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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Registered: 06/08/04
Posts: 1,409
Last seen: 3 years, 5 months
UFO's
    #7644384 - 11/16/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Why is it that whenever someone spots a UFO, it is always somehow linked to Aliens?  What makes it so that we have to associate something as common as a flying machine to something as far out as an extra-terrestrial visit?

Is it that hard to believe that it could be a strangely shaped aerial vehicle being tested? 

I am not saying that aliens don't exist, as I have never seen any solid evidence either way.  But how is it a logical jump from flying machine to ALIENS?

:hippie:

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OfflineMushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs
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Registered: 12/02/05
Posts: 14,794
Loc: red panda village
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7644398 - 11/16/07 02:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:shrug:

I suspect that for the same reasons which make people accept Jesus their savior - insecurity, the need for an outside force to help them.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7644404 - 11/16/07 02:07 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Our generations were raised on the Twilight Zone and Star Trek.:monkeydance:


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 02:07 PM)

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OfflineQuoiyaien
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Posts: 1,409
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Re: UFO's [Re: Icelander]
    #7644437 - 11/16/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Our generations were raised on the Twilight Zone and Star Trek.:monkeydance:




:lol:

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: UFO's [Re: Icelander]
    #7644443 - 11/16/07 02:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

*OG 'accidentally' runs over Ice's fave smiley*



Sorry about your monkey. :frown: :evil:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7644585 - 11/16/07 02:53 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Um, maybe because THOUSANDS of people all over the world claimed to have seen 3 foot tall humanoids in gray suits walk out of them?

There is much circumstantial and hearsay evidence that they are not extraterrestrial, but live here on Earth underground and farm us from above.

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7644629 - 11/16/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

He looks OK to me.:shrug: He just needs a little rest. Working for the cosmetic industry is tiring.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7644636 - 11/16/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Um, maybe because THOUSANDS of people all over the world claimed to have seen 3 foot tall humanoids in gray suits walk out of them?

There is much circumstantial and hearsay evidence that they are not extraterrestrial, but live here on Earth underground and farm us from above.




Don Juan would not agree. They come from deep space, but you're right about the farming bit. They keep us in a state of uninterrupted internal dialog and then feed off our chaotic emotions.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7644721 - 11/16/07 03:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Um, maybe because THOUSANDS of people all over the world claimed to have seen 3 foot tall humanoids in gray suits walk out of them?




Armani with pin stripes. :thumbup:

Um, how about the ten thousand people who claimed the Phoenix Lights were:

1. Directly overhead. (Video analysis showed they were many miles east of the observers.

2. The object was enormous and solid - a mothership! (Nope. Once again analysis showed them to be a cluster of military flares hundreds of yards aparts from each other.

And on and on the misidentification goes. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: UFO's [Re: Icelander]
    #7644726 - 11/16/07 03:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
He looks OK to me.:shrug: He just needs a little rest. Working for the cosmetic industry is tiring.




:rofl2:


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Invisibleredgreenvines
irregular verb
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Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 38,956
Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7644906 - 11/16/07 04:33 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I am a little slightly jealous of those people who have had interesting encounters with unusual flying phenomena from outside of our technology, if they really did encounter such a thing and well so many seem to attest and swear that they did in public and international forums. but I don't feel very jealous, just a little bit in case it is true.
now if the do have aliens in formaldehyde at area 54 I wish they would fess up properly and stop monkeying around.


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:

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InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
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Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 10,065
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7645169 - 11/16/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i dont think that those were proven to be military flares. I would like to see the article that proves it if you dont mind.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
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Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
Re: UFO's [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7645234 - 11/16/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Google is your friend. Use it.

Multiple videos submitted by UFO believers clearly showed the objects slowly descending behind a mountain range 50 miles from downtown Phoenix, exactly where the Air Force was conducting tests using miltary flares.

Remember that 90-95% of UFO sightings are at night when the eye and the brain is most easily confused by poor detail.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7645924 - 11/16/07 09:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Um, maybe because THOUSANDS of people all over the world claimed to have seen 3 foot tall humanoids in gray suits walk out of them?

And not a SINGLE ONE of those people can produce a hair, skin fluff, spit, eyelash, fingernail, clothing fiber, or piece of metal that on analysis could not possibly be from Earth.

If I even look at someone hard, a forensics expert will find about a million of my fibers on them. Somehow, this type of evidence is never found even after ET goes for a walk in front of witnesses. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7646048 - 11/16/07 10:08 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Mr. Gray is hairless and near sterile.

There have been documented cases of landing marks burnt into the ground, and radiation sickness in and burns on witnesses, further evidence exists but has been suppressed...

Disclosure IS coming soon folks, stay very tuned...

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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646071 - 11/16/07 10:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

and near sterile.

And you know this how? Oh, right, you made it up.

There have been documented cases of landing marks burnt into the ground

Means nothing. Any hoaxer can burn the ground. There were documented cases of "alien crop circles" until the two guys who started the craze demonstrated how it's done.

and radiation sickness in and burns on witnesses

A person claiming to have been burned by a UFO being treated for radiation? Now THAT would be interesting evidence.

Link to a peer-reviewed medical or science journal corroborating this, please? Hell, I'll even settle for a news story from a credible source that includes the doctors comments about radiation on a UFO witness.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7646089 - 11/16/07 10:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I was abducted by them as a child. I know a lot about this, but I don't require or expect you to believe me.

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
Stranger

Registered: 12/16/04
Posts: 11,123
Loc: Texas
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646093 - 11/16/07 10:24 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i believe you :heart:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646097 - 11/16/07 10:25 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I know a lot about this, but I don't require or expect you to believe me.

That's a great debate strategy you got there.

But, let's get back to the beef: you said there are documented cases of UFO witnesses with radiation sickness. You said this, yes? Why won't you show me this documentation?

Second request. Please prove a link. On the third request, I'll invoke Islander's rule.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7646174 - 11/16/07 10:52 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Thanks for the support adjust. :heart:

Diploid, do you understand the meaning of the words "cover-up"?

What is Islander's rule?

Just because you won't find any solid evidence in Nature or on CNN doesn't mean it's all BS.

Some very interesting stuff appears now and then on http://ufoevidence.org/ which is "mysteriously" down again.

I reserve the right to share whatever information I wish in this forum without having to provide documentation or anything, this isn't court, say and believe what you will, it's not my problem.

I'm not here to debate, prove, or disprove anything. I'm here to share and gather information, the validity of which is for the reader to decide.

But to back up my perspective a little, here's a good article about what lengths the real "men in black" will go to silence the truth:

Lest We Forget By Prof. G. Cope Schellhorn

Death by gunshot to the head. Death by probable poisoning. Death by probable strangulation. Deaths possibly by implantation of deadly viruses. No one lives former. Yet the recent suspicious deaths of UFO investigators Phil Schneider, Ron Johnson, Con Routine, Ann Livingston and Karln Turner, as well as the deaths of a host of researchers in the past, only seem to add emphasis to a reality with which many of the more aware UFOlogists are now quite familiar: not only is UFO research potentially dangerous, but the life span of the average serious investigator falls far short of the national average.

Mysterious and suspicious deaths among UFO investigators are nothing new. In 1971, the well-known author and researcher Otto Binder wrote an article for Saga magazine's Special UFO Report titled "Liquidation of the UFO Investigators:' Binder had researched the deaths of "no less than 137 flying saucer researchers, writers, scientists, and witnesses' who had died in the previous 10 years, "many under the most mysterious circumstances."

