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Offlinerungi
journeymana

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mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii
    #7644335 - 11/16/07 01:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Photos are below


Edited by rungi (11/16/07 07:51 PM)


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Offlinerungi
journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7644543 - 11/16/07 02:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The photos are king oyster fruiting on one half of an agar plate coved by a black mold. The white mycelium has no pins. The white pins are arising only from the completely covered black fungus. I think this mould is a trigger, yet not at all a neccesity, for king oyster fruiting.



Edited by rungi (11/16/07 07:48 PM)


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7644763 - 11/16/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Upload the picture to your gallery first, then paste the URL into the message.


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Offlinerungi
journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7645250 - 11/16/07 06:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Thanks
url=http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/07-46/526239705-PICT0064.jpg]
url=http://www.shroomery.org/forums/files/07-46/526269217-PICT0066.jpg]


Edited by rungi (11/16/07 06:27 PM)


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7645539 - 11/16/07 07:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Damn those sure are some fascinating pictures. I wish we had a way to ID that black mold.


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Offlinespeedy
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7646698 - 11/17/07 05:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow! Thats great.
Have your thought about keeping the mould for future use/experimentation.
Something immediately came to mind when I saw this.
It'd be interesting to rinse a colonized plate of your mould and put the water into a spray bottle.
Then spray part of the surface of a colonized block of P.eryngii and see if it does the same thing.
Who knows what or where something like that may lead to.


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journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: speedy]
    #7651236 - 11/18/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I may try to place the mould next to the hop buds on the surface of an experimental tray of eryngii. The successive flushes are spreading out further. The first flush with the strain in all bottle and trays have been the best using a cloned stained from the market.
I think the mould is in the aspergillus genus. I dont have a microscope or key. In some species the mould is a source of lytic enyzmes and other fermentation products I have read.


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Offlinebuddhahoodlum
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7651843 - 11/18/07 06:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have heard about a mushroom company over in South Korea that uses a strain of Bacillus to stimulate the growth of King Oysters could this be along the same line?


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Edited by buddhahoodlum (11/22/07 08:34 AM)


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Offlinerungi
journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7663354 - 11/21/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think the strain of bacillus is a korean to english translation error. What does bacillus mean to Korean mushroom farmers? They talk about it in this video. But is seems they are just making liquid culture of Pleurotus eryngii.


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Invisiblelegallyhomeless
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7665429 - 11/22/07 01:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

cool video


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7665661 - 11/22/07 03:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

rungi said:
I think the strain of bacillus is a korean to english translation error. What does bacillus mean to Korean mushroom farmers? They talk about it in this video. Bu





i think "bacillus" was ment to be either "spawn/cultures/clones/liquid cultures"


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: ohmatic]
    #7666188 - 11/22/07 08:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ya that's what I was thinkin it was it just threw me off when they kept talking about it like it was something revolutionary.


--------------------
“I believe that water will one day be employed as fuel, that hydrogen and oxygen which constitute it, used singly or together, will furnish an inexhaustible source of heat and light, of an intensity of which coal is not capable.” – Jules Verne, T

“Ere many generations pass, our machinery will be driven by power obtainable at any point in the universe...it is a mere question of time when men will succeed in attaching their machinery to the very wheel-work of nature."
- Nikola Tesla



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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: buddhahoodlum]
    #7666497 - 11/22/07 10:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Here's a couple of my thoughts:
For how much they spent on automation I cannot believe that they thin the pins by hand. I'd approximate they are thinning six bottles per minute. But the result is amazing, they look like nebrodensis.

Conventional wisdom says that you should present a wide variety of product to the market, they apparently do not. (just eryngii)

They get an average of $1.90/lb based on the following calculation: 8000x365/5.5mil. That is higher than the average price for shiitake in this country.

This woman is right. King Oysters are the next big thing in mushrooms. They will beat out shiitake and browns, they will no longer be specialty(exotic as defined by USDA) mushrooms in ten years. But they will not accomplish this with bottle culture, imho.

Automated bottle culture seems like a dog leg on the way to a better thing if you ask me.


Edited by YidakiMan (11/22/07 10:29 AM)


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OfflineJeremy_Davis
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7666950 - 11/22/07 12:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, their automation is crazy. I've actually priced out those systems, and they seem like good investments, other then the maintenance is a bit specialized, and all that goes along with that. Also you are tied into very specific substrate formulations and also only specific species will grow in the bottles.

They do save a lot on the labor, and the smallest systems put out 1000 lbs a week.

I like your ideas on growing them in beds. Now to just get the strain that covers the beds like buttons.

Also eryngi puts out so many smaller mushrooms, couldn't they be marketed as well?


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InvisibleYidakiMan
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Jeremy_Davis]
    #7667161 - 11/22/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Jeremy_Davis said:
Also eryngi puts out so many smaller mushrooms, couldn't they be marketed as well?




Those baby trumpets would make amazing batter fried mushrooms.


After working at UPS, I'm convinced that human labor is not yet obsolete.


Edited by YidakiMan (11/22/07 02:24 PM)


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journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7842016 - 01/07/08 12:02 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Does anyone have any photos of large trays of eryngii?


