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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Registered: 06/01/07
Posts: 7,380
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7648331 - 11/17/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think what we're ALL pissed about, is that we just don't know who did what, and what means what anymore. Most importantly, how can we reconcile what has happened in sports for the past 15 or so years with what history says.

I am most saddened by the fact that Bonds, and Bonds only, was a top 5 all time player (if not top 3) and out of his arrogance and jealously blew himself up into a freak. I'll say it again, McGuire was a BEAST from a LARGE family and steroids by and large did more for him as far as recovery and sustaining the strength the he ALREADY had. Without juice, his numerous injuries probably would have pushed him out of the game, and he would never have had the record.

Although I would argue WITH CRAZY DETERMINATION that he had the ability to hit 60+ without the injuries and that juice didn't really change his body as much as they healed him. Mac went for 49 his rookie year in a very dead ball time, and missed the chance at 50 (HUGE back then) to see his son born. Bonds on the other hand, out of fear of his "legacy" being lost in the muck, destroyed himself and one of the greatest careers of all time. Such is fear. He NEVER could have gone over maybe, MAYBE 45, in his prime. HE KNEW what he was doing, and unlike Mac and many others who push the envelope, he insulted our intelligence (those of us that have any of the issue) with his ridiculous lies, the game itself, and a Federal Grand Jury of all things.

It's a sad thing. Especially for the 25 or so of us who loved Barry and his talent in the face of all the talk about his azzholishness in the 80's and early 90's.

He proved them right the jerk :foreheadslap:


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7648368 - 11/17/07 05:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Now, that was one of the finest paeans to a flawed human and baseball player that I have ever read. Also astonishingly knowledgeable about baseball and 'roids.


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InvisibleMrSinister
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: WhiskeyClone]
    #7648520 - 11/17/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Whattheheck Amen on that brother.:thumbup:



Quote:

WhiskeyClone said:
Quote:

MrSinister said:

I mean fucking baseball is over.:D  Jesus Christ i want to watch football and forget these assholes like A-rod and Bonds till next fucking march.. :lol:




You can do that whenever you want.  Why did you open a thread about Barry Bonds and make posts in it?  If you want to forget it, forget it.  Some people think cheating in professional sports is a big deal, and maybe we want to talk about it.




OK calm down . :smile:

Just like you feel the right to speak about Bonds i feel the right to bitch about the fact this upcoming trail is a joke... But seeing you want to talk about this let me ask you a question,  what do you really  know about Barry Bonds?

Do you know what it feels like to be at that point in your life where you had to decide how to be the best? Can you say if somebody gave you a way to hit the ball further, and to be stronger you wouldn't do the same to get that extra few millions, or prolong your career? Come any of  lie to me and say how you'd never think about doing that, when somebody is waving a allot of money in your face.  You are that close to beating the best record in baseball, after you already crushed the single season record 6 years ago of a man who was using steroids as well. We have alot of straight arrows on this board i must say..:tongue2: 

What is fueling this hatred of the man?  He lied in court? Shit alot of people deserve to be in jail then.. :tongue:

I have heard and read everything from he tarnished baseball, to he let down his fans.  Shit baseball has had a long running history of questionable players, and scandals. So if it is tarnished, it got tarnished years ago.. And his fans are the Bay, where they still are sticking up for him, so his fans seem to still love him.

Nobody knows why Bonds lied( If he did, and they can prove it). And nobody will ever know. The best thing anybody has said about Bonds was simply do you think he wonders? Could i have done it without the juice. Would i have been good enough? Strong enough? Would this Home run title still have my name?

And last.

Quote:

MrSinister said:

I mean fucking baseball is over.:D  Jesus Christ i want to watch football and forget these assholes like A-rod and Bonds till next fucking march.. :lol:





:calledajoke:

But i respect the fact we differ on opinions of this matter, and personally this whole Bonds thing helps me though the fact that the New England area may very well have the Baseball, and Football champions this year.. :rolleyes:


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."


