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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction)
#7636226 - 11/14/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The Cave Painting: A Parable of Science Roddy M. Bullock
Access Research Network; Softcover - 450 pages, 2006 Item# B113 Suggested Donation: $16.00 (includes USPS Media Mail shipping to addresses in US only) $26.00 (includes international air shipping to all foreign addresses)
ISBN: 1931796270
Four hundred fifty pages of serious fun, The Cave Painting is an allegorical novel exploring the Design versus Naturalism debate in a fictional story format. The novel, together with comprehensive end notes which tie the allegorical arguments to real facts and arguments, highlights the key shortcomings of current Darwinian theories in explaining the origin of specified complex things, whether they be cave paintings, or, by analogy, human beings. This parable pits a bright young student against the academic establishment that tries to convince her and fellow students that a recently discovered local cave painting can be explained by purely naturalistic processes. She's not buying it, and you are likely to stay up all night to find out how the parable ends.
Seems ID has no teeth so MUST be presented as fiction and allegory.
Let's see: hundreds of thousands of peer-reviewed works on Evolution.
How many on Intelligent Design? ZERO.
Case closed - at least it should be.
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Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/14/07 05:29 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636239 - 11/14/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Anything to make a buck.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636275 - 11/14/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Let's see: hundreds of thousands of peer-reviwed works on Evolution.
How many on Intelligent Design? ZERO.
I used this same argument with some Global Warming skeptics on this board, and was informed that these peer-reviewed journals are owned by special interests, or something to that effect. So either the global warming skeptics are full of shit(entirely possible) or peer-reviewed journals are not as objective a measure of scientific credibility as they are supposed to be.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: Silversoul]
#7636288 - 11/14/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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peer-reviewed journals are not as objective a measure of scientific credibility as they are supposed to be.
Almost nothing is as good as it is supposed to be.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636302 - 11/14/07 05:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Huh? Cave paintings can be explained by the fact that people like to paint, and have done so for a damn long time. Naturalistic forces? Wha?
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: Silversoul]
#7636336 - 11/14/07 05:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Global warming is trickier than other science no matter which side of the fence you are on due to the fact that the earth regulary (in geologic time) warms and cools with or without man's input. Also the same data can lead to different conclusions.
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636351 - 11/14/07 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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True, but the incredible majority of scientists agree that some sort of climate change is happening, and those that deny it are not only incredibly few, but usually in the employ of an oil company...
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NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'



Registered: 09/01/02
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636361 - 11/14/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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You know, it's reassuring that any schmuck can right a book and make money, because that way I don't have to worry so much about whether anyone will want to buy the book(s) I will inevitably write! If someone can spew a pile of utter shit and get published then I can write something reasonably ok and do well for myself.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7636402 - 11/14/07 05:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Sorry, wrong again. The likelihood of the public (in mass) buying a book that makes sense is very low. I suggest cocktail waitressing.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: NiamhNyx]
#7636524 - 11/14/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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True, but the incredible majority of scientists agree that some sort of climate change is happening
I don't think any climate scientists deny that the Earth is warming. What some deny is that humans are the primary cause.
Points of fact:
1. The Earth has been a lot warmer in the past then it is now.
2. The carbon dioxide concentrations in the Earth atmosphere in the past has been a lot higher than it is now.
Both of those facts occurred many times cyclically before human industry existed.
Given that, it is entirely plausible that the Earth is warming itself and we're just along for the ride (or minimally contributing).
Despite the media hysteria, the jury is still out on global warming.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7636535 - 11/14/07 06:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said: Global warming is trickier than other science no matter which side of the fence you are on due to the fact that the earth regulary (in geologic time) warms and cools with or without man's input. Also the same data can lead to different conclusions.
And yet this divisiveness is not reflected in the scientific journals, which overwhelmingly support the anthropogenic hypothesis. This leads me to believe that either: (a) the scientists who review these journals have a biased worldview which they will defend against any opposing ideas, (b) the case against global warming is rather weak and does not hold up to science, or (c) all of the above.
My best guess is c.
I realize this thread is intended to be about intelligent design, not global warming, so I'll try and bring this back on topic. My assessment here of the global warming case is about the same as my assessment of the intelligent design debate. On the one hand, I don't believe there is scientific evidence for intelligent design(it seems to me that it belongs in philosophy, not science). On the other hand, I think scientists can be just as dogmatic and set in their ways as anyone else. New ideas in science are almost always met with harsh resistance. I forget who it was who said that new models in science are eventually accepted not because people change their mind about them, but because the old scientists eventually die.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: The Cave Painting - A Parable of Science (An ID fiction) [Re: Silversoul]
#7636678 - 11/14/07 06:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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New ideas in science are almost always met with harsh resistance.
Let's be clear on something, though.
Many laypeople present new cockamamie ideas that are totally contrary to established ideas, and they meet with resistance not because their ideas are contrary, but because they are LAYPEOPLE.
Name one example of a successful, paradigm-changing scientist who wasn't a practiced expert on the OLD paradigm first. Copernicus? Newton? Harvey? Kepler? Einstein? Maxwell? Watson & Crick? Boltzmann? Mendeleev? Planck? Feynman? Gell-Mann? Hubble? Lyell? Agassiz? Darwin?
Deliberately ignoring your predecessors might be a good strategy in entrepreneurship, but it's emphatically not in science. And THAT'S why every crackpot who reads Popular Mechanics and insists he's invented perpetual motion is ridiculed and ignored.
The day a Ph.D physicist says he's invented a perpetual motion machine, I promise you everyone will sit up and pay attention.
I forget who it was who said that new models in science are eventually accepted not because people change their mind about them, but because the old scientists eventually die.
A more accurate statement is that new models in science are eventually accepted when sufficient evidence is found.
On the other hand, I think scientists can be just as dogmatic and set in their ways as anyone else.
Well, that can be true enough. Scientists are humans too, after all.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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