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OfflineKrissKross
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Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever
    #7619483 - 11/10/07 04:35 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

My first attempt at a bulk substrate is finnaly pinning, but the pinset is horrible. There are are only two pins growing on the 24"x12"x"2 hpoo sub. The two pins that are growing are not growing on the top of the sub either. One is growing on the side between the sub and the tray, the other one is growing in a deep crack that happened as a result of the substrate falling out of the tray and breaking.

What could be the reason for such a horrible pinset? Im thinking it could be either;
1)humidity 2)substrate is too dry 3)FAE 4)contams on the casing surface
with the likelyhood in that order.

The substrate was left uncased and placed in an FC. The FC has no holes for venting but It gets fanned at least 3 times per day, some times much more. I use perlite humidification and 6500K flourescent tube lights on 12/12. I have misted it a few times and was leaving wax paper covering it until I decided it wasnt helping any last night.

Should I be misting the substrate or is that a bad thing to do for uncased bulk subs? Im going to be giving it alot more FAE from now on and once I can get a drill and the room RH up far enough, I might put holes in the fc as well.


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OfflineVisionsToReality
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Registered: 09/22/07
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: KrissKross]
    #7619506 - 11/10/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You should probably detail your exact actions so ppl can figure out what you did wrong rather than have em try to work backwards. A lot easier


--------------------
Life is one big road with lots of signs,
So when you're ridin' through the ruts,
Don't you complicate your mind.

Flee from hate, mischief and jealousy
Don't bury your thoughts,
Put your vision to reality, yeah!


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OfflineKrissKross
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: VisionsToReality]
    #7619621 - 11/10/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Uh ok lets see, I spawned two quart jars of rye spawn to pasteurized hpoo, not sure how much but I figure the spawn ratio was at least 20%. The sub was spawned in an aluminum tray and covered with tinfoil. I checked it a few times and then when it was done I put it into the FC setup that I described above. Its been in there for about 10 days. It was not cased but as I said I had wax paper over it until yesterday. About 5-6 days ago I gave it a H202 misting straight from the bottle (%3 mixture) because I thought it might be contaminated. While draining off the excess water the substrate fell out and broke into three pieces, which I put back into the tray. Some perlite is now stuck to most of the surface of the substrate because it landed face down in the stuff. I gave it another misting with h202 the day after that and since then Iv just been caring for it as described above, Fanning it 3 times per day or more and thats about it.


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InvisibleWWorker
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Registered: 09/09/07
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: KrissKross]
    #7619666 - 11/10/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You didn't case? I am still a newb, but I think that may be part of the problem....


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: WWorker]
    #7619762 - 11/10/07 05:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm..

I think you're okay.

I would have cased, but as you have not consider dunking it to replenish the water supply in it. With it being a big cake, dunking is definitely the most effective way to achieve rehydration.

Secondly, with the substrate breaking up like that I would assume it would be better placed in colonization conditions and allowed to repair itself. I think what you have is a conflicted substrate. One that needs some repair time and one that was probably ready to pin before it was broken.

So:

Either dunk, case or both.


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OfflineKrissKross
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7620153 - 11/10/07 07:59 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Hmm I dont realy wanna dunk it, I fear contaminants already with this project, maybe I will try injecting it with water.

The substrate only broke into 3 