Edited by MrSinister (11/17/07 06:51 PM)


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Registered: 06/01/07
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Loc: Denver Colorado
Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7648732 - 11/17/07 07:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure what you said, I'll have to go look paeans up, but thanks.

I think:grin:

Okay, for sure thanks.:)


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


Edited by whattheheck (11/17/07 07:46 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: MrSinister]
    #7650313 - 11/18/07 09:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MrSinister said:

Just like you feel the right to speak about Bonds i feel the right to bitch about the fact this upcoming trail is a joke... But seeing you want to talk about this let me ask you a question,  what do you really  know about Barry Bonds?




This trial is no joke.  He had total immunity.  All he had to do was tell the truth in what was supposed to be secret proceedings.  (I believe the leaker was disbarred and maybe got some jail time.)  Corrupting the justice system is NOT a joke.
What do I know about Bonds?  He broke two big records.  His body and head size increased massively at around the same time his HR production greatly improved from his previous performance.  His trainer was sent to jail for steroids violations.  Several other people close to Bonds in his training regimen also went to prison, including at least one other athlete associated with them for the same charge Bonds is currently under indictment for.
Quote:



Do you know what it feels like to be at that point in your life where you had to decide how to be the best? Can you say if somebody gave you a way to hit the ball further, and to be stronger you wouldn't do the same to get that extra few millions, or prolong your career? Come any of  lie to me and say how you'd never think about doing that, when somebody is waving a allot of money in your face.  You are that close to beating the best record in baseball, after you already crushed the single season record 6 years ago of a man who was using steroids as well. We have alot of straight arrows on this board i must say..:tongue2:




Bonds is not going to go to jail for that.  Here's the thing that you fail to understand.  The temptation to cheat is great, sure.  There are also repercussions if you get caught.  When you decide to cheat you also sign on for the repercussions should you get caught.  Now, I'm not sure what repercussions would actually have been visited upon him if he was exposed.  Probably NONE outside of public opprobrium, but he couldn't take that.  If he cheated to earn money, he had defrauded the customers because he went outside of the boundaries of his chosen profession, but that is minor.  He committed a much greater sin by lying to the grand jury.
Quote:



What is fueling this hatred of the man?  He lied in court? Shit alot of people deserve to be in jail then.. :tongue:




Yes, they do.  And when he is convicted he will, too.
Quote:



I have heard and read everything from he tarnished baseball, to he let down his fans.  Shit baseball has had a long running history of questionable players, and scandals. So if it is tarnished, it got tarnished years ago.. And his fans are the Bay, where they still are sticking up for him, so his fans seem to still love him.




"Tarnishing baseball" is a bunch of crap.  "Letting down his fans" is a bunch of crap.  What he did do was fuck over fans of every other team and clean player by getting an unfair leg up.  That's who the victims are.  Not some nebulous "Baseball" or his dumbass fans, fucking retards that THEY are.
Quote:



Nobody knows why Bonds lied( If he did, and they can prove it). And nobody will ever know. The best thing anybody has said about Bonds was simply do you think he wonders? Could i have done it without the juice. Would i have been good enough? Strong enough? Would this Home run title still have my name?




I think he's been quite vocal that HE thinks he's OK and that since some others cheated it was alright for him to cheat.  "But Maaaaa, everybody else was doing it."  Well no, Barry my little boy, not everybody was and the fact that some were does NOT give you license.  So fuck off, you will be forever diminished in the public eye and tough shit if you don't like it.  You brought it on yourself.


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7650825 - 11/18/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I want to throw in what I meant when I said Bonds screwed baseball. Pretty much what you said, but I do think there is a certain amount of respect that should be given to anyone's chosen profession, ESPECIALLY if you KNOW children will be emulating you. Police, firefighters, athletes ect.

And more to the point, for Barry to stand out there on the field, soaking in his "glory"  having "broke" a record he NEVER, EVER in a MILLION years could have broke on even HALF (and I mean this) HALF of the juice he did, and take from a man like Henry Aaron who was a pioneer and a truly distinguished man, is just sick.