The selected cases Binder offered were loaded with a plethora of alleged heart attacks, suspicious cancers and what appears to be outright examples of murder. We will have occasion to refer to many of these cases, but first let us take a look at more recent evidence of highly suspect deaths among present day researchers.

Phil Schneider

No one has shook up more those who have been following UFO fact and rumor the past few years than Phil Schneider. Schneider died Januarv 17, 1996, reportedly strangled by a catheter found wrapped around his neck. If the circumstances of his death seem highly controversial, they are matched by the controversy over his public statements uttered recently before his death.

Phil Schneider was a self-taught geologist and explosive expert. Of the 129 deep underground facilities Schneider believed the U.S. government had constructed since World War II, he claimed to have worked on 13. Two of these bases were major, including the much rumored bioengineering facility at Dulce, N.M. At Dulce. Schneider maintained, "grey" - humanoid extraterrestrials worked side by side with American technicians. In 1979, a misunderstanding arose. In the ensuing shootout, 66 Secret Service, FBI and Black Berets were killed along with an unspecified number of "grays. It was here he received a beam-weapon blast to the chest which caused his later cancer.

If Schneider is telling the truth, he obviously broke the code of imposed silence to which all major black-budget personnel are subjected. The penalty for that misstep is presumably termination. Schneider in fact maintained that numerous previous attempts had been made on his life, including the removal of lug nuts from one of the front wheels of his automobile. He had stated publicly he was a marked man and did not expect to live long.

Some of Schneider's more major accusations are worthy of attention:

(1) The American government concluded a treaty with "gray" aliens in 1954. This mutual cooperation pack is called the Grenada Treaty.

(2) The space shuttle has been shuttling in special metals. A vacuum atmosphere is needed for the rending of these special alloys, thus the push for a large space station.

(3) Much of our stealth aircraft technology was developed by back-engineering crashed ET craft.

(4) AIDS was a population control virus invented by the National Ordinance Laboratory, Chicago, Illionois.

(5) Unbeknownst to just about everyone, our government has an earthquake device: The Kobe quake had no pulse wave; the 1989 San Francisco quake had no pulse wave.

(6) The World Trade Center bomb blast and the Oklahoma City blast were achieved using small nuclear devices. The melting and pitting of the concrete and the extrusion of metal supporting rods indicated this. (Remember, Schneider's forte, he claimed, was explosives.)

Finally, Phil Schneider lamented that the democracy he loved no longer existed. We had become instead a technocracy ruled by a shadow government intent on imposing their own view of things on all of us, whether we like it or not. He believed I l of his best friends had been murdered in the last 22 years, eight of whom had been officially disposed of as suicides.

Whatever we think of Phil Schneider's claims, there is no denying that he was of peculiar interest to the FBI and CIA. According to his widow, intelligence agents thoroughly searched the premises shortly after his death and made off with at least a third of the family photographs.

Ron Rummel

Another recent disturbing case is the death of Ron Rummel, ex-air force intelligence agent and publisher of the Alien Digest, on August 6, 1993. Rummel allegedly shot himself in the mouth with a pistol. Friends say, however, that no blood was found on the pistol barrel and the handle of the weapon was free of fingerprints. Also, according to information now circulating, the suicide note left by the deceased was written by a left-handed person. Rummel was right-handed. Perspiration on the body smelled like sodium pentothal, or so it is alleged.

The Alien Digest ran to seven limited issues, all now almost impossible to acquire. One thing is certain. Ron Rummel's magazine was touching on sensitive issues such as the predator/prey aspect of the alien/human relationship and the use of humans as food and recyclable body parts. Did Rummel cross a forbidden line? It would seem so. But which line, and where? Interestingly enough, one of Rummel's friends was Phil Schneider, and the two had been collaborating.

Ron Johnson

An equally disturbing and more recent death is that of Ron (Jerrold) Johnson, at the time MUFON's Deputy Director of Investigations. Johnson was 43 years old and, it would seem, in excellent health. He had just passed a recent physical examination with the proverbial flying colors. However, on June 9, 1994, while attending a Society of Scientific Exploration meeting in Austin, Texas, Johnson died quickly and amid very strange circumstances. During a slide show, several people sitting close to him heard a gasp. When the lights were turned back on, Johnson was slumped over in his chair, his face purple, blood oozing from his nose. A soda can, from which he had been sipping, was sitting on the chair next to him.

Did Ron Johnson die of a stroke? Possibly. An allergic reaction? Another possibility.

Some of the more outstanding facts of Ron Johnson's life might easily lead a more skeptical-minded person to a tentative conclusion that his death was probably neither accidental nor natural. For instance, his most recent job was with the Institute of Advanced Studies, purportedly working on UFO propulsion systems. He had been formerly employed by Earth Tech, Inc., a private Austin, Texas, think tank headed by Harold Puthoff. It would appear he held high security clearances, traveled frequently between San Antonio and White Sands, and had attended 2 secret NATO meetings in the last year or so. One of those meetings, it is rumored dealt with ET communications. Although advanced in years, there are some who believe that Dr. Hynek's death was because of "strange circumstances," due to the high number of researchers who have died of brain tumors or cancer. If all or most of the facts offered above are accurate, one thing seems obvious: Johnson was walking both sides of the street. This in itself was highly dangerous, and he may have paid the ultimate price in an attempt to serve more than one master.

As for exactly what killed Ron Johnson, a number of possibilities beyond natural ones present themselves. It is quite easy in this day and age to induce strokes through chemicals or pulsed radiation. It is just as easy, and has been for some time, to induce heart attacks and other physical debilitations, such as fast-acting cancers. The best bet is that Ron Johnson was eliminated by a quick-acting toxin, perhaps a nerve agent. As for exactly why he was killed, we will probably never know. The autopsy, somewhat ludicrously, has been officially classified as inconclusive.

Ann Livingston

As a side note, a nurse returning home from Austin shortly after Johnson's death reported a similar death-situation aboard her plane. When she tried to move rearward to offer her assistance, she was forcefully restrained from doing so. Could it be, one wonders, that some agent, through an accident, was the victim of his own machinations? The idea strikes a nice note of poetic justice, if in fact that were the scenario.

Another death involving elements of high strangeness is that of Ann Livingston, who died in early 1994 of a fast-form of ovarian cancer. Livingston made her living as an accountant, but she was also a MUFON investigator and had in fact, published an article entitled "Electronic Harassment and Alien Abductions" in the November 1993 MUFON Journal. The article was highly critical of Julianne McKinney, directorof the Electronic Surveillance Project of the Association of National Security Alumni. McKinney discounts U FO phenomena, believing that what passes for such is most often one kind of governmental ploy or another, whether in the form of experimental machinery or experimental psychology.

Some facts which seem relevant to the case stand out. At 7:15 AM, December 29th 1992, Livingston's apartment close to O'Hare airport, in Chicago, Illinois, was lit up brightly by a silverwhite flash. She was accosted later in the day while in her apartment parking lot by 5 MIBs (Men in Black) which she described as being almost faceless and carrying long, flashlight-like black objects. She was rendered unconscious. What, we must ask, assuming her story is true, was done to her at this time, and wh'? And did it have anything to do with her later rapidly-advancing ovarian cancer?

It is not a well-known fact that Ann Livingston had been previously abducted. Her friend, Fran Heiser, has stated that Ann Livingston had met two handsome people, a man and woman, on an earlier trip to Mexico. To Livingston's surprise, the man told her that the attractive young lady she was meeting was in fact her daughter.

