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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Casings & wetting agents
    #763526 - 07/21/02 12:00 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Has anybody tried using a nontoxic surficant (wetting agent) in combination with coir & peat moss as casing? Scotts lawn & garden products under the brand name MiricleGrow has a potting soil product called AquaCoir. Sadly, it contains fertilizers & nutients. But, the forumulation of coir, peat moss & a wetting agent is said to hold 33% more water & release it very very slowly. Sounds interesting.

SixTango ( always wondering about something)


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineDinoMyc
Ipsa scientiapotestas est
Registered: 11/14/99
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #763566 - 07/21/02 12:34 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I think you mean surfactant..
The major water holding properties come from the coir itself, as it has superior water retention capabilities.
I use the aquacoir soil, and I am satisfied with its performance as a plant soil for tropicals..
the wetting agent is only helpful from the dry state, when the cohesive nature of water prevents the coir from absorbing it.. if you mist before watering you plants, or just water before the soil is dry, its pirfect... no need for wetting..
enjoy your day


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #764135 - 07/21/02 10:17 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Dino,

Yup, that's what the Racoon meant --> SURFICANT. But, still confused. Will the AquaCoir product work as a casing material?

SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #764254 - 07/21/02 11:31 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Yes, it should work fine.
There is little difference, though, between aquacoir and a coir/peat mix you would make yourself for less money..
Also be careful if it has added fertilizers, I do not remember if aquacoir had any..



--------------------
If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


Edited by DinoMyc (07/22/02 07:00 AM)


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #764325 - 07/21/02 12:09 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Dino,

Yes -- AquaCoir does have some time release fertilizer mix in. So, that's a no/go.

The Raccoons time is an issue. Some peaple pay high dollar for the Coon's time. So, the time left for hobby culivation is limited. Yup, just Coir/Peat & adjusting the PH works fine & is less costly if home made. The Raccoon was just looking for a "perfect" ready/made store bought casing material, to save time, not $$$.

Thanx for the advice. SixTango


--------------------
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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #764698 - 07/21/02 03:22 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

I dig, I dig
What about mixing up some coir/peat/etc in bulk and storing that? would that save enough time? rehydrate it when ready to use..


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #765403 - 07/21/02 07:17 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Dino,

Sounds like the plan..................

SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #766380 - 07/22/02 04:42 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

I think you mean surfactant..



lol
kinda funny to see you correct him
when you turn around and say
In reply to:

added fertalizers



it's fertilizer.


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Admin @ mycotopia.net
Mycotopia


Edited by Hippie3 (07/22/02 04:45 AM)


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InvisibleDreaMaTrix
Shaman I am

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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: Hippie3]
    #766391 - 07/22/02 04:49 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

In reply to:

it's fertilizer.




Funny, I thought it was fertiliser

Good luck



--------------------





"We are the one's we have been waiting for" - Hopi saying


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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: Hippie3]
    #766537 - 07/22/02 06:58 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

There is no such thing as a ?surficant?, its a common mistake, and in this case not a typo.
There is such thing as a surfactant, it's an agent which reduces or eliminates surface tension. Surfactant is also known as a surface active agent.
:P
Yes, I misspelled fertilizer. I never claimed to be perfect.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #766785 - 07/22/02 09:08 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

LOL, So long as the message gets across. No big deal. Lets talk cultivation, not squander valuable time with correcting each others spelling & what not.

Diatomite (A minute micron size natural (inert silica product used as a filtration material for vegatable oils, beer, wine & other things that can be found at swimming pool supply places in 25 pound bags for around $20 bucks) is an excellent product to retain & release moisture.

It can't hurt anything, has little bulk, mix's right in any substrate, holds it weight in water & releases it very slowly.

Do a web seach about Diatoms and/or Diatomite to learn more.

SixTango


--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineSuntzu
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #769491 - 07/23/02 05:47 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

They could be using other things these days, but most 'wetting agents' I've seen used in commercial potting mixes is actually polyacrylamide; The individual acrylamide monomers which make up polyacrylamide are extremely toxic/carcinogenic.

I've wondered whether fungi tend to break up the polyacrylamide [as they tend to do].

It's not likely they've done the research on anything other than plants


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: Suntzu]
    #769593 - 07/23/02 06:44 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Yup, your right. Searching reveals its a nasty chemical.

