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Offlinelester
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Registered: 05/18/07
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B+ and colonization
    #7632015 - 11/13/07 08:17 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Using the PFTek guide for BRF cakes.

.. got the substrate and injection done on Friday. Today is Tuesday (4 days after), and I can't see much evidence for colonization yet. (unless the whitening look on the BRF is what I'm after .. but it's kind of looked that way since Friday? ..)

Is this normal? That jars are in a dark place at about room temperature. Any need to switch conditions?

TIA.


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OfflineDrewwyann
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7632028 - 11/13/07 08:19 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

completely normal. Some people don't see mycelium growth until a week or sometimes more.

It usually takes 2-5 days to see some growth. So you just have some slow germinating spores is all.

Be patient, you'll see growth soon.


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OfflinePooter
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7632235 - 11/13/07 09:13 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

BRF is usually pretty slow.


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Offlinelester
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: Pooter]
    #7632380 - 11/13/07 09:47 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Ok, well I wasn't sure if the temp was too high after the jars sterilized (cooled them a bit with a fan).

I'll keep waiting I guess ... thanx.


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OfflineMarlboroMan
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7632443 - 11/13/07 10:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Yeah, once B+ starts showing, you'll be at 100% in no time. My jars with this strain have always colonized really fast. :rockon:


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Invisiblethedefone
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Registered: 10/06/07
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: MarlboroMan]
    #7632462 - 11/13/07 10:10 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

(cooled them a bit with a fan)




They sat around for like 12/24 hours after sterilization, no? If you just cooled them with a fan, and then knocked them up a couple hours later.....

Start Over.


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Offlineblueshroprachaun
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: thedefone]
    #7632516 - 11/13/07 10:25 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

(cooled them a bit with a fan)
They sat around for like 12/24 hours after sterilization, no?  If you just cooled them with a fan, and then knocked them up a couple hours later..... 
Start Over.



:thumbup:

IME allowing them to sit, foil and lid fully intact, for 36-48 hours is helpful for identifying contams before you waste spores. I would say 24 hours would be the minimum...


--------------------
"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." - Paracelsus,  the father of toxicology


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: blueshroprachaun]
    #7632603 - 11/13/07 10:48 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blueshroprachaun said:
:thumbup:

IME allowing them to sit, foil and lid fully intact, for 36-48 hours is helpful for identifying contams before you waste spores. I would say 24 hours would be the minimum...




If the were steam sterilized through a steamer/canner or a pot of boiling water, there may be some merit to waiting that long for some reason.  However, if they were autoclaved or pressure-cooked sterilized, the best thing to do is to turn the power off the unit, leave it where it is, and walk away for 8-12 hours.

It's very important to let the jars cool slowly within the pressurized chamber so that pressures within the chamber (and more importantly, within your jars) equalize slowly and evenly along with the heat generated by the process.  Prematurely depressurizing the unit will cause the vacuum inside to suck contaminated in very rapidly and throughly...all the way into your jars.

Additionally, pressure sterilized or not, the jars will still be terminally hot at the core of the jar well after they feel cool to the touch.  There's a certain practicality to patience...


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
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------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlineblueshroprachaun
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: mycocurious]
    #7632672 - 11/13/07 11:04 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:

It's very important to let the jars cool slowly within the pressurized chamber so that pressures within the chamber (and more importantly, within your jars) equalize slowly and evenly along with the heat generated by the process.  Prematurely depressurizing the unit will cause the vacuum inside to suck contaminated in very rapidly and throughly...all the way into your jars.

Additionally, pressure sterilized or not, the jars will still be terminally hot at the core of the jar well after they feel cool to the touch.  There's a certain practicality to patience...




Very Very Good Point - The only time I ran into contams after PCing them is when I got impatient because I had more jars to do... :mushroom2: :mushroom2:


--------------------
"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous." - Paracelsus,  the father of toxicology


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Offlinegreystealth
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: Drewwyann]
    #7632912 - 11/13/07 11:55 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

cultivating will probably be difficult for me then, being as impatient as I am. Heh.


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OfflineBlargIAmDead
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: blueshroprachaun]
    #7632922 - 11/13/07 11:57 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Hmmm I've been steam sterilizing mine and I wait only 7-9 hours before I inoculate...could be the reason nothing has grown on my first four B+ jars. Will let sit longer. Thanks for the unintentional advice guys :smile:.


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OfflineMarlboroMan
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: blueshroprachaun]
    #7632937 - 11/13/07 11:59 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

blueshroprachaun said:
IME allowing them to sit, foil and lid fully intact, for 36-48 hours is helpful for identifying contams before you waste spores. I would say 24 hours would be the minimum...