Karla Turner

Could genital intrusions from past UFO abductions have poisoned in some way Ann Livingston's system? That is exactly the suspicion Karla Turner (author of Maquerade of Angels, Taken, and Into the Fringe) had about the breast cancer that preceded her death during the summer of 1996. Both publicly and privately, Karla Turner held up the specter of alien retaliation for statements she made in print, especially in Masquerade of Angels. How much her suspicions were founded in reality we will probably never know. (A good site on Karla Turner is http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Crete/9923/karla.html

Who or what is killing UFO investigators now and in the past? Probably some of the deaths presented here-that look at first glance so suspicious---are in fact natural or accidental or self-inflicted because of stress or mental imbalances. But, as Otto Binder noted more than 25 years ago, there are so many. Pure common sense, and good logic, should lead us to believe that the high incidence of premature death in a field which has a limited number of investigators is very disproportionate compared to the population at large.

Spider Web of Causes

What we may have IS a concatenation, a spider web, of interweaving threads which are causal and often, in fact, deadly. One thread is the activities of the US (and other) intelligence agencies. Another thread is possible ET involvement. A third thread is the involvement of certain PSI-tech think tanks and private PSI/PK practitioners, including negative occultists. A possible fourth thread is highly reactionary religious cults which feel they are carrying out the will of God. It is more than likely that one or more or all of the above agencies are responsible in whole or in part for many of the deaths from the recent past, which have already been mentioned and many of those remaining cases from the present to the more distant past, some of which we will now explore.

Danny Casolaro

Danny Casolaro, an investigative reporter looking into the theft of Project Promise software, a program capable of tracking down anyone anywhere in the world, died in 1991, a reported suicide.

Casolaro was also investigating several UFO "NO-Nos" Pine Gap, Area 51 and governmental bioengineering.

Mae Bussell

Not long ago, Mae Bussell, a gutsy, no-holds-barred, investigative radio host died of a fast-acting cancer just like Ann Livingston and Karla Turner. Bussell was acutely interested in UFOlogy.

The directors of APRO, Coral and Jim Lorenzen, a Tucson-based UFO group, both died of Cancer. Deck Slayton

Deke Slayton, the astronaut, was purportedly ready to talk about his UFO experiences, but cancer also intervened.

Brian Lynch

Brian Lynch, young psychic and contactee, died in 1985, purportedly of a drug overdose. According to Lynch's sister, Geraldine, Brian was approached approximately a year before his death by an intelligence operative working for an Austin, Texas, PSI-tech company. Geraldine said they told Brian they were experimenting on psychic warfare techniques. After his death, a note in his personal effects was found with the words "Five million from Pentagon for Project Scanate."

Capt. Don Elkin

In the '80s Eastern Airlines pilot Capt. Don Elkin committed suicide. He had been investigating the UFO coverup for over 10 years and, at the time, was deep into the study of the Ra material with ('aria Rucker. There are reports of negative psychological interferences having developed during this latter investigation.

Bizarre Death of Scientists

Certainly nothing is stranger, and breeds speculation more quickly, than the 30-some-odd deaths associated with SDI (Star Wars) research at Marconi Ltd. in England between approximately 1985-1988. Here in capsulated form is a list of a few of the more bizarre deaths:

Roger Hill, a designer at Marconi Defense Systems, allegedly commits suicide with a shotgun, March 1985.

Jonathan Walsh, a digital communications expert employed by GEC, Marconi's parent firm, falls from his hotel room, November 1985, after expressing fear for his life.

Ashad Sharif, another Marconi scientist, reportedly tied a rope around his neck, and then to a tree, in October 1986, got behind the wheel of his car and stepped on the gas with predictable results.

In March of 1988, Trevor Knight, also associated with Marconi, died of carbon monoxide poisoning in his car.

Peter Ferry, marketing director of the firm, was found shocked to death with electrical leads in his mouth (August 1988).

Also during the same month of the same year, Alistair Beckham was found shocked to death with electric leads attached to his body and his mouth stuffed with a handkerchief. He was an engineer with the allied firm of Plessey Defense Systems.

And, finally, but by no means the sole remaining death in this unique cluster, Andrew Hall was found dead in September of 1988 of carbon monoxide poisoning.

What, you may be asking, does SDI research have to do with the deaths of UFO investigators? Theoretically, quite a lot. If, as many investigators have hypothesized, Star Wars research was initiated with the dual purpose of protecting "us" against Soviet aggression and/or the presence of UFO craft in our atmosphere, then several possibilities arise. Most compelling is the idea that the soviet KGB, realizing that the Western powers were on the verge of perfecting a high-powered beam-weapon that could be used from outer space or atmospheric space against them, marshaled a last-gasp, all-out espionage offensive to slow or destroy the project. If this scenario is true, and the weapon was indeed successfully developed, we have an explanation for the collapse of the Soviet Union ("Surrender or you might be incinerated").

Other explanations have been offered. For example, scientists working on the project discovered the true nature of the research they were involved with and the overwhelming stress led them to suicide. Or they discovered that their real collaborators were "greys," or Western politicians working with/for grey aliens. One thing seems obvious. Something went terribly wrong at Marconi. Scientists usually don't commit the kinds of bizarre, "unscientific" suicides we find here.

One other possibility is that a contingent of unfriendly ETs got wind of what GEC and Marconi and its affiliates were up to and, to protect themselves, created enough psychic trauma within the minds of many of the scientists to drive them to suicide. But if this is so, why have the deaths stopped? Has the project been shelved? Highly unlikely. The best bet is that the project was completed, roughly about 1988, and whatever it is, beam-weapon or otherwise, it is now operational.

Certainly neither the public at large, and not even UFOlogists generally, seem thoroughly aware of the real risks UFO investigators run. In fact those UFOlogists who are aware of the suspicious deaths of some of their colleagues in the 50s and 60s, seem to believe that whatever forces and agencies that were then responsible have softened their tactics in the `80s and `90s. The evidence, as we have indicated, does not seem to support such a conclusion. There is no doubt, however, that the `50s and `60s produced some strange goings-on.

Jessup and McDonald

Undoubtedly the most intriguing (and perhaps appalling) deaths in UFOlogy were those of Dorothy Kilgallen, M.K. Jessup and Dr. James McDonald - the former an alleged accident, the latter two purported suicides. The details of these deaths, despite official pronouncements to the contrary, are disturbing to say the least. Each of the three individuals seemed to have much to live for, all were successful, and everyone of them was deeply immersed in the relatively new UFO-phenomena proglem.

Dorothy Kilgallen

Dorothy Kilgallen was the most famous syndicated woman journalist of her day. Stationed in England in 1954 - 55, and privy to the highest levels of English society and its secrets, she wired two unusual dispatches which may have contributed to her death. The first, sent in February 1954, mentioned a "special hush-hush meeting of the world's military heads" scheduled to take place the following summer. The 1955 dispatch, which barely preceded her death from an alleged overdose of sleeping pills and alcohol (a la Marilyn Monroe), quoted an unnamed British official of cabinet rank, `We believe, on the basis of our inquiry thus far, that saucers were staffed by small men-probably under four feet tall. It's frightening, but there is no denying the flying saucers come from another planet.'

Whatever the source (rumored to be the Earl of Mountbatten), this kind of leak in the atmosphere of the mid- 50s was an unacceptable leak. It is well to recall that the secret CIA-orchestrated Robertson Panel had met in 1953 and issued the Robertson Report. Briefly summarized, this document-and the attitudes reflected there - represented a new hard-line attitude to covering up all significant UFO phenomena. The year 1953 and the meeting of the Robertson Panel truly initiated the UFO coverup as we know it today, with a few extra dollops having been added.