Right now the Coon is using a 33% peat, 33% Coir & 33% verm, pasturizing, then adjusting the PH with Calcuim Carbonate (chalk - limestone powder) to a 6.8 to 7.2 range. Then without any real measuring, mixing in water saturated sterilized Diatomite to the degree of adding about 5 or 6 % Diatomite to the total casing mixture by weight, not volume.

Them little water logged diatoms act as microm size reservoirs that benifit all aspects of the casing, cuts down on misting & appears to increase yeilds to the degree the addition of Diatomite is well -- worthwhile .

SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #770550 - 07/23/02 02:05 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Where did you get your diatomite?
I have some diatomaceous earth I use for filtering particles out of water, but I have never heard of it being used as a water reservoir.
A quick search found it used primarily as a filter, but there was one paper on its ability to hold water..
How does it compare to the usual 'water crystals'?


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #771342 - 07/23/02 07:42 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

In the Pacific NW - USA .........Apollo Pool Supply has it in big bags. It works great. Better than any other inorganic -- inert substance I have found. SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinegamemaster
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: SixTango]
    #778648 - 07/26/02 04:21 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

just wondering why the fertilizer in the aquacoir would be so detrimental to the health of the mycelium and fruit of the booms. Fertilizer is used on the fruit and plants that we eat that are not organic as well. these plants absorb the same chemicals as the booms would potentially. so how would could they be so harmful as a casing? It would be different if the spawn and substrate was emersed and covered in it. Any comments?? I have used it: it works extremely well as casing providing beautiful pins. no adverse effects when consumed.


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Anonymous

Re: Casings & wetting agents *DELETED* [Re: gamemaster]
    #779604 - 07/27/02 07:11 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by 905


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Offlinedelysid_1
journeyman
Registered: 01/17/02
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: ]
    #779815 - 07/27/02 10:02 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Aqua coir works very very well. It does not matter that there is time released fertilizer in it. I would like to see any objective evidense that miracle grow is sequestered in the mushroom. Talk is cheap lets see some references. I have used aqua coir many times and it is the best casing material I have tried as of yet. You guys eat fruit and vegetables from the grocery store that have been literally sprayed and covered in toxic pestacides, but you think that it is bad to grow mushrooms on a substrate that has small amounts of fertilizer mixd in? Come on seriously.


--------------------
"Catholic church molestation scandel- the lord works in mysterius ways indeed........"

-delysid_1


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Anonymous

Re: Casings & wetting agents *DELETED* [Re: delysid_1]
    #779839 - 07/27/02 10:15 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Post deleted by 905


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Offlinegamemaster
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: ]
    #780803 - 07/27/02 07:50 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

agreed with dude on aquacoir! like i said in prior post...the shit is perfect. i add a little lime to make sure its at right ph and bada bing, bada shroom! ya have perfect casing. the mycelium races through it and makes lovely children for all to enjoy....buy buy buy aquacoir for your easy already mixed casing mix!!!!

peace


--------------------
doors of perception...look for your cleansing


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: gamemaster]
    #781167 - 07/27/02 11:18 PM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Diatomite:

I might add that Diatomite (DE) has other nifty uses, besides a moisture retension agent.

Individual particles of DE are micron size. They are inert & also hollow & that is why they soak up & retain moisture & release it very slowly.

When you soak any grain or bird seed, or pasturize straw, dung or a combo, save some of the water (like a pint).

Throw a handfull of DE in a bowl, add some of that nutient water. Enough that the DE soaks it up. Then mix that DE into your grain or bird seed & load the seed or grain to your jars pre/PC. Then PC as usual.

What you are doing is adding several million more innoc points. Because, the Myc from whatever you innoc the jars with will invade & colonize the DE & grain or seed.

Stands to reason, when you add that spawn to any bulk substrate, your adding several million more innoc point particles because of the DE in the grain or seed.

SixTango





--------------------
~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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InvisibleHippie3
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: gamemaster]
    #781364 - 07/28/02 04:50 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

aquacoir ?
i have coir, what is aquacoir and where can i get some ?


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OfflineDinoMyc
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: Hippie3]
    #781497 - 07/28/02 08:02 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Aquacoir is a brand name of coir based potting soil (by scotts I think).
I do not have any left, otherwise I would tell you what else exactly is in it.
You are probably better off with just your coir and verm/peat or whatever you chose to add to it.


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If I made affront, I apologize.
If I made affirmation, I apologize.
I merely came to listen, came to say.