He has no remorse for the damage that his useless circus has caused almost everybody involved in the game, believes he is entitled to anything and everything he wants, and the rest of us be damned. Some people lie, and some people cheat, most of us at one time or another have lied and cheated. But to lie and cheat and rub it in the faces of pretty much everyone involved??? :thumbdown:

BTW zappis, great point on the immunity issue. I had forgot about that.


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A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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InvisibleMrSinister
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7651062 - 11/18/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well at least you explained your hatred of him, and your ideas about him. I just think there is to many real criminals( See the Gov for this) to be worried about a juice head, and him lying to save his reputation.

So he had immunity huh?  And if he had admitted it, would you have been on the bandwagon to have him stripped of the single season home run recored?  Maybe never play again, never achieve his dream of beating the all time HR recored. Bullshit.  Thats the only thing i don't blame him for. Why should he have to?  If he can beat a drug test, like allot of people do,  why should he have to admit shit. You wanted this man to throw his life away for a fucking witch hunt? Immunity comes with a price trust me.

And let me guess your one who feels he should be stripped of both titles i bet if convicted.. All time would go back to Hank Aaron which i have no problem... But lets talk single season... If Bonds is stripped it goes back to Mark Mcgwire another suspected Steroid monster.. Or maybe since he cheated to get ahead, we can give it to Sammy Solsa who has 68 for a season.  Wait he had that whole cork bat scandal as well, so he is out..  So it goes back to Rodger Marris?  :strokebeard:

  Look i hate to hurt all you guys feelings but he is going to get better lawyers, and there is a good chance he is going to get off this charge.  So again fuck Barry Bonds as a man.. But intill you are faced with what he had to do, i aint going to judge him.


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."


Edited by MrSinister (11/18/07 01:34 PM)


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Offlinezappaisgod
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: MrSinister]
    #7651125 - 11/18/07 01:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MrSinister said:
Well at least you explained your hatred of him, and your ideas about him. I just think there is to many real criminals( See the Gov for this) to be worried about a juice head, and him lying to save his reputation.




Lying to a grand jury is a real crime
Quote:



So he had immunity huh?  And if he had admitted it, would you have been on the bandwagon to have him stripped of the single season home run recored?  Maybe never play again, never achieve his dream of beating the all time HR recored. Bullshit.  Thats the only thing i don't blame him for. Why should he have to?  If he can beat a drug test, like allot of people do,  why should he have to admit shit. Immunity comes with a price trust me.




This paranoid blather is complete nonsense.  Firstly, the GJ proceedings were secret.  For a while until some asshole leaked them.  He got in trouble for that, too.  At any rate, that is moot.  At the time Bonds lied he had no reason to believe that there would be any breach of secrecy in the future.  Secondly, Giambi told the truth, his testimony was leaked.  What happened to him?  NOTHING.  Stop whining about all these biblical plagues that were to be visited on Bonds if he told the truth to the GJ.  They are imaginary.  Immunity does come with a price.  That price was truthful testimony.  By the way, by lying, he makes himself subject to criminal steroid use penalties, should they ever find enough evidence.  Immunity?  Gone.
Quote:

 

And let me guess your one who feels he should be stripped of both titles i bet if convicted.. All time would go back to Hank Aaron which i have no problem... But lets talk single season... If Bonds is stripped it goes back to Mark Mcgwire another suspected Steroid monster.. Or maybe since he cheated to get ahead, we can give it to Sammy Solsa who has 68 for a season.  Wait he had that whole cork bat scandal as well, so he is out..  So it goes back to Rodger Marris?  :strokebeard:




I don't see any way to do any of those things.  Let the record show he cheated, lied, did time (if it comes to that) and everybody can view his accomplishments in that light.  I'll take care of elucidating my position.  You aren't qualified.
Quote:



So you wanted this man to throw his life away for a fucking witch hunt?