Did Dorothy Kilgallen actually commit accidental suicide? There appears to be an excellent chance she had help.

Dr. James McDonald, senior physicast, Institute of Atmospheric Physics and also professor in the Department of Meteorology at the University of Arizona, died in 1971 purportedly of a gunshot wound to the head. There is no one who had worked harder in the 60s than McDonald to convince Congress to hold serious, substantial subcommittee meetings to explore the UFO reality of which he was thoroughly convinced. He was definitely a thorn in the side of those who maintained the official coverup and, needless to say, his passing to them would be a blessing.

McDonald, allegedly depressed, shot himself in the head. But, alas, he didn't die. He was wheelchair-ridden but somehow, several months after his first attempt, he allegedly got in an automobile, drove to a pawnshop, purchased another pistol from his wheelchair, drove to the desert and did himself in. How convenient, one might say, for his adversaries. And McDonald, there can be no doubt, had made enemies. The question is: How much did these enemies aid and abet the demise of this most worthy and influential campaigner?


Astronomer MIL Jessup

When astronomer and archaeologist M. K. Jessup allegedly committed suicide in Dade County Park, FL., in 1959 certain alarm bells should have gone off. There is no doubt the well-known author of such influential works as The Case for the UFO and The Expanding Case for the UFO had been depressed. Things had not been going well for him, and he had, it must be admitted, indicated his gloom to close friends, Ivan Sanderson, the biologist, and Long John Nebel, the well-known New York City radio host. Sanderson reported him disturbed by "a series of strange events" which put him "into a completely insane world of unreality."

Was the reality Jessup was faced with at the time "completely insane" or were there, perhaps, forces driving Jessup to the edge, forces with a plan? Anna Genzlinger thoroughly investigated his death. Her conclusion: "He was under some sort of control." Remember, these were the days of secret governmental mind-control experiments which have only recently been uncovered.

Certain facts about the case raise redflags. For example, no autopsy was performed, contrary to the state law. Sergeant Obenclain, who was on the scene shortly after Jessup's body was discovered, has said for the record, "Everything seemed too professional." The hose from the car exhaust was wired on; and it was, strangely, washing machine hose. Jessup died at rush hour, with more than the usual amount of traffic passing by. He had been visited by Carlos Allende three days before his death and according to his wife, had been receiving strange phone calls. We know the navy was very much interested in what he was doing; and we all know, or should know, it is the ONI (Office of Naval Investigations) that has been in the forefront, from the very beginning, of the UFO coverup.

And what of particular interest was Jessup investigating at the time? Something that was top secret and would remain so for some time: the Philadelphia Experiment. Dr. James McDonald tried to convince Congress to look into the UFO situation. He died after shooting himself a short while later.The late astronomer Dr. M.K. Jessup was the first to reveal details of the Philadelphia Experiment-he died a few months later. Frank Edwards

Frank Edwards, the noted news commentator, died of an alleged heart attack on June 24, 1967, on the 20th anniversary of the Kenneth Arnold sighting. Was that coincidence?

Probably not. Several other prominent UFOlogists died the same day, Arthur Bryant, the contactee, Richard Church, chairman of CIGIUFO and the space writer, Willie Ley. The circumstances surrounding the death of Edwards, who like James McDonald was pushing for meaningful Congressional subcommittee meetings, raise huge questions. It so happens that a "World UFO Conference" was being held in New York City at the Commodore hotel on that very day in June, chaired by UFO publisher and author Gray Barker. Barker stated publicly that he had received two letters and a telephone call threatening that Frank Edwards, who was not in attendance, would not be alive by the conference's end.

It definitely looks like someone was sending a message. As an unhappy sequel to this account, Rep. Rouse, who had been supporting Edwards in his campaign for Congressional attention to the UFO issue, died of a similar heart attack shortly afterwards.

The annals of UFOlogy are frighteningly filled with the deaths of UFOlogists from unusual cancers, heart attacks, questionable suicides and all manner of strange happenings. Did former Secretary of Defense James Forrestal really commit suicide as purported by jumping out a hotel window at about the time saucers may have been crashing down in the southwestern desert? Was UFO writer Damon Runyon, Jr.'s suicidal plunge off a Washington D.C. bridge in 1988 really an act of will? What really happened to Dr. B. Noel Opan who, in 1959, after an alleged visit by MIBs, disappeared, as did Edgar Jarrold, the Australian UFOlogist, in 1960.

How do we explain the rash of heart attacks that took so many: Frank Edwards, Rep. Rouse, author H. T. Wilkins, Henry E Kock, publicity director of the Universal Research Society of America, author Frank Scully and contactee George Adamski? How do we correlate accurately the large number of purported suicides, including: Rev. Della Larson, contactee, author Gloria Lee (Byrd), Marie Ford, UFO enthusiast who discovered Larson's body, researcher Doug Hancock, and, more recently, researcher Feron Hicks? What do we do with the inordinately large number of cancer deaths which pepper the UFO field and burn doubtful holes in our credulity: Canadian researcher Wilbert B. Smith, Brazilian researcher Dr. Olavo Fontes, Jim and Coral Lorenzen (photos are earlier in this article), and the deaths of biologist Ivan Sanderson and CUFOS founder James A. Hynek (photo at the start of this article) (both from rare brain cancer)?

Certainly not all of these individuals, as well as many other less prominent researchers that space limitations do not allow us to mention, were marked for termination. Many, perhaps most, died natural deaths. But so many of the cases leave doubt; some seem to be branded by the mark of Cain. We know now how easy it is to induce strokes and heart attacks through chemicals, pulsed beams and microbes. We have learned that the federal government was (and still is) involved in PSI-tech research. An individual's mind is rather easily manipulated, and minds can be subtly beaten like putty into despair and madness.


The late Ivan T. Sanderson passed away unexpectedly. He was head of a major UFO/paranormal group! UFOlogy is not the safe, hobbyistic pastime some would like it to be. There is danger, real danger in sticking your nose in places where the powers that be don't want you to be. Many of the deaths related above are highly suspicious. Some appear to be outright murder.

What is the cause, who the villain? Again, it must be emphasized that the "problem" is complex. Rogue intelligence agencies, negative ET groups, freelancing PSI-tech firms, and reactionary cultist groups all seem to play, or to have played, a part in the more nefarious UFO-related events described here including the possible homicides of UFO researchers in past decades as well as more recently. It seems highly likely that sometimes one or more of these agencies may be working together, either with or without the knowledge of the other's presence.

What can we do about such a state of affairs? Several things. We can inform ourselves like good democratic citizens. And we can inform others. We can and must raise a hue and cry when we suspect foul play. If we are to protect our very lives and the democratic hopes we say we cherish, then we must not go, silent and ignorant, into the night, pretending an innocence we have not earned.


Copyright © 1997: GCR Publishing Group Inc., 1700 Broadway, New York NY 10019. All rights reserved.



---------------------------------

By Stephanie Relfe:

Since the above article was written there have been other notable deaths in the field, including:

William Cooper Author of the classic book: "Behold a Pale Horse"

www.HalTurnerShow.com 8 - 9 PM EST Monday Nights on WBCQ 7.415 MHz & 9-11 PM Tue. - Fri. on the Net SHOT DEAD! WBCQ SHORT-WAVE RADIO TALK SHOW HOST WILLIAM "BILL" COOPER Eager, AZ -- Short-wave radio talk show host William "Bill" Cooper was shot dead last night during a gun battle with Sheriff's Deputies. According to Detective Frank Valenzuela of the Arizona Department of Public Safety, the shooting took place at 11:40 PM outside of Cooper's home at 96 North Clearview Circle, Eager, AZ.