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InvisibleSixTango
Mycota

Registered: 01/21/02
Posts: 1,996
Loc: A little North of Paradis...
Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: Hippie3]
    #781649 - 07/28/02 10:09 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Hip,

You can get it at Lowes, if they are in your area. It has a rather nasty chemical wetting agent in it . So, the Raccoon chose not to try it as a casing material. To each his own. SixTango


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~whiskey river rafting, hot tubbing, dirty dancing & spending money on - wild women - having fun & just gonna waste the rest~


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Offlinegamemaster
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: DinoMyc]
    #781667 - 07/28/02 10:24 AM (19 years, 3 months ago)

Aquacoir revolution:

Brand: Miracle-Grow
product: Aquacoir

ingredients: soilless blend formulated from 50-60% sphagnum peat moss, coconut husk fibers (coir pith), composted bark fines, perlite, and a wetting agent.

fertilizer is added but!!!!!!!!!! all the feritlizer is, is a combination of nitrogen, phosphate and soluble potash. each of which most use commonly through adding cotton seed meal or any other various phosphate or nitrogen source to casing or compost etc.

nitrogen and phosphate are found in all edible plants and fungi etc.

Aquacoir is perfect for apartment dwellers or those who dont want to mess with having to mix their own casing. all you need is h2o, a way to pasturize(microwave, oven, stove), and a little buffer for insurance...been known to use fine grained or powdered lime...insures equal ph throughout casing.

Aquacoir needs to be brought to light...it really is great stuff..never have i seen my friends mycelium run through casing as fast or have i ever seen better pin sets. it has perfect spacing in mix for wonderful pins to form and feed from the moisture.

shit, you might think i work for the damn company! i just want to pass down the ease and gift of Aquacoir the Great!

peace


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Offlinehyper_dermic
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: gamemaster]
    #787487 - 07/31/02 03:57 AM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Hrmmm so we have a few votes FOR Aquacoir and a few votes AGAINST Aquacoir...

how many people have actually used this stuff?

[hyp]


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Offlinegamemaster
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: hyper_dermic]
    #792661 - 08/02/02 02:18 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

Im pretty sure any wetting agent used in soil: knowing that the soil could be potentially used with plants that produce edible by-products, would be of organic and non-carcinogenic means. The few wetting agents used in some organic growing soils through out the agricultural world are all considered to be safe by the FDA. Why would Aquacoir (miracle-grow) take the risk of applying non-organic wetting agent to their soil. Even if it was from a non-organic origin, it would hopefully be considered safe to use with plants producing edible by-product.

So the fact is, I am not sure the exact wetting agent in Aquacoir. Im assuming it is safe to use considering the risk Miracle grow would take in using unsafe or toxic wetting agents. Like I said before, there are organic and even non-organic wetting agents that are considered safe and are used in growing. With all this in mind, it would be interesting to get a hold of miracle grow and find out the exact ingredient, being that it is not posted on the bag. Anyone up to the challenge to help in the pursuit of a perfect easy already-mixed casing?? Read my posts before, i have seen my friend do wonders with it.

im sure there are no worries, peace out


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Offlinegamemaster
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Re: Casings & wetting agents [Re: gamemaster]
    #794881 - 08/03/02 10:30 PM (19 years, 2 months ago)

dddd..dddd..dddd.dddd...dd... this just in.. Aquacoir just produced for one unknown individual some of the tallest most beautiful shrooms seen to date..

it is assumed that straw, worm casting, and yes the miracle wonder Aquacoir produced this marvel. if only a camera was available to capture this prestigous moment in shroom history! shrooms grew over 9 inches in length weighing in on avg 10-12 grams wet! honestly would compare to mycofiles recent h20 grow log. they were that long and robust.

well, jack i think the mushroom world has stumbled on to something!


ddd..dd..dd..ddd... =)


--------------------
doors of perception...look for your cleansing


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Shop: Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order   Left Coast Kratom Buy Kratom Extract, Kratom Powder For Sale   North Spore Bulk Substrate, Injection Grain Bag, North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies   Original Sensible Seeds Autoflowering Cannabis Seeds, Bulk Cannabis Seeds, Feminized Cannabis Seeds, High THC Strains, USA West Coast Strains   PhytoExtractum Kratom Powder for Sale, Maeng Da Thai Kratom Leaf Powder   Kraken Kratom Kratom Capsules for Sale, Red Vein Kratom   Bridgetown Botanicals CBD Edibles, CBD Oils


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