold CO2 is a function of temperature. When the ocean warms, it releases CO2. If this upward jog in temperature is a normal variation of our climate, then it would trigger a massive release of CO2 from the oceans with or without us.
It would take massive temp increases for your hypothesis to be true, and we are not experiencing massive temp increases relative to CO2/ocean absorption. But we are experiencing massive temp increases relative to our global climate, which is a problem.
Temperature is not what is causing less CO2 absorption, and this has been concluded by the majority of the world's scientists. The reason why oceans are saturated is because we are adding too much CO2 for them to handle.
http://abc.net.au/news/stories/2007/10/20/2065101.htm?section=world http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-10/21/content_6915657.htm http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/10/22/carbon_sinks_full/ http://www.allheadlinenews.com/articles/7008907686 (just some examples)
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Rustifer
prestige worldwide



Registered: 04/10/05
Posts: 7,071
Loc: Central Texas
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7646930 - 11/17/07 07:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Go plant a fucking tree.
While I buy a 12 cylinder German luxury automobile.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Rustifer]
#7646968 - 11/17/07 08:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oooo ya don't say, a 12 cyl? Dude, you're so special. Enjoy working on the weekends! <ignore>
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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AJ4U
Cloud N9ne



Registered: 09/06/06
Posts: 5,609
Loc: Dirty Jersey
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7646972 - 11/17/07 08:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Rust's is right theres nothing we can do this is just earths natural cycle, global warming has been going on forever and we'll either adapt or we wont. Simple enough
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: AJ4U]
#7647004 - 11/17/07 08:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Thankfully, it is not that simple, and we have the power to reverse the cycle.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7647070 - 11/17/07 09:30 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: their is NO PROOF of global warming
There IS proof of global warming. I don't know any climate scientist who disputes this.
What is in dispute is the cause. This is why:
1. The Earth has been much warmer than it is now many times in the past.
2. The Earth's atmosphere has contained much higher concentrations of CO2 many times in the past.
So, while there's little doubt that the Earth is warming, there is a lot of doubt about the cause. It may well be that the Earth does this all by itself from time to time and we're just along for the ride, or minimally contributing.
Be critical of the media. They make money by riling people up, and this global warming hysteria is selling a lot of newspapers.
I am critical of the mainstream media. But what I find interesting is that in a 2004 study of scientific literature on climate change, out of 928 articles from peer-reviewed scientific journals between 1993 and 2003, 75% supported the anthropogenic hypothesis, 25% dealt with paleoclimate and took no position on the current trend, and NONE disagreed with it.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7647074 - 11/17/07 09:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: And the ocean contains 35,000 gigatons of CO2, which it cycles out to the atmosphere on a regular schedule. By comparison, humans produce only 25 gigatons per year. Humans would have to produce CO2 at the current rate for 1,440 years to match what is ALREADY in the ocean.
Even at our worst, we're dwarfed by the ocean's ability to sink and dump CO2. What's ridiculous is to be convinced our tiny contribution is causing the majority of the CO2 concentration change based on the currently-incomplete picture.
It seems to me that the ocean's CO2 just magnifies the problem, making the climate all the more volatile. As we release large amounts of CO2 into the atmosphere, it heats up the ocean, causing more CO2 to be released into the atmosphere. It's called the runaway greenhouse effect.
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MOTH
Wild Woman


Registered: 06/06/03
Posts: 23,431
Loc: In the jungle
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7647136 - 11/17/07 10:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I personally feel it's a natural cause. Humans are natural. No big deal. We're part of nature and nature is changing. It doesn't really matter "who done it," because we're all here, part of and contributing to a changing planet. Nothing to get upset over. It's evidently part of the process. It's pretty exciting.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Silversoul]
#7647716 - 11/17/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's called the runaway greenhouse effect.
Yes, this is yet another reason for the uncertainty about the cause of global warming. A smallish natural elevation of temperature might have occured in the near past for some as-yet unknown reason. That could have made the oceans start spilling CO2. That new CO2 caused another slight rise in temperature, which made the oceans spill yet more CO2.
Over and over the cycle feeds on itself and you get another in a regular cycle of warming and cooling that the Earth experiences on geologic time scales.
Of course, the same reasoning applies to human dumping of CO2. We just don't have enough information yet to point at any cause, natural or artificial, with certainty.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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trendal
J♠