Det. Valenzuela stated that Deputies from the Apache County Sheriff's Department were attempting to serve an arrest warrant upon Mr. Cooper. The Warrant, issued by the Round Valley Judicial Precinct in Springerville, AZ charged Cooper with one Count of Aggravated Assault With A Deadly Weapon, and two Counts of "Endangerment." The Warrant was issued on August 29, 2001 for an incident which allegedly took place on July 11, 2001. The Court Case Number on the Warrant is CR-01-0310. Neither Valenzuela, nor the Apache County Attorney's Office would reveal the name of the alleged victim(s). They did say the complaint was signed by Detective Paul Kirkum of the Eager, AZ Sheriff's Dept.

According to Valenzuela, Police had intelligence that Cooper had a large quantity of weapons in his home, and possibly explosives. Valenzuela also said the police knew that during his radio show on WBCQ, Cooper repeatedly stated that he "would kill any law enforcement officers that tried to take him." As such, the Sheriff's Department wanted to arrest Cooper away from his home, so as to minimize the possibility of armed conflict.

According to Police, Cooper lived on a hilltop over looking several undeveloped areas and other homes below. Despite not owning the land below his home, Cooper was known to chase teenagers or young lovers off the land and Police decided to use this to lure Cooper away from his home. Det. Valenzuela stated that two undercover Sheriff's Deputies were sent in a pick-up truck to the area below Cooper's home. There were also two uniformed Deputies in the bed of the pick-up. As expected, Cooper drove down to that area from his home and told the two undercover Deputies to leave.

But Cooper left and drove away toward his home before the undercover deputies could do anything. While on his way back up the hill, a fully marked Sheriff's patrol vehicle blocked the road(1) in front of Cooper. Uniformed members of the Sheriff's Department SWAT Team (2) exited that marked vehicle and told Cooper to stop, keep his hands where they could see them and exit the vehicle. They say Cooper placed one hand outside his window, then accelerated around the police car, trying to run over a Sheriff Sergeant. Police gave brief chase to Cooper's home.

Police say Cooper exited his vehicle, drew a handgun and began firing at Deputies as he ran toward his house. One Deputy Sheriff was struck at least once and possibly twice in the head.(3) Another Deputy returned fire, hitting Cooper several times.

The wounded Deputy was evacuated by Helicopter to a hospital in Phoenix. Cooper was pronounced dead at the scene by Paramedics who were at the scene standing-by (4).



The following questions arise from this incident:

(1) Cooper would have had to pass the marked Police patrol Vehicle while going down the hill. Why would he do so without seeing it and fleeing? Further, how could he drive around it once it came onto the road while Cooper was enroute back to his home?

(2) If Police intended a peaceful, non-violent arrest, why send a SWAT Team?

(3) If Cooper drew a gun and fired "while running back toward his home" as police say, how could he hit a Deputy once and possibly twice in the head? A head-shot is a difficult thing to accomplish with a hand gun, never mind two head shots while the shooter is running!

(4) Why were Paramedics "on the scene standing-by" if Sheriffs intended this to be a peaceful arrest?

These questions make The Hal Turner Show wonder if Bill Cooper was set-up (Editor's note: & mind controlled?) to be gunned down, or just a victim of his own big mouth and prudent police planning? We pray for the soul of Mr. Cooper, and for the life of the Deputy shot in the head.

Stanley Kubrick

While not a UFO researcher, I feel that Stanley Kubrick deserves a mention here. I believe that Stanley Kubrick, who died shortly after the release of his movie "Eyes wide shut" was killed by advanced technology. I believe that his earlier movie "2001 a space odyssey" indicated that he was in alignment with the secret powers that be. For example, it showed "The Black Block" which is worshipped by masonry and is in the headquarters of the United Nations in New York.

However, people change. He didn't produce a movie for twenty years before he produced "Eyes wide shut". This movie was kept in super secrecy until it came out. Even reviewers did not see it until the day it was released. Most people did not know what to make of it. They didn't recognize it for what I believe it was, namely a documentary, of the kind of religious rituals that the powers that be are involved in. In the movie Tom Cruise is told towards the end something like "If you knew who those people were, you wouldn't sleep at night". I believe that Kubrick towards the end turned towards the good side, and wanted to get information out to the people. I believe that Kubrick was killed by advanced technology by people who he was once aligned with.

OR, was Kubrick's death more closely related to 9-11 and the World Trade Center. This farout-idea is supported by an article at http://geocities.com/markamooky/2001_and_911.html

While on the subject of "Eyes Wide Shut" I have wondered if Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman were also punished for acting in this movie, by breaking up their marriage. After all, the movie would have been nowhere near as famous if they hadn't acted in it. The secret government has technology they can beam at people to help break up marriages. I am not alone in this thought. I have read elsewhere on the net: I'm sure most readers will also be aware that it was the film which many considered one catalyst for Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman's marriage break-up.

For more about "Eyes wide shut" see http://www.ellisctaylor.com/eyeswideshut.html

Dean Stonier

Dean was the organizer and promoter of the Global Sciences Congress, that over the years hosted many top researchers including Phil Schneider and Al Bielek, the sole survivor of the Philadelphia Experiment. Dean died of a heart attack in August 2001, just a few months after a Denver Global Sciences Congress.

Jim Keith

Jim Keith died in 1999. Author of many books including Mind Control, World Control. Jim died in hospital during surgery to repair a broken leg he achieved while attending the infamous Burning Man Festival in Nevada. It seems a blood clot was released during the surgery and travelled to the heart causing a pulmonary edema.

Ron Bonds

Ron Bonds sold conspiracies. The Atlantan published books on unsolved mysteries and unexplained phenomena, from the Kennedy assassination to the ominous black helicopters of the New World Order. In the subculture of the paranormal, his reputation was such that writers for "The X-Files" used to call him for ideas.

In April 2001, fifteen hours after eating a meal with warm beef from a Mexican restaurant in Atlanta, after an agonizing evening of vomiting and diarrhea, Bonds was taken by ambulance from their home to Grady Memorial Hospital. During an autopsy, the medical examiner found copious amounts of blood in the bowels, so he sent a stool sample to the Georgia Public Health Laboratory in Decatur. The lab discovered high levels of Clostridium perfringens Type A, a bacterium often seen in small quantities in beef and poultry. When it occurs in larger quantities -- anything above 100,000 organisms per gram is considered unsafe -- it can release toxins that cause diarrhea, vomiting and, rarely, hemorrhaging. The bacterium figures in 250,000 cases of food poisoning a year, the CDC estimates, only seven of which result in death.

Four days after Bonds ate there, epidemiologists visited El Azteca to collect samples of ground beef from the steam table. When C. perfringens becomes dangerous, it usually has to do with cooked meat being held at too low a temperature. The lab found 6 million organisms per gram -- 60 times the safety threshold.

One obvious question is: Why didn't other people get sick too? More info here.

---------------------------------

Philip K. Dick. (this came to me from a reader): Science fiction author of Bladerunner and Minority Report. Had continuing contact for several years, then died of a stroke under somewhat mysterious circumstances on March 2 1982. He was writing a non-fiction book about his experiences with alien contact. It was never published, and the manuscript has disappeared.


