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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Army desertion rates up 80%
#7645042 - 11/16/07 05:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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WASHINGTON (AP) — Soldiers strained by six years at war are deserting their posts at the highest rate since 1980, with the number of Army deserters this year showing an 80% increase since the United States invaded Iraq in 2003.
While the totals are still far lower than they were during the Vietnam war, when the draft was in effect, they show a steady increase over the past four years and a 42% jump since last year.
According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier. Overall, 4,698 soldiers deserted this year, compared to 3,301 last year.
The increase comes as the Army continues to bear the brunt of the war demands with many soldiers serving repeated, lengthy tours in Iraq and Afghanistan. Military leaders — including Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey — have acknowledged that the Army has been stretched nearly to the breaking point by the combat. And efforts are underway to increase the size of the Army and Marine Corps to lessen the burden and give troops more time off between deployments.
Despite the continued increase in desertions, however, an Associated Press examination of Pentagon figures earlier this year showed that the military does little to find those who bolt, and rarely prosecutes the ones they get. Some are allowed to simply return to their units, while most are given less-than-honorable discharges.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071116/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/military_deserters_7;_ylt=AgKo0KXajDGW0A7Ih0nWTVIE1vAI
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
Loc: South Texas
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7645084 - 11/16/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Army desertion rates up 80%!
"According to the Army, about nine in every 1,000 soldiers deserted in fiscal year 2007, which ended Sept. 30, compared to nearly seven per 1,000 a year earlier."
WOW! 
The MSM is really digging for bad news lately.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: lonestar2004]
#7645128 - 11/16/07 05:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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While the actual numbers are low, the increase does provide some indication of where the morale of our troops in headed. Which is into the toilet.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7645134 - 11/16/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, for less than 1% of them it is.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7645154 - 11/16/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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They should start flying some Playboy bunnies in there on choppers or something to build that morale back up. 
Just like in 'Apocalypse Now'.

-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
Edited by zorbman (11/16/07 05:55 PM)
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gettinjiggywithit
jiggy


Registered: 07/20/04
Posts: 7,469
Loc: Heart of Laughter
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7645357 - 11/16/07 07:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is pretty unsettling as well. U.S. War Veterans are committing suicide at a rate of 120 a week now, according to this report.:(
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,22762457-5005961,00.html
-------------------- Ahuwale ka nane huna.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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They are also supporting the two most vocal anti-war candidates:
http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-09-13-military-donors_N.htm
Business interests who are thriving on the war bubble will continue to push hard for the Clinton/Giuliani *eventuality* but perhaps an interested public can overcome it by showing up at the polls.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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JonnyOnTheSpot
Sober Surfer


Registered: 01/27/02
Posts: 11,527
Loc: North Carolina
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7658303 - 11/20/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i know a guy in the army who's going to desert if they don't let him out for pts. he's done a couple tours and says he's never going back again. i support his decision. support the troops!
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The_Red_Crayon
Exposer of Truth


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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7658732 - 11/20/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Cpt. Willard-- Charlie didn't get much U.S.O. He was dug in too deep, or moving too fast. His idea of great R&R was cold rice and a little rat meat.
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Charlie don't surf !
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zorbman]
#7659014 - 11/20/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said: Charlie don't surf !
But we think he should!
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nobhdy
ETNAV



Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1,401
Loc: CT
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zappaisgod]
#7673063 - 11/24/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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this is horrible.
i think we need to give our troops more of the things they need, like money and time off...
as my instructor in boot camp told us, we are training to releive the guys that are out there now. not enough people are enlisting and the ones who care enough to serve are paying for it.
its sad really. my dad has been over there twice already and i can see the toll it takes on him
go enlist or something.
-------------------- [quote]Gumby said: And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader. READ DAMNIT! [/quote]
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: nobhdy]
#7673536 - 11/24/07 05:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nobhdy said: as my instructor in boot camp told us, we are training to releive the guys that are out there now. not enough people are enlisting and the ones who care enough to serve are paying for it.
go enlist or something.
I don't understand. What does "care enough to serve" mean? Care about the war, care about relieving troops, care about serving just for the sake of it?
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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nobhdy
ETNAV