Registered: 04/17/01
Posts: 20,815
Loc: Ontario, Canada
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7647746 - 11/17/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This graph doesn't make any sense if you are arguing from a stance of "CO2 causes warming". It's not that hard to see...just look at when the CO2 goes up with respect to temperature.
The CO2 is actually lagging the temperature changes by a few hundred to few thousand years. If the CO2 goes up following the temperature, it can't very well be causing the rise in temperature, can it?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/6/63/Co2-temperature-plot.svg/800px-Co2-temperature-plot.svg.png
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Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free. But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7649509 - 11/17/07 11:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It's called the runaway greenhouse effect.
Yes, this is yet another reason for the uncertainty about the cause of global warming. A smallish natural elevation of temperature might have occured in the near past for some as-yet unknown reason. That could have made the oceans start spilling CO2. That new CO2 caused another slight rise in temperature, which made the oceans spill yet more CO2.
Over and over the cycle feeds on itself and you get another in a regular cycle of warming and cooling that the Earth experiences on geologic time scales.
Of course, the same reasoning applies to human dumping of CO2. We just don't have enough information yet to point at any cause, natural or artificial, with certainty.
If anything, I think it demonstrates just how delicate the climate is, and that even if the human contribution isn't that significant right now(I believe it is), we'd better watch our emissions from now on.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7652153 - 11/18/07 07:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Watch The Great Global Warming Swindle with an open mind. If you have a short attention span, zip to about the 13 minute mark for the beef:
http://en.sevenload.com/videos/ha4PoKY/The-Great-Global-Warming-Swindle
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7652178 - 11/18/07 07:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That movie was debunked as it was a propogandic film supported by oil interests. Look it up.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: VisionsToReality]
#7652220 - 11/18/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's based on sound science. It's too bad when hysteria trumps legitimate science because the data is unpopular.
On March 17, 2007, The Daily Telegraph published a response by Durkin "The global-warmers were bound to attack, but why are they so feeble?"[48]. In it, he rejects any criticism of the close correlation between solar variation and temperature change, saying that Friis-Christensen stands by his work, and that "No one any longer seriously disputes the link between solar activity and temperature in earth's climate history." He accepts that the time axis of one graph was incorrectly labelled when the programme was first transmitted, but says that this does not change his conclusions. Regarding the Carl Wunsch controversy (see above) he repeats that Wunsch was not duped into taking part in the programme.
Durkin goes on to reject his opponents' position that the cooling period observed post Second World War was caused by sulphate aerosol cooling: "Thanks to China and the rest, SO2 levels are far, far higher now than they were back then. Why isn't it perishing cold?"
wikipedia.org
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7652337 - 11/18/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Regarding the Carl Wunsch controversy (see above) he repeats that Wunsch was not duped into taking part in the programme.
Regardless of whether he was "duped" into taking part in it, he certainly seems to feel they misrepresented his views. I tend to think he knows more about his own views than the film-makers.
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VisionsToReality
RIBBONS


Registered: 09/22/07
Posts: 1,083
Last seen: 16 years, 1 month
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Re: UN declares global warming unequivocal, saying abrupt warming & irreversible changes loom [Re: Diploid]
#7652401 - 11/18/07 07:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It's based on sound science. It's too bad when hysteria trumps legitimate science because the data is unpopular.
On March 17, 2007, The Daily Telegraph published a response by Durkin "The global-warmers were bound to attack, but why are they so feeble?"[48]. In it, he rejects any criticism of the close correlation between solar variation and temperature change, saying that Friis-Christensen stands by his work, and that "No one any longer seriously disputes the link between solar activity and temperature in earth's climate history." He accepts that the time axis of one graph was incorrectly labelled when the programme was first transmitted, but says that this does not change his conclusions. Regarding the Carl Wunsch controversy (see above) he repeats that Wunsch was not duped into taking part in the programme.
Durkin goes on to reject his opponents' position that the cooling period observed post Second World War was caused by sulphate aerosol cooling: "Thanks to China and the rest, SO2 levels are far, far higher now than they were back then. Why isn't it perishing cold?"
wikipedia.org
You may go put on your tinfoil hat now.
-------------------- Life is one big road with lots of signs, So when you're ridin' through the ruts, Don't you complicate your mind. Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy Don't bury your thoughts, Put your vision to reality, yeah!
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