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LVL12
Author andPerfector ofFailure


Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 483
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: veda_sticks]
#7642988 - 11/16/07 04:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Salvation Army for a Pressure Cooker, (make sure it has all the pieces, so bring someone along who understands pressure cookers) or just stick with the BRF, nothing wrong with doing BRF forever. Don't buy presterilized jars - think about it, putting potentially contaminated substrate into a sterilized jar does not sterilize the substrate.
-------------------- Disclaimer: Posts from LVL12 are strictly for entertainment and are a work of fiction, nothing written or said by LVL12 should in interpreted as truth, fact or by their literal definitions or translations. Anyone who reads/listens to these words does so at their own risk, parental discretion is advised.
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katfish
Nooblit



Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 592
Loc: Louisiana
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: LVL12]
#7643073 - 11/16/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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the jars come with substrate already in them. a good substrate as well I might add.
Katfish
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Cannabischarlie
Resident badass


Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 14,494
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: katfish]
#7647506 - 11/17/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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if he cant afford the pressure cooker he probably cant afford jars. Like i said, you can do 4 pftek jars in a 4 quart, but up the time if its not 15 psi. just 20 bucks at walmart if you can find it.and i must reiterate, you should steam, let cool, steam again, at least 3 times to avoid the endospores that plague this hobby, but just buckle down and get a cheapy pressure cooker, its worth the money in the short run. ebay ebay ebay!
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we could all use a little more sunshine.
yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#7647625 - 11/17/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Basically.
If you are making PF Tek jars you don't need a pressure cooker, just a big pan, like the ones you cook pasta in, and it's lid. Also, if money is tight look for used jars, but remember they have to be wide lipped, that is, wider at the top than the bottom without a neck, or you won't be able to get the cake out.
If you want to use grains, there are systems out there to sterilize without a pressure cooker (tyndalisation A.K.A. Fractional sterilisation) but they aren't really worth it as they have a high failure rate.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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LVL12
Author andPerfector ofFailure


Registered: 04/09/07
Posts: 483
Last seen: 1 year, 4 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#7649072 - 11/17/07 09:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cannabischarlie said: it.and i must reiterate, you should steam, let cool, steam again, at least 3 times to avoid the endospores that plague this hobby,
this only works some of the time though, its better than nothing, but i would say worse than just using the pftek *brown rice flour, vermiculite, and steam*
-------------------- Disclaimer: Posts from LVL12 are strictly for entertainment and are a work of fiction, nothing written or said by LVL12 should in interpreted as truth, fact or by their literal definitions or translations. Anyone who reads/listens to these words does so at their own risk, parental discretion is advised.
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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: LVL12]
#7649888 - 11/18/07 01:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Before I got my PC I used a 32 quart steamer, didn't like that very much. But if you don't have the cash to pick up supplies, chill at your friend's houses and scope it out, never tell them what the stuff is for unless you know they are cool, but never be afraid to ask, all they can say is no. But I accepted many donations to the cause. Just keep your eyes open..:) I have recieved many items this way. Jars, WBS, PC, and not to mention my dual tub incubator Good Luck and Happy Shrooming
Lonnie Edwin
-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
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greystealth
Corrupt Cop

Registered: 11/09/07
Posts: 985
Last seen: 13 years, 4 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: im_on_a_boat]
#7649914 - 11/18/07 02:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
drkrobotnik said: steam in a huge pot make sure you put lids or something on the bottom and dont let the water touch the jars. wait til it starts boiling then cut the heat down a littie bit.. i did it for about an hour but it should probably be longer.
wait til the jars are cool to the touch before you inoc.
i did this the first time and it worked fine.. no contams.. i might just be lucky though. good luck.
why is it so important for the water not to touch the jars? The water is touching a little on my jars, but I don't see that as a worry.
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#7649997 - 11/18/07 03:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cannabischarlie said: .and i must reiterate, you should steam, let cool, steam again, at least 3 times to avoid the endospores that plague this hobby,
Not really true. You are describing tyndallisation in a totally wrong way.
From this site.
http://www.shroomery.org/5248/What-is-fractional-sterilization-or-tyndallization
Quote:
Fractional sterilization or tyndallization is a method used to destroy bacteria and endospores in preparation of grain spawn(rye, wheat, millet, birdseed...) and agar, which requires no pressure cooker. In this case, the jars fitted with a filter disc or a polyfill lid filter are boiled or steamed at 212°F (100°C) for 30 min in a pot with lid, three days in a row. Between the boiling steps the jars are kept warm, around 30°C(but room temperature will work too), to allow the remaining endospores to germinate. The basic principle behind this method is that any resistant endospores will germinate after the first heating and therefore be susceptible to killing during the second and third heating.
Timetable of the tyndallization (=fractional sterilisation) process
1) Steam heating to 100 °C for 30 min Vegetative cells are destroyed but endospores survive
2) Incubate at 30°C-37°C overnight Most bacterial endospores germinate
3) Second heat treatment, 100 °C, 30 min Germinated endospores are killed.
4) Second incubation at 30°C-37 °C overnight Remaining endospores germinate
5) Third heat treatment, 100 °C, 60 min Last remaining germinated endospores are killed
As you see it isn't just "let cool", jars have to be incubated etc. Also, while it is quite effective it is not as effective as using a pressure cooker. And it is totally innecessar if you are using brown rice flour as rice does not require PCing thanks to its low bacterial endospore count.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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veda_sticks
Cultivator




