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OfflineBrAiN
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what did we use as currency...
    #7638598 - 11/15/07 08:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

before the federal reserve?

Did we have U.S. dollars back then? Was the gov't only allowed to print currency if they destroyed old currency first?


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7638651 - 11/15/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. Back then each dollar was backed with real gold in a vault somewhere.

Take a look:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_certificate


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Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Diploid]
    #7638789 - 11/15/07 09:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, the bygone days of honest money.

They will be returning soon when the dollar makes its final swirl down the bowl..


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: zorbman]
    #7638963 - 11/15/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Or when Ron paul becomes president

Ever since he's been running I've been reading up a lot more on the reserve system.

Part of me actually wants to go back to school to get an MBA. Kinda expensive though... U of MD's part time MBA program still would cost like 5-8 grand a semester


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7638965 - 11/15/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Do most countries have gold to back up all their currency? Or do they also run on reserve systems ?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7638975 - 11/15/07 10:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Do most countries have gold to back up all their currency? Or do they also run on reserve systems ?



Federal reserve is the norm. IIRC, back when we had the gold standard, there was a depression about every 13 years.


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OfflineMojo_Risin
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Silversoul]
    #7638995 - 11/15/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What do you think was the cause of those depressions?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Mojo_Risin]
    #7639008 - 11/15/07 10:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was reading about the history of the federal reserve... there were two attempts at nationalized banking systems like that before... apparently when they stopped giving loans they were panics ever 15 years or so... at least according to wiki. Maybe that's what silversoul is talking about.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_reserve

"Later, a series of retractions of loans and refusal to renew old ones[citation needed] created bank "panics" in 1873, 1893, and 1907. This provided the backdrop for the renewed calls for the creation of a centralized banking system,[1] although the notion of a central bank was unpopular with the people due to fears of giving a central authority power over the monetary system"

Is it possible to have a federal reserve and to be on the gold standard at the same time? I guess I'm not totally sure what it means to be on the "gold standard"? Does it mean that every dollar is backed by gold?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Mojo_Risin]
    #7639021 - 11/15/07 10:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Possibly the fact that the logic behind the gold standard followed the flawed economic theory known as Say's Law, which John Maynard Keynes later debunked.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7639036 - 11/15/07 10:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
Is it possible to have a federal reserve and to be on the gold standard at the same time? I guess I'm not totally sure what it means to be on the "gold standard"? Does it mean that every dollar is backed by gold?



I think what we need is a modified federal reserve system which is not debt-based. There have several alternative models proposed, which I may look up later.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Silversoul]
    #7639053 - 11/15/07 10:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Who/what are the entities that the federal reserve system actually loans money directly to?

I always hear about them lowering or raising interest rates. I as a homeowner get my laon through BOFA or Suntrust (who probably own stock in the reserve)... but I'm assuming there are tons of middlemen who they actually get their own money through who eventually (down the line) get it fron the reserve.

So when the reserve loans money out.. who are the ones that get it directly?


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7639397 - 11/15/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Who/what are the entities that the federal reserve system actually loans money directly to?

Banks.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Seuss]
    #7639437 - 11/15/07 11:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So the feds loan money to banks like BOFA, Suntrust, wamu, etc and then they loan the money to consumers?

Seems too simple to me... In this massive beaurocracy was call the united states you'd think there'd be more middle men.

Anywho... just curious... I'm just trying to learn.

I'm still staring at these formulas trying to figure out how fraction reserve banking CREATES money.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7639577 - 11/15/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm certainly not the one to be teaching on this subject. Macro economics was a long time ago. Economist posted some references a while back that were pretty good reads on this subject.

Here is what wiki says:

The Federal Reserve System tries to control the size of the money supply by conducting open market operations, in which the Federal Reserve lends or purchases specific types of securities with authorized participants, known as primary dealers, such as the United States Treasury. All open market operations in the United States are conducted by the Open Market Desk at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, with an aim to making the federal funds rate as close to the target rate as possible.[citation needed] For a detailed look at the process by which changes to a reserve account held at the Fed affect the wider monetary supply of the economy, see money creation. See also Seignorage.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Federal_Reserve


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Edited by Seuss (11/15/07 12:37 PM)


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: Seuss]
    #7639654 - 11/15/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

whatever happened to economist?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: johnm214]
    #7639996 - 11/15/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm just assuming to be 'taken off the gold standard' means you don't neccessarily feel the need to back up ever dollar with gold and that your government decides to use the "reputation of its own country's economic stability" as what to base the dollar on.


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7640152 - 11/15/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That is basically it. One bad side effect of that is the government has no constraint on its money supply - there is no inherent fiscal discipline since it can issue as many dollars as it likes unbacked by anything expect faith. Right now it seems the dollar is backed by our military.

Our monetary system has the appearance of a gigantic con job when you think about it. The dollar is the world's reserve currency which affords us incredible advantages. Unfortunately, there is also a dark side since this system works only as long as all those dollars are "soaked up" by foreign governments.

If for some reason they lose faith in the dollar and begin dumping it, guess what? All those dollars that were being soaked up will crash back into the U.S. in wave after wave in the form of massive inflation. Hyperinflation even.

Some think that process has already begun and I have to agree.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: zorbman]
    #7640180 - 11/15/07 02:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Time to start sucking up GOLD or EUROS then eh?

Maybe that's why so many rich politicians are gung ho for going into war with other countries as the drop of a hat. It reinforces our currency by showing we're either the dominant ape that will be around forever or forcing capitalism on some people to extend the life of the dollar. No matter how anti-war a democrat tries to be, they never give a straight answer about avoiding war because in the back of their mind their subcincious is telling them "you're rich! comprimise your values! It's in YOUR best interest"


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7640214 - 11/15/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Time to start sucking up GOLD or EUROS then eh?




Actually, I anticipate the euro following the dollar into oblivion. The dollar will just have a good headstart is all.


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“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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InvisibleAnnapurna1
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Re: what did we use as currency... [Re: BrAiN]
    #7640246 - 11/15/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BrAiN said:
I'm just assuming to be 'taken off the gold standard' means you don't neccessarily feel the need to back up ever dollar with gold and that your government decides to use the "reputation of its own country's economic stability" as what to base the dollar on.




what that means is that the dollar is funded by the total available goods under US ownership..along with foreign-owned mineral rights subject to immediate US seizure by military force...needless to say..this is only possible under a continuous upward redistribution of wealth enforced by a brutal police state...


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