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7842636 - 01/07/08 08:32 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

King's can be grown out on columns or even in deep trays. That bottling rig always made me wonder WTH really.

I grow mine in these tiny baby wipe containers and get great personal yields. If I were to go to bins or trays with this species like the size I used with cubensis mushrooms, WOW. Easy as pie too.

[image][/image]


Edited by Hotnuts (01/07/08 09:34 AM)


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Offlinecaricapapaya
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7842970 - 01/07/08 10:31 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Hotnuts,

what are your fruiting conditions? I am wondering if I am just impatient, but I am getting lots of pinning, and not too much that seems to go beyond that.

thanks

carica


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: caricapapaya]
    #7842996 - 01/07/08 10:39 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

55-60 degrees @ 90% relative humidity.


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7843041 - 01/07/08 10:56 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Do you case the trays?


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7843218 - 01/07/08 11:35 AM (16 years, 25 days ago)

No.

Oh Yidakiman, you sell eryngii don't you?


Edited by Hotnuts (01/07/08 11:36 AM)


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7843393 - 01/07/08 12:41 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Been trying to get set up, not quite there yet.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7843436 - 01/07/08 12:57 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

You should look into composting. Compost or horse manure makes excellent and efficient substrate for the cultivation of the Pleurotus genus. Excellent and cheap.


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journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7844740 - 01/07/08 05:41 PM (16 years, 25 days ago)

Hotnuts
What substrate are you using for the mushrooms in the photo.
Have you compared the taste of wood vs. manure substrates
If there as good, it seems that the US commercial agaricus bisporus industry must be oblivious to it among other things. I think Eryngii mushroom are easy to market and sell,than digest shhh. They make the structure known as the word P.ostreatus seem truly inferior in both taste textue and shelf life. If one human compares flavor, texture, and shelf life than they would likely come to the same conclusion. Bugs must be excluded because they use a difficult language to translate which seems to be full of great gibberish

One good reason for the bottles is contamination is easy to isolate. However, if these trays you speak of work well, Well than, I can see no bad nor good reasons to use bottles. Few, will grow cubensis in jars anymore since empirical observations of better methods have become realized and now manifested into a least one cubensis cultivation reality of recycled Peace and positivism


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7847004 - 01/08/08 07:31 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Those are growing from compost. I haven't grown them on wood so I can't compare the tastes. I'd think they'd be the same. I know the compost grown ones taste fantastic.


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7847232 - 01/08/08 09:59 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Did you spawn the compost with grain spawn?
How many flushes did you get from that tray?
Did it contaminate?
Are you still growing eryngii?
Did you make the compost?
Did you cover the compost substrate once inoculated and are there breathing holes anywhere on the plastic container in which you are growing these.
Sorry to ask so many questions unrelated to the thread.


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OfflineHotnuts
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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7847287 - 01/08/08 10:24 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

They were inoculated with wbs spawn. I usually get around 4-6 flushes out of these, which is perfect for us. We do 2 at a time so we have mushrooms to eat in dinners. I don't use any filters in these containers, as they have lids that snap shut on the tops that aren't air tight. So they breath fine. I do make my own compost as well. Pasteurized for 1.5 hours @ 140 degrees. Next plan as far as bulking up with Pleurotus is to use 1 part compost to around 6 parts wheat straw. Maybe more straw. Don't know yet.

Here's Pleurotus ostreatus in the same containers.

[image][/image]

[image][/image]


Edited by Hotnuts (01/08/08 10:26 AM)


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7847339 - 01/08/08 10:44 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

So once you take the lid off, there isn't a plastic covering the substrate? One more question, do you incubate these in a humid environment?


One of the problems I've run into, is that if I wish to use pasteurized trays, I need a 2nd humidified, temperature controlled environment for incubation. Since I don't have a 2nd humidified enclosure it has forced me to use bags, which has forced me to start shopping for a 2nd and third pressure cooker.


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: YidakiMan]
    #7847460 - 01/08/08 11:20 AM (16 years, 24 days ago)

There's the lid that has a small lid on it that opens so you can pull out wipes one at a time. :lol: I can't believe i'm talking about baby wipe containers. Hehehe. I personally would never use these containers on a commercial scale. I'd go much larger. These just work great for a personal scale.

I've never incubated self contained substrates in a humid environment. The containers themselves provide that. When using larger containers like 30qt. or even larger ones like 30-50 gallon ones, I put down sheets  of foil right on top of the substrate to block light and to prevent condensation from getting on the lids and dripping onto the substrate. Just loose fitting to the sides of the bins. Then I put the lids of the bins on loose so CO2 can expel.


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journeymana

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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: Hotnuts]
    #7848291 - 01/08/08 02:36 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

Do you have anymore eryngii photos showing pinning or anything else for that matter? Did you mix or sandwich the grain spawn in the compost?


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Re: mould stimulating fruiting of eryngii [Re: rungi]
    #7849088 - 01/08/08 05:06 PM (16 years, 24 days ago)

No, not really. Nothing you've never seen before anyways.

I do like to layer my spawn in the compost. I layer it in the center. Sandwich style. :smile:


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