Registered: 05/12/06
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: kotik]
#7673556 - 11/24/07 05:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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yeah, volunteering to defend the rights and freedoms of americans.
and if you hadnt noticed, ALOT of people care about war. it is perhaps the ugliest thing humanity can muster, and yet alot of people will sit by and let the war be fought by only a few. Go relieve the guy. give him a break from war.
-------------------- [quote]Gumby said: And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader. READ DAMNIT! [/quote]
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zappaisgod]
#7673629 - 11/24/07 06:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said:
Quote:
zorbman said: Charlie don't surf !
But we think he should!
and u know that it ain't no good
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: BrAiN]
#7673638 - 11/24/07 06:29 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm going to get flamed for saying this.. but if you want to join the army and really don't want to go into combat... WTF?
Join the god damned CHAIR FOR.. er AIR FORCE. They pay just as well... have the same benefits for slackers that barely could graduate high school and could find no other work than the military.. and instead of getting sent to the front lines you'll probably just be assigned to mop a floor somewhere in Germany. Odds are the closest you'll get to having your life threatened is being stuck doing some paperwork in Kuwait or you'll get stuck as a crewmember on a plane.
No offense to anyone in the air force. I have close friends and family members in the airforce ranging everywhere from privaste to cap'n. But I think anyone here who served or know someone who served/serves in the airforce will agree with me.
I actually seriously considered applying to be an officer in the AF a few years ago... but got deterred by the fact that I'd have to do a lie detector test.
Anyone who joined the army after 9/11 and DIDN'T think they'd eventually be stuck out in the middle east for a year or two at a time was kidding themselves.
Edited by BrAiN (11/24/07 06:37 AM)
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: BrAiN]
#7673661 - 11/24/07 06:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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This is sort of off topic..
I was showing my in laws around DC this past week when they came to visit me here. I took em around the Vietnam memorial. I just thought I'd post a pic of it here for those of you who've never had the opportunity to see it.

It's pretty astounding and gives you some real perspective. Every name on that wall is someone who died in combat. This wall goes on for about 100 yards (granted the size of the wall gets smaller on each side).
My dad's brother's name is up on there. He was an unarmed medic who got drafted. He was supposed to be my dad's best man but was forced to ship out the day of my parents' wedding. He showed up before the wedding, handed my dad an envelope and left. That was the last they saw of him. He was a medic with no gun and a big ol' red cross on his helmet. He was taken down by a sniper. I remember when we visited when I was a little kid, my dad put up some paper to it and embossed his name on it with a pencil.
I'm not sure if this wall even covers names of MIA's.
I have lots of family members who served or are serving in wars. My grandfather served in WWI, Korea, and Vietnam and lived through all of em. I just wish I had wisened up and learned to appreciate my grandparents' war stories before they all passed away.
My point? I dunno... I guess I just wanted to say that there have been about 2/3 of a million Americans who have died in combat the past 70 years or so. Some in wars that were neccessary.. some in controversial wars.
I think anyone that joins the army should be forced to take a walk around downtown DC and see the sights like this to get a better perspective on what they're getting into.... Make them talk to veterans who have been there... in WWI, Nam, Korea, anywhere we've lost people.
Make them do this BEFORE they sign the paper. Maybe then we'll have less of a desertion rate.
Edited by BrAiN (11/24/07 06:53 AM)
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FecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.


Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 9,645
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory.
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: BrAiN]
#7673693 - 11/24/07 06:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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How long would a wall need to be in order to list the names of the one million Vietnamese that were killed in that war?
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kotik
fuckingsuperhero


Registered: 06/29/04
Posts: 3,531
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: nobhdy]
#7673717 - 11/24/07 07:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
nobhdy said: yeah, volunteering to defend the rights and freedoms of americans.
and if you hadnt noticed, ALOT of people care about war. it is perhaps the ugliest thing humanity can muster, and yet alot of people will sit by and let the war be fought by only a few. Go relieve the guy. give him a break from war.
what a joke. while I'm at it, why don't I go find people working double shifts in my local town and relieve them? How about I switch homes with families in high crime neighborhoods to relieve them?
This type of mentality displayed in the quote above is the type of trivial support that goes nowhere, and why we are in such a bad state now. If you are for the "war on terror" and everything else going on right now with our country, then by all means - join! Get paid to work side by side with contractors that make 4x as much as you, and have more freedoms... sounds like a great deal!
-------------------- No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: FecalDildo]
#7673722 - 11/24/07 07:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FecalDildo said: How long would a wall need to be in order to list the names of the one million Vietnamese that were killed in that war?
Good question. I wonder if Vietnam has some sort of war memorial.
I'm sure the photos of the last few people getting on that U.S. Helicopter in '75 is probably good enough for a lot of Vietnamese survivors.
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kidaihuan
First Growery Ban