I do the same thing, hasn't failed me yet! But then again, I steam sterilize. :rockon:


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OfflineThe shroomy 1S
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: mycocurious]
    #7633504 - 11/14/07 02:33 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Quote:

mycocurious said:
Quote:

blueshroprachaun said:
:thumbup:

IME allowing them to sit, foil and lid fully intact, for 36-48 hours is helpful for identifying contams before you waste spores. I would say 24 hours would be the minimum...






Additionally, pressure sterilized or not, the jars will still be terminally hot at the core of the jar well after they feel cool to the touch.  There's a certain practicality to patience...




I'm kind of confused at this point Myco....  In my studies, I was under the impression that the type of heat transfer we're dealing with is related to conduction.  If that is the case, Heat would spread from the core outward towards the glass jar.  Remembering that things in life don't get "cold", they get "less warm"  The outer glass of the jar should in fact reflect the core temperature until the core and the outer glass equalized to room temperature.  I could be wrong. Just my  .02


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AMU Q&A thread.


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Invisiblemycocurious
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: The shroomy 1]
    #7633910 - 11/14/07 08:32 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I'm not going to get backed into a thermodynamics debate but don't forget to consider...

1. glass is an insulator
2. the energy will be lost from the path of least resistance, which is typically through the top/lid as it's not as good an insulator as glass.

and to put a finer point on it, the energy loss is happening through radiation of the heat, not conduction...which in turn causes the outer edges of the jar to pull heat - at a much slower rate - via conduction from the core.

beyond that you got me, I haven't had a physics class in over a decade, I'm just defining observed phenomenon, you can prove it out however you want but I think ultimately it'll come back to the fact that glass is a great insulator of heat. :shrug:


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Offlinelester
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Registered: 05/18/07
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7634010 - 11/14/07 09:52 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Kind of frustrating then, since the tek I followed had no idication fo time to wait after sterilization.

Guess I'll just wait and cross fingers ..


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Invisiblemycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7634064 - 11/14/07 10:25 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:yesnod: 

(this advice is universal in all research you every do...)
Consider every written article to be suspect.  Because it is written does not make it true.  Consider the source (author) and evaluate his attention and how well he communicates his ideas to you as an indication of the validity of his statements.  Understand the meaning of the word "research".  Research is not the process of looking up the answer to a question.  That's searching.  Researching is the process of validating the evidence and information you've discovered with your peers/colleagues and supplementing it with additional data.

I had an english teacher tell me that, god, a couple decades ago now and it really stuck.  This is especially true in the internet age when we have online encyclopedias that are free edited by anyone who decided they're a credible source...
-----------

Look at this situation as a very valuable learning opportunity.  Let the jars sit at room temperature for the next month.  If some spores survived you'll be able to watch them struggle to colonize the entire substrate and if you get any contaminates you'll be able to watch them grow and process full cycle before pitching them.  I think everyone should purposely contaminate a jar with trichoderma, cobweb and a pin mold just to see how they colonize and what they're life-cycles are like.


--------------------
:justdontknow: Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude.  I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected...

- How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates
- How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier
- How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse
------------------------------------
figgusfiddus said:
Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.


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Invisibleblackfir
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: mycocurious]
    #7634092 - 11/14/07 10:37 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

:werd:


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Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer's house is.


Edited by blackfir (11/14/07 11:34 AM)


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Offlinelester
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Registered: 05/18/07
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: blackfir]
    #7648963 - 11/17/07 10:40 PM (13 years, 3 months ago)

It's now an even 7 days and nothing .. I'm thinking spores were lost after innoc. ..

o well.


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OfflineAzurescendence
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7649381 - 11/18/07 12:36 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

Just to be safe it's always best (and this is covered in some teks, but not all) to wait overnight (if possible... maybe even PC/boil/whatever them in the evening so you can let them cool while you're sleeping) to be SURE that the residual heat inside the jars is not a potential problem... if you inoculate shortly after a good sterilization, you will, unfortunately, kill off the spores.  Wait until after the jars are cool to the touch even, as I said, many people have said 8-12 hours or overnight just to be safe. Best of luck! :mushroom2:

:peace:


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Invisiblethatamatt
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Re: B+ and colonization [Re: lester]
    #7649639 - 11/18/07 02:09 AM (13 years, 3 months ago)

I had the same problem with B+. It took literally 13 days to see some mycelium. I felt like I was watching paint dry. Incubation temp was 72F. BRF, SF-TEK. Just wait a Little longer. If nothing by 14 days there probably dead.


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Mushrooms, Mycology and Psychedelics >> Mushroom Cultivation

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