Registered: 07/29/07
Posts: 14,191
Loc: UK
Last seen: 4 years, 25 days
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: katfish]
#7650132 - 11/18/07 06:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
katfish said:
Quote:
drkrobotnik said: not to knock the vendors, but the pre-sterilized jars are a fckin rip off.. at least most of them i see.. like 70 bucks plus shipping for 12 jars..
you can get it so much cheaper if you do it yourself. just steam it in a big pot until you can find a real PC that's exactly what i'm doin.
whatever ya do, if you're tryin to save money, don't buy pre-sterilized.
good luck still.
check ebay! I get jars like 12 for $25.00 plus shipping. You might be seeing my jars there soon, I just got a PC today for $20.00! Now i'm off to make 40 jars for myself and then....
KaT
where abouts on ebay, what are you searching for i can seem to find them.
I could really do with buying some jars!!
-------------------- PF TEK - writeup by EvilMushroom666 Lets Grow Mushrooms - RogerRabbit & RoadKills website with sample videos plus the full PF TEK video series. Alot of great information - BUY THE DVD Cakes can and will pin! - So you think cakes suck for pins. Your wrong Franks Simple Coir/Verm Tek Franks Proper Pasturisation Tek Franks Spawning To Bulk - Monotub Professor Pinheads RTV Injection Port Tek Foo Mans No Soak WBS Prep Tek
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JewelessCaesar
Shroomery's Legal Department




Registered: 05/26/06
Posts: 599
Loc: Petros-Joyner, TN, USA
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: veda_sticks]
#7653100 - 11/18/07 11:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've seen them on there..just look up myco jar or mushroom jar/substrate be creative and you'll find them..:)
-------------------- Failure is not an option, it's an adventure! - JewelessCaesar
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polishfarmer
Stranger


Registered: 03/04/07
Posts: 143
Last seen: 1 year, 1 month
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: katfish]
#7653235 - 11/19/07 12:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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i boiled 12 jars in a big blue chili mexican pot from walmart... just threw the jars in there stacked them on top of each other and put about 1-2 inches of water and a lid... boiled for about 2-3 hrs... u might have to add water cuz of evaporation. but all 12 jars were fine and no contams on any of the jars
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Nasrudin
Stranger
Registered: 07/23/07
Posts: 206
Last seen: 2 years, 7 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Nibin]
#7653403 - 11/19/07 02:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nibin said: they aren't really worth it as they have a high failure rate
Quote:
Nibin said: while it is quite effective
So, which is it?
I had planned on trying this, as I don't have a pressure cooker either, but you've sowed the seeds of doubt in my mind. Perhaps I'll consult the almighty search engine and see if anyone has experience with fractional sterilization...
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Nasrudin]
#7653457 - 11/19/07 03:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Nasrudin said:
Quote:
Nibin said: they aren't really worth it as they have a high failure rate
Quote:
Nibin said: while it is quite effective
So, which is it?
I had planned on trying this, as I don't have a pressure cooker either, but you've sowed the seeds of doubt in my mind. Perhaps I'll consult the almighty search engine and see if anyone has experience with fractional sterilization...
Lol, yes, I have been a bit confusing.
it works most of the time if done properly BUT it is very easy to do it wrong and then it won't work at all. And a lot of people who are impatient and try and take shortcuts fail miserably.
As the process requires incubation at a set temperature, if you don't get the jars in the right temperature range, or the centre doesn't warm up, then the endospores wont germinate and you wont be able to kill them all off.
Also, remember that if you are using pf cakes there is no need to do this, just a standard boil is required
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Nibin]
#7653459 - 11/19/07 03:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Also, for the cost of whatever you need to keep the jars at 30-37 ºC you might as well buy a PC.
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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boingkster
CuriousCultivator