Registered: 07/25/07
Posts: 3,173
Loc: Shanghai, China
Last seen: 13 years, 3 months
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: FecalDildo]
#7673725 - 11/24/07 07:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FecalDildo said: How long would a wall need to be in order to list the names of the one million Vietnamese that were killed in that war?
Hell yeah!
Also, the mentioning about the don't join if they aren't up for combat. That's EXACTLY what I've been telling everyone.
These guys think they should be able to use the defence that they never thought they'd have to go to war?! These guys signed up for the cash and didn't think they'd have to do anything for it. If they actually signed up to defend their country, they would expect to go to war.
And as for the allegation that people should sign up to defend American freedoms. Come on. COME ON. You've fallen face first into propaganda.
This war has NOTHING to do with American freedoms and nothing good, freedom wise, has come from it in regards to Americans. Ever heard of the Patriot Act?
Ehhh!
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
Loc: Fractallife's gym
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: kidaihuan]
#7673812 - 11/24/07 08:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm tired of the cries of "PROPOGANDA". It is stupid and, seemingly, the first resort of the intellectually weak. Along with "BRAIN WASHED", it is typically spouted by the disaffected mass of conformist, intellectually incestuous faux hipster so prevalant among the oh-so-smart young who have never actually done anything in their lives except pass tests and blow professors. Lose it, it has zero weight. Like "SHEEPLE", it exposes you as a follower, not a leader.
American freedoms? What happened to that famous leftard dictum in re: "when anyone is not free no one is". At any rate, that is not a trap I have fallen into regarding this war. Saddam's crimes, failures to adhere to his parole restrictions and expected recidivism were quite enough for me. Another benefit would have been that other lunatics would have been deterred from fucking with us, and other nations from helping them, if they perceived that we had shed our irresoluteness, but the perfidy of the press and the perceived notions of electoral expediency in the Democrat party have pretty much wiped away any chance of that happening. Too bad, the fifth column has succeeded in fucking that pooch.
If you could, please explain how the Patriot Act has effected your life in any way whatsoever, other than increased apoplexy and heightened sense of outrage.
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nobhdy
ETNAV



Registered: 05/12/06
Posts: 1,401
Loc: CT
Last seen: 9 years, 6 months
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zappaisgod]
#7673862 - 11/24/07 08:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zappaisgod said: I'm tired of the cries of "PROPOGANDA". It is stupid and, seemingly, the first resort of the intellectually weak. Along with "BRAIN WASHED", it is typically spouted by the disaffected mass of conformist, intellectually incestuous faux hipster so prevalant among the oh-so-smart young who have never actually done anything in their lives except pass tests and blow professors. Lose it, it has zero weight. Like "SHEEPLE", it exposes you as a follower, not a leader.
American freedoms? What happened to that famous leftard dictum in re: "when anyone is not free no one is". At any rate, that is not a trap I have fallen into regarding this war. Saddam's crimes, failures to adhere to his parole restrictions and expected recidivism were quite enough for me. Another benefit would have been that other lunatics would have been deterred from fucking with us, and other nations from helping them, if they perceived that we had shed our irresoluteness, but the perfidy of the press and the perceived notions of electoral expediency in the Democrat party have pretty much wiped away any chance of that happening. Too bad, the fifth column has succeeded in fucking that pooch.
If you could, please explain how the Patriot Act has effected your life in any way whatsoever, other than increased apoplexy and heightened sense of outrage.

you rock, dude.
and about the war not being about american freedoms...well, go fuck yourself. if we arent over there right now fighting the fight, where do you think the line will be drawn? in our own backyard. its about choosing where to fight our battles, and personally, i dont want my kid growing up where she could be blown up because terrorists hate america. and dont pull the "so you would do that to the iraquis" crap. its us or them, not both.
and this "enlisting without thinking ill actually go to war" is bullcrap. who the hell joins the military thinking that they wont go fight? the ignorant, for one, but then again, i dont want to serve with those guys anyways.
oh, and nice post brain. i have tremendous respect for your family, especially your uncle who died in combat. those crosses are there to let the enemy know not to shoot as a medics job is to tend for everyone, bad guys or otherwise, but in modern guerrilla warfare, rules like that dont apply, unfortunately.
anyways, i suck with words. ill let zapp do the talking, as he royally sodomized you guys.
-------------------- [quote]Gumby said: And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader. READ DAMNIT! [/quote]
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BrAiN
Art Fag