Final Word from editor Stephanie Relfe: Since the field of UFO & secret government research seems to have a lot of danger attached to it, it is highly recommended that people involved in this do so only when they feel guided to do so by God and their intuition and higher self, NOT because it is exciting or profitable, or because "the world needs it". If you do what God wants you to do, I believe you will be given protection. Joan of Arc was given protection and success in the early stages when God was speaking to her. But later she continued on under her own steam, not noticing that God did not tell her to do more than he originally asked her to do, and she paid the price.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646227 - 11/16/07 11:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

The secret government has technology they can beam at people to help break up marriages.




Can't argue with lunacy, Diploid. :tinfoil:


For those who choose (correctly) not to ready the entire fantasy, I will give a summation: UFO researchers, unlike non-researchers should live forever. Their death(s) from something like a heart attack is proof of alien invasion.

*cue theremin music*


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646245 - 11/16/07 11:21 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If someone was treated for radiation sickness, there would be a record at a hospital and another at the ambulance service that transported the sick person. There would also be witnesses by the dozen in the nurses, phlebotomists, doctors, and lab technitians who would have to know about it because they treated the guy.

And radiation sickness is rare enough that it would have made the local news.

You can't cover up a case of radiation sickness. It's absurd to believe you can.

So, as I was expecting, you claim there is documentation of a radiation sick UFO witness, then you claim there is no documentation whatsoever because of a totally implausible covered up.

You're two for two. First you can sense chakras in others, then you refuse to do it for a million bucks, now you make up some bullshit about how aliens are sterile and there's documentation of UFO witnesses with radiation poisoning,
but you can't produce any trace of that documentation.

Way to go. :yesnod:

And Icelander's rule: when someone states possible bullshit and is called on it three times without the bullshitter backing up his claim, his claim is adjudicated bullshit. :shrug:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7646258 - 11/16/07 11:27 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I didn't say documentation of radiation sickness among UFO witnesses didn't exist because of the cover up, that's just why it isn't in the major media.

I said I don't feel compelled to provide it here because proving it to you isn't my purpose, simply sharing my perspective is, "adjudicate" it whatever you want.

The truth is OUT THERE...

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646269 - 11/16/07 11:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
I said I don't feel compelled to provide it here because proving it to you isn't my purpose




Translation: There is no evidence.

Notice though, the five pages on non-evidence that MM dug up to make his point, but his intention wasn't to make his point. :rolleyes:


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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646275 - 11/16/07 11:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Don't mean to sidetrack this wonderful thread, but I've had a little wine so..

I think the writers of X-files are part of a great conspiracy to make us look for answers where there are none so we become sidetracked and unable to claim our freedom. That is why Moulder always says "the truth is OUT THERE" :tinfoil:

Think about it... :tinfoil:


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7646286 - 11/16/07 11:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It's a play on words, it means The Truth is STRANGE.

I didn't spend any time digging up that article OC, It's just what I happened to have handy.

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646289 - 11/16/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ohhhh...

Still though :tinfoil:


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7646292 - 11/16/07 11:37 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I think you might be into something here. :thumbup:
But it all began MUCH earlier, just about the time when the first star trek episode was aired. :satansmoking:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7646320 - 11/16/07 11:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Notice though, the five pages on non-evidence that MM dug up to make his point, but his intention wasn't to make his point.

:rofl2:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7646372 - 11/17/07 12:03 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

When there is so much compelling evidence to support that U.F.O's are real and we have encountered them, how could someone just be a complete skeptic? I'd imagine that more people would at least acknowledge the possibility. having seen unidentified flying objects myself it doesnt take much convincing.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


Edited by ts727 (11/17/07 12:05 AM)

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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7646382 - 11/17/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)



--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7646383 - 11/17/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

'Compelling' in your world must be different than the accepted definition. Flares, Venus, fuzzy photos, pranksters making grass designs, total lack of physical evidence and heresay does not compel me.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7647055 - 11/17/07 09:19 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i dont have a need for things to be true. I just live and experience. And total lack of evidence? i think not. just b/c there have been hoaxes in no way means that all ufo claims are hoaxes. i refuse to believe that this world is a plain and cut and dry as skeptics think it is. Sometimes people are just skeptical because they think that believing in something makes you less intelligent, the only thing that applies to is religion.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: UFO's [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7647097 - 11/17/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I sometimes wonder if certain UFO sightings represent a non-physical phenomenon.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: UFO's [Re: Silversoul]
    #7647190 - 11/17/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

would interdimensional travel be considered a mental phenomenon or a physical phenomenon?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: UFO's [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7647196 - 11/17/07 10:35 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

adjust said:
i believe you :heart:






I own the Brooklyn Bridge and would be willing to sell it to you for only $1,000 dollars.:thumbup: Send check and self addressed envelope and I will send deed.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC

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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: UFO's [Re: Icelander]
    #7647211 - 11/17/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i don't trust you! :evil:

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Offlineshakercee
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Re: UFO's [Re: Icelander]
    #7647219 - 11/17/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:lol: Do you own any other bridges?

Do UFOs land on bridges :wink:


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane

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InvisibleOgla
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Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7647222 - 11/17/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quoiyaien said:
Why is it that whenever someone spots a UFO, it is always somehow linked to Aliens?  What makes it so that we have to associate something as common as a flying machine to something as far out as an extra-terrestrial visit?

Is it that hard to believe that it could be a strangely shaped aerial vehicle being tested? 

I am not saying that aliens don't exist, as I have never seen any solid evidence either way.  But how is it a logical jump from flying machine to ALIENS?

:hippie:




I saw a UFO in the fields over the city i live in.  But was not a spec of light.  It was a giant metallic disk my friend and i saw while riding in my car.  Hovering over a cow field.  we watched for a good 30 seconds and it disappeared.  Even stranger,  an hour later, there were military choppers flying in the area.  I know what i saw was extra terrestrial.  the image of a strange flying object in the fields over paterson still linger in my memory.  It's quiet grasps you by the balls when your looking at something you'd think to only see on  TV.  It was this time of year a year ago when i saw it ..  Late October, early November 2006..  defiently strange

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7476948#7476948

Edited by Ogla (11/17/07 10:50 AM)

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InvisibleClean
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ogla]
    #7647296 - 11/17/07 11:11 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

naw dude it was just your collective unconscious reflecting off some cow gas with the twinkle of uranus and a weather balloon.

Edited by Clean (11/17/07 11:17 AM)

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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: UFO's [Re: Middleman]
    #7647556 - 11/17/07 01:04 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:


I reserve the right to share whatever information I wish in this forum without having to provide documentation or anything, this isn't court, say and believe what you will, it's not my problem.

I'm not here to debate, prove, or disprove anything. I'm here to share and gather information, the validity of which is for the reader to decide.




"This forum is debate oriented and designed for those who seek a lively discussion full of dissenting opinions and rebutted arguments."

Perhaps this is a better place for you not to want to make a point.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Silversoul]
    #7647604 - 11/17/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
I sometimes wonder if certain UFO sightings represent a non-physical phenomenon.




Yes, me too. I have seen one UFO but me and my friends who saw it were all on various psychedelics so it does make me wonder.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ogla]
    #7647800 - 11/17/07 02:41 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

If I show you various metal objects, you can determine their point of origin?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7647808 - 11/17/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

These guys can tell whether or not the objects and aliens are sterile just by looking at them. So of course they can tell the origin. Sheesh!