Registered: 09/28/07
Posts: 109
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Nibin]
#7653545 - 11/19/07 05:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I've been watching this one with interest. Pressure cookers seem to be out of fashion here, and I can't get my finicky hands on one.
Luckily, I'm planning on using whole brown rice ala the 9er Tek, so looks like I'll just be doing a good old 90 minute boil!
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
-------------------- A Question Never Asked is an Answer Never Given [Having said that, use the Search button! Teks too!]
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Cannabischarlie
Resident badass


Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 14,494
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: boingkster]
#7663557 - 11/21/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The endo spore thing, i explained it exactly that way. and incubate my ass! the jars will eventually cool to that temperature (the one needed for germinaton of the spores) at some point. stop trying to sound smart just for the sake of it.
I tried to buy a pressure cooker at a place that had EVERYTHING. (great indoors) then I complained to the manager because they had five smoothy machines and not one pressure cooker. not one. I think some other lady at another place (or maybe the same) gave me some dumb answer saying "they are out of style because people like to taste their food" i just kind of looked at her dumb ass and said "what does that have to do with anything? im sure if you had them people would buy them, they make potatoes in 10 minutes." I would be real surprised if she even knew what one was. btw its a useful appliance anyway. williams sonoma had ONE, 200 dollars, i cant beleive the lady didnt mention that RIGHT OFF THE BAT.
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we could all use a little more sunshine.
yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
Posts: 4,480
Last seen: 10 years, 8 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Cannabischarlie]
#7663582 - 11/21/07 03:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The jars will NOT cool to 30-37 ºC unless you live in a sauna. they will cool to a much lower temp.
Housing with central heating is set at 21-24ºC and you need them warmer than that, closer to body temperature (37ºC) for the endospores to germinate overnight
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
Edited by Nibin (11/21/07 03:51 PM)
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Cannabischarlie
Resident badass


Registered: 11/28/05
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: Nibin]
#7669833 - 11/23/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Overnight? I would think they don't take THAT long to germinate. I could be wrong though, I dont know about you, but I would simmer for a few hours at that temp, if I where going this route, then boost the heat, then drop back to room temperature. but this is all so tedious, finding a pressure cooker that will work is simply the route to go, and any pressure cooker is better than none, they are available!
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we could all use a little more sunshine.
yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
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katfish
Nooblit



Registered: 07/22/06
Posts: 592
Loc: Louisiana
Last seen: 15 years, 11 months
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: veda_sticks]
#7676465 - 11/24/07 11:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
where abouts on ebay, what are you searching for i can seem to find them.
I could really do with buying some jars!!
just search for mushroom grow on the search engine of ebay, they will come right up in the home/garden section
kF
-------------------- 08/2/07 Inoculated mycobag with Brazilian, 3cc 08/08/07 First mycelium show 09/03/07 Brazilian still colonizing, Three Mycobags inoculated with Koi Somui 10/11/07 2 Pint PESA 100% colonized. 1 pint Amazon 90% colonized 10/12/07 Storage bin perite FC constructed 10/28/07 Havested my First ever flush, of PESA!
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Cannabischarlie
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Registered: 11/28/05
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Re: Can't get a steamer or pressure cooker... [Re: katfish]
#7694439 - 11/29/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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one good thing as far as jars go, they are made the same way you would do them yourselves, so you have the jars left over for when you want to try doing it yourself. plus they are a little more stable in that you can learn the rest of the process an get back to sterilization later. I have never used them myself but I understand they are very beginner friendly.
-------------------- This section of the signature line has been intentionally left blank.
we could all use a little more sunshine.
yeah, she's funny and somewhat interesting. not a beauty queen, but not bad lookin. i'd feel quite honored to fuck janine garofalo. -tiny_rabid_birds
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