Registered: 03/01/01
Posts: 6,875
Loc: Chocolate City
Last seen: 2 years, 5 months
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zappaisgod]
#7673864 - 11/24/07 08:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Personally, I don't feel THAT threatened by the Patriot Act, but I think that people are entitled to feel their privacy could too easily be invaded. Our government was established with checks and balances for a reason and wiretapping without a judjges approval seems a bit threatening to our freedom.
Sure it may seem ridiculous to people like Zappa to think the Patriot Act is a slippery slope to 1984, but given how easily it is for people in power to try to abuse their power, I don't blame people for feeling threatened. 1/3 of the countries in the world are run by nutjobs who managed to slowly trick their country into thinking their the savior of their nation (e.g. North Korea) so I don't think it's that farfetched to think there are plenty of people who would abuse that power.
I mean hell... I hate Bush but I think he has good intentions. However I can't imagine how bad we'd be if we had the Patriot Act with some kiniving bitch like Hillary running the country. I think it's bad enough to have a zealous bunch of people like the Republicans in the White House using the Patriot Act to their will, but I think there are too many elitist ass Democrats who would REALLY start to abuse it.
I don't think people so much have a problem with what the Patriot Act has done, but what it is capable of doing. All someone in the executive branch has to do is label you a possible terrorist and not even have to present evidence toa judge and bam... you're entire life is recorded.
It's the invasion of privacy that is people's problem.
That whole "If you have nothing to hide then you have nothing to worry about" is bunk. If one overly zealous person decides to poke around in your life, he'll have almost no legal obstacles to clicking a few buttons and bam... hundreds of people are listening to your conversations and poking into your private business.
I'd like to take all the people who use the "if you have nothing to hde.." argument... put some hidden cameras and microphones in their house and then broadcast everything about that person on network television in prime time. I'd like to see what they thought about having all their dirty laundry aired in front of 300,000,000 people. Who cares if it's 300 million people or 100 people in suits in DC listening to how you smoked pot, jerked off in the shower, took a shit that looked like Jesus, etc...
The point is you still have total strangers listening to how you jerked off in the shower and took a shit that looked like Jesus. Even just ONE person listening to how I jerked off in the shower is one person too many.
The Patriot Act may not directly be a threat as of now, but it's a law which can cause great damage because of it's potential for abuse.
I live in a pretty safe neighborhood and I think 99.999% of the time I'd be safe enough to keep my doors unlocked in of some emergency that could be cataostrophic to me... like my wife has a heart attack and can't unlock the door, but I lock it anyways because I don't want to risk a rare case of some untamed asshole busting in and invading my privacy or raping my family members. You could argue that a law needs to be passed to make everyone in safe neighborhoods unlock their doors in the rare even of some rare emergency where they need to get in, but I'd prefer just to keep my doors locked.
Ben Franklin once (disputedly) said: "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety". Whether or not it was Frankling or some other founder, the point it this quote was kept in mind my many of the trailblazers that created our government and I think it should still ring true today.
To avoid being accused of any straw man argument, I'll say the following paragraph doesn't deal so much with zappa's comments:
I argue with a lot of hardcore christians about the patriot act and other issues. When I bring up this quote I usually get the response "Well.. times are different so we need to adapt and bla bla bla". What's ironic is that when I start talking about how the marriage of church and state needs to be checked because some religions deserve to be treated fairly, I always get the argument "Well this country was founded on religious freedom for CHRISTIANS! not Muslims!".
I find it amusing that so many people who seem to think that our founding principles regarding privacy can be adapted, but our founding principles regarding religion cannot.
Edited by BrAiN (11/24/07 08:43 AM)
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Redstorm
Prince of Bugs




Registered: 10/08/02
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: FecalDildo]
#7673954 - 11/24/07 09:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FecalDildo said: How long would a wall need to be in order to list the names of the one million Vietnamese that were killed in that war?
You should probably ask someone from Vietnam, b/c it wouldn't make much sense for the United States to build one.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Posts: 81,741
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: BrAiN]
#7673966 - 11/24/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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My challenge was not to you, it was to the other guy. I also understand the slippery slope discomfort. But there is, as far as I can tell, nothing in the Patriot Act that allows improper evidence to be introduced in a trial. Just a lot of hysterical crap from the likes of Alex Jones. Most people here should be a lot more concerned about sniffer dogs and thermal imaging, both allowed.
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Coaster
Baʿal



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Posts: 33,501
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Re: Army desertion rates up 80% [Re: zappaisgod]
#8880211 - 09/04/08 11:59 PM (15 years, 4 months ago) |
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we must fite 2 end terror!
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