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7647870 - 11/17/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary ignorance. ~ Karl Sayagain


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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7648188 - 11/17/07 04:54 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

losfreddy said:

I saw a UFO in the fields over the city i live in.  But was not a spec of light.  It was a giant metallic disk my friend and i saw while riding in my car.  Hovering over a cow field.  we watched for a good 30 seconds and it disappeared.  Even stranger,  an hour later, there were military choppers flying in the area.  I know what i saw was extra terrestrial.  the image of a strange flying object in the fields over paterson still linger in my memory.  It's quiet grasps you by the balls when your looking at something you'd think to only see on  TV.  It was this time of year a year ago when i saw it ..  Late October, early November 2006..  defiently strange

http://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/7476948#7476948




Not denying your experience, but that is exactly the point I am trying to make.  Just because it is a UFO, doesn't mean it's an alien vessel.

You just cannot be certain. 

I read a quote once that said "The quest for certainty blinds the quest for truth".  I forget who said it, but I feel it applicable. 

Perhaps you can elaborate on exactly why you thought it was extra-terrestrial.  That is more what I am interested in as opposed to the whole aliens vs. no aliens debate.  The fact that it was unidentified just means that you don't know what it is.  What made you jump to the conclusion that it was an alien ship?

To me, seeing military helicopters flying around after seems to be evidence of military test rather than an alien encounter. 

:hippie:

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Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7648208 - 11/17/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

When you dream of UFOs it supposedly means that you "need to become more grounded". Perhaps this could apply to the physical world as well. Something to think about.


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Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7648213 - 11/17/07 05:02 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Perhaps you can elaborate on exactly why you thought it was extra-terrestrial.




The one UFO that I saw upclose was stamped, "Made in the Pleides" on the bottom. :yesnod:


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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7648256 - 11/17/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That's bullshit, everyone knows the Pleidians speak Portuguese.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7648257 - 11/17/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
When you dream of UFOs it supposedly means that you "need to become more grounded". Perhaps this could apply to the physical world as well. Something to think about.




Hmm I never saw any sense in this kind of dream interpretation. It just doesn't make any sense to me, people dream similar and sometimes identical things for different reasons.
Besides, this kind of interpretation reminds me of fortune telling.
It is very possible to see UFOs and I've seen a few in my life. It just doesn't mean that they're extraterrestrial spaceships. :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleEternalCowabunga
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Re: UFO's [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7648261 - 11/17/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

It made sense to me. I always seem to have the UFO dream when I am way out there in my head. I mean, I used to have the UFO dream A LOT. Many people see UFOs when they are way out there on drugs.

Terrence Mckenna once said that UFOs are our subconscious desperately trying to communicate with us because we have become so alienated from it.


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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7648271 - 11/17/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
It made sense to me. I always seem to have the UFO dream when I am way out there in my head. I mean, I used to have the UFO dream A LOT. Many people see UFOs when they are way out there on drugs.

Terrence Mckenna once said that UFOs are our subconscious desperately trying to communicate with us because we have become so alienated from it. 


Interesting.  I can relate, having had some cool UFO dream experiences myself.  (None IRL though, though I know people who have.)

What does being more grounded mean to you? :sherlock:  I think I know what you mean but not 100% sure.

McKenna have very cool ideas about UFOs; I like his idea about it being the Goddess reasserting herself on a world dominated by images of male deity and the like.  Whether there's even a grain of truth to it, I think it's trippy to think about.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: UFO's [Re: Lion]
    #7648280 - 11/17/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
It made sense to me. I always seem to have the UFO dream when I am way out there in my head. I mean, I used to have the UFO dream A LOT. Many people see UFOs when they are way out there on drugs.

Terrence Mckenna once said that UFOs are our subconscious desperately trying to communicate with us because we have become so alienated from it. 


Interesting.  I can relate, having had some cool UFO dream experiences myself.  (None IRL though, though I know people who have.)

What does being more grounded mean to you? :sherlock:  I think I know what you mean but not 100% sure.

McKenna have very cool ideas about UFOs; I like his idea about it being the Goddess reasserting herself on a world dominated by images of male deity and the like.  Whether there's even a grain of truth to it, I think it's trippy to think about.




Thanks for asking as I was actually going to make a thread about it but decided not to as I didn't have the idea fleshed out too well.

Being grounded to me means being >focused< and when you are focused the thing you are focused on is What Is Important. Human relationships, working towards self-improvement, ongoing trust in the Universe. I find that when I am grounded, my feet are literally planted firmly on the ground :smile:


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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7648306 - 11/17/07 05:31 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That's what I thought. :heartpump:

I need to get outdoors more, and not to search the skies for Pleidians. :smile:

(Not that it wouldn't be cool to find some.)

(And also kind of scary.)

(In a good way.)


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7648309 - 11/17/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
It made sense to me. I always seem to have the UFO dream when I am way out there in my head. I mean, I used to have the UFO dream A LOT. Many people see UFOs when they are way out there on drugs.

Terrence Mckenna once said that UFOs are our subconscious desperately trying to communicate with us because we have become so alienated from it. 




Many of our dreams ARE our subconscious thoughts.
I guess in a way makes sense, but it just doesn't apply to all cases.
But yeah, turning the subconscious into conscious remains a good idea. :lol:
Now totally off topic, I wonder why I always dream about elevators. :sherlock: :lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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Re: UFO's [Re: Lion]
    #7648316 - 11/17/07 05:34 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

I need more reasons to go outside, but I don't need a reason. But in a way I do :yesnod:

Must find something that I really enjoy doing that I can't do in the comfort of my living room.


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Re: UFO's [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7648318 - 11/17/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Now totally off topic, I wonder why I always dream about elevators. :sherlock: :lol:


You like pushing people's buttons? :mad2:

And getting lifted. :bongload:

Opening doors.  :royalrainbow:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: UFO's [Re: EternalCowabunga]
    #7648322 - 11/17/07 05:36 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

EternalCowabunga said:
I need more reasons to go outside, but I don't need a reason. But in a way I do :yesnod:

Must find something that I really enjoy doing that I can't do in the comfort of my living room.


Quail hunting!



--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”

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Re: UFO's [Re: Lion]
    #7648335 - 11/17/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

:lol:


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Re: UFO's [Re: Lion]
    #7648358 - 11/17/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

Now totally off topic, I wonder why I always dream about elevators. :sherlock: :lol:


You like pushing people's buttons? :mad2:

And getting lifted. :bongload:

Opening doors.  :royalrainbow:




:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's [Re: Quoiyaien]
    #7650264 - 11/18/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

Quoiyaien said:
Is it that hard to believe that it could be a strangely shaped aerial vehicle being tested?





If you study the evidence then, yes it is hard to believe that!

If I was going to test a new flying machine then you would test it somewhere it would not be noticed too much - the desert, the sea etc
In fact most new military craft are tested in the desert.

With this knowledge in hand - why are there literally hundreds of recorded incidents in Ufology where the UFOs are detected in no fly zones, near military bases, picked up on commercial airline radar?
There's no reason I can think of that any country would test a new flying machine in such a way. Check out the 'Belgium black triangle mass sighting' for one example...

Quote:

How is it logical to jump...




It is assumed from several unexplainable abduction incidents that the occupants are not human. See pascagoula river incident, Travis Walton, Barney and Betty hill etc etc

It is also assumed that the technology required is too high for humans - radars have for years picked up UFOs performing maneuvers that would require materials and devices (propulsion, inertia cancelers etc) that we seem to be not even close to developing.


If you study all the evidence unbiasedly then it really does seem most likely that these craft are real and not of human origin.