What witch hunt?  They were trafficking in illegal drugs.  Bonds wasn't even a target of that investigation (see: immunity).  "Throw his life away"?  This is quite clearly insane.  All he stood to lose was his reputation and that's gone now anyway.  Has this amounted to a tossing of his life?  No, it hasn't.  He's still a big, rich asshole just like he was before.
Quote:



Look i hate to hurt all you guys feelings but he is going to get better lawyers, and there is a good chance he is going to get off this charge.  So again fuck Barry Bonds as a man.. But intill you are faced with what he had to do, i aint going to judge him.




That's a pretty stupid standard for judgment, only those who have been in the same circumstance.  Other people were in his same predicament.  Most of them didn't lie.  Marion Jones did.  She's going inside, too.  So, you would be happy if he pulled an OJ and got off because of his vast wealth?  Perhaps you are happy that wealthy people can buy freedom from justice that other equally deserving (i.e. guilty) individuals cannot?


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InvisibleMrSinister
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: zappaisgod]
    #7651265 - 11/18/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Zap i respect the fact you are willing answering me. Keeps this lively.. As for him getting off, you know and i know that money decides guilt in this country.  It's sad but true. Bonds will not be the first guilty man to walk free because if fame. I am not going to get flustered because he lied to save himself. And again i will clearly state i have no respect for the guy, nor really care about Bonds.

I am just arguing the point we create these assholes by buying the tickets,  sports memorabilia, and clothing. Then get pissed because he wants to find a way to keep his greed going, when its our money as fans who helped him become  the dishonest fuck he is.. Of course he lied. And i know the word immunity, trust me.. And again quote me like you are so found of doing.. Immunity comes with a price.. If you cant understand that, your fault. :tongue2:

You want to stop jerk offs like Bonds? Don't go to the games, and cheer people like him. Find a way to stop paying these guys 100s of millions of dollars, when we could use this money for more productive things like educating our kids.  No, what we do is show these kids unless you are willing to take the steps necessary to be stronger you ain't going to make the majors.. And 90% of them don't..  Baseball, Football, and Basketball use to mean something to people.  Thats why allot of true sports hero's are the ones who played these sports because they loved the game. Not for shoe deals, and million dollar contracts... They went out and gave the fans their best games, because it was a sport, and life to them. Now a days these guys play for 10 years, and live like kings afterwards, and most could give a fuckless about the fans.

But oh says the straight arrows, thats not what i am mad about.. He lied in court..  Lets burn him at the stake, because we don't like him, and we would never be that dishonest to do that same thing.. Immunity man, immunity.. :wink:



In the end i just think we are going to disagree, and i think you'll see this your way, and ill see it mine... :laugh:


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."


Edited by MrSinister (11/18/07 04:57 PM)


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Invisiblewhattheheck
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: MrSinister]
    #7651760 - 11/18/07 05:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I agree with not judging him, and as I said earlier, we're screwed as far as  "history" goes anymore when it comes to sports. Mac did juice, but I think he could have done it without had he stayed healthy (see bottom) but still...

And as far as Sosa goes, he may be THE juice king. Dude was an easy 250+ at about 5'10" when I saw him at Coors in 1998. My friend is a power lifter, goes 245-285 at 5'8" depending on a variety of situations and Sosa looked a LOT bigger then him, not to mention shredded to a freakish degree. Quite the site to be honest.


What a mess. But fortunately, sports don't really matter :tongue2:


--------------------
A society whose whole idea is to eliminate suffering and bring it's members the greatest amount of comfort and pleasure is doomed to be destroyed -Thomas Merton


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InvisibleMrSinister
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: whattheheck]
    #7652089 - 11/18/07 06:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

whattheheck said:
What a mess. But fortunately, sports don't really matter :tongue2:




Yea, who really gives a shit about sports anyways..  :ashamed: :tongue2:


--------------------

"They look like psychos? Is that what they looked like? They were vampires. Psychos do not explode when sunlight hits 'em. I don't give a fuck how crazy they are!"

"Eric Stratton.. Rush chairman.. Damn glad to meet you.."


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OfflineRedstorm
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Re: Barry Bonds lied??? [Re: MrSinister]
    #7652515 - 11/18/07 08:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You can be a jerk-off all day, but when you are dumb enough to lie when you are under oath, you have what's coming to you.


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