Many famous skeptics started out non-believers but when they actually studied the phenomena as opposed to just watching a couple of TV shows they completely change their opinion (Hynek and Pope, for example). The evidence is vast, it is epic.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7650281 - 11/18/07 08:45 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

There out there. (RNA)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7650312 - 11/18/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Did you know fire is an illusion? It's not tangible, or substantial. It is void, and hollow of substance. Similar to a mirage. Some people see a body of water in the desert, but it is often just a reflection of the sky. And, you can't drink a mirage.

Some people had out of body experiencing, but science explains that that too, was just a play on perception. Like the light in a dream.

So then, what real evidence is there of extraterrestrial visitations, besides recordings, photo's, and eye witness accounts? After all, these are just illusions of light.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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Re: UFO's [Re: psyka]
    #7650318 - 11/18/07 09:07 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Did you know fire is an illusion? It's not tangible, or substantial. It is void, and hollow of substance.

In the same way air is. Remember Katrina?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7650323 - 11/18/07 09:10 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Katrina who?


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: psyka]
    #7650366 - 11/18/07 09:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

She blew me two years ago. :yesnod:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7650372 - 11/18/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

...touche.

I'll go ahead and play the "Got any videos, pictures, and physical evidence?" card.


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


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Re: UFO's [Re: psyka]
    #7650418 - 11/18/07 09:57 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

That logic can be used with everything - how do I know you exist? I can only assume that it appears you do.

Videos and pictures can not change your mind if its already made up?

Start researching it, I suggest watching 'Riddle of the skies' by channel 4. Also watch 'UFO the greatest story ever denied' it can be watched on google video.
Then read some of my old threads on the best abduction cases.

If you look, then the evidence is huge. The best physical evidence is probably radar evidence. There is no solid evidence though or else it would already be accepted as fact. Until we have aliens in a jar to study by the public scientists there will be no mass accepted proof.

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Re: UFO's [Re: psyka]
    #7650451 - 11/18/07 10:09 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)



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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7653385 - 11/19/07 02:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

read some of my old threads on the best abduction cases.

I disassembled, deconstructed, and debunked all your balony abduction cases two years ago here:

https://www.shroomery.org/forums/showflat.php/Number/4702779#Post4702779

You have yet to address the points and questions I raised in that post, but you still insist there are no inconsistencies or outright deceptions in any of those stories.

An open mind would resolve those issues or accept that they seriously undermine the credibility of those stories.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7653400 - 11/19/07 02:25 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Actually I answer all your points and questions; as I do everybody that questions me about this subject.

But the opposition always resorts to either ad hom , calling me a liar or completely disregards my points.

If you want to try debunking again then I'm game! Lets start with the Pascagoula river incident?

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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7653410 - 11/19/07 02:36 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Ego Death,

Chupacabra's are real, too: http://chupacabrablog.org/?cat=3

You should dedicate some of your precious time researching chupacabras.

Theres even a video featuring both a UFO, AND a chupacabra!!: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JN5YPsEelE


--------------------
As the life of a candle,
my wick will burn out.
But, the fire of my mind
shall beam into infinite.


Edited by psyka (11/19/07 02:39 AM)

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Re: UFO's [Re: psyka]
    #7653423 - 11/19/07 02:50 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

My time was dedicated to UFO research because me and 2 other people saw a large silver saucer with stange lights all over it land in a field behind my friends house. We were stood about 40 foot away from it.

I wanted to know what it was - so I've spent years ever since investigating the phenomena. I have concluded that these things are physically real and I also think its likely that they are not man-made.

I'm not partularly interrested in research other phenomena's. I research what I see around me. If I see one of those things then I probably will look into it.

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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7653447 - 11/19/07 03:16 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

But the opposition always resorts to either ad hom , calling me a liar or completely disregards my points.




Always, eh? If I find even one post where this is not true (and there are many), that would make you a _ _ _ _.

Someone trying to understand how you come to your conclusions is 'the opposition'? Persecution complex?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: UFO's [Re: Ego Death]
    #7653450 - 11/19/07 03:18 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

We were stood about 40 foot away from it.




Stood by whom?


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InvisibleGr33nTree73
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7653558 - 11/19/07 05:34 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:

Um, maybe because THOUSANDS of people all over the world claimed to have seen 3 foot tall humanoids in gray suits walk out of them?




Armani with pin stripes. :thumbup:

Um, how about the ten thousand people who claimed the Phoenix Lights were:

1. Directly overhead. (Video analysis showed they were many miles east of the observers.

2. The object was enormous and solid - a mothership! (Nope. Once again analysis showed them to be a cluster of military flares hundreds of yards aparts from each other.

And on and on the misidentification goes. :rolleyes:


The damn flares were an obvious cover up and when you watch the video you cant honestly tell me you believe that those could be flares...


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: UFO's [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #7653815 - 11/19/07 08:15 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

the cynical act/role is raised to political and spiritual veracity -
as if the monkey pack will follow the most charismatic leader
- as if the debunking logic were impeccably charismatic.
as if it even mattered what the monkey pack did.

In this thread I can see some clear expressions related to personal experiences that are being trounced by muscle headed debunking.
I don't see that the people who had unusual experiences are looking for a following.
It is ok to read what they write. it does not poison our minds.

is debunking a preferred kind of bullying that is specially sanctioned? some issues are very clearly not related to "chupacabra" class information. should every comment be treated as if it has chupacabras?

this forum permits critical comment, but it also permits idea expressions.
I would like to read more personal experiences with unusual phenomena, that are not chupacabra class heresay or legends.
I hope the writers of these comments will keep posting and won't feel bullied.


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Re: UFO's [Re: Gr33nTree73]
    #7653904 - 11/19/07 08:55 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

The damn flares were an obvious cover up and when you watch the video you cant honestly tell me you believe that those could be flares...

The lights all vanished directly in-line with the mountain range between Phoenix and the air force base. In the dark against a dark sky, the outline of the mountains could not be seen, so the lights appeared to simply vanish. Superimposing an outline of the mountain range on the videos confirms this: the Phoenix Lights were flares that vanished from sight when they dropped behind the invisible outline of the mountain range. That means the lights were on the far side of the mountain range, over the air force base.

Why is that so hard for UFO Heads to accept? I'll tell you why: because they've invested a lot of time and emotional energy believing UFOs are alien ships, and when people become attached to an idea, often no amount of evidence undermining that idea will change their mind.

See George Bush and the failed war in Iraq for reference.


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4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.

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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: UFO's [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7654395 - 11/19/07 11:56 AM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Quote:

is debunking a preferred kind of bullying that is specially sanctioned?




It appears so.

I've raised my point so many times to you Orogone and Diploid, that I can't even be bothered anymore. Its like banging ones head against a brick wall.

Accept this brick wall jumps around shouting "I debunked you" for years to come afterwards.

You've never debunked me. Lol. I answer any points you raise and then you don't accept them. If thats debunking - then all hail ignorance.

If you have any specific questions then ask me them. Otherwise don't bother going on about how you debunked me years ago when nothing has been proven either way in any of the incidents I bring up.

All I do is present the evidence and with the weight of whats there, it appears clearly likely that theres more to this huge phenomena than just a few delusioned people. If you cannot accept it, then don't. Just try and stay open-minded instead of going round shouting "I debunked you" thats just lame.

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Re: UFO's [Re: Diploid]
    #7654952 - 11/19/07 02:17 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

Taking the time to research an event and explaining it using facts available to anyone who chooses to look is now considered 'bullying' and 10,000 witnesses in error is 'a few'.

Welcome to the land of double-speak.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: UFO's [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7655327 - 11/19/07 03:22 PM (16 years, 7 months ago)

i'm waiting for the next hand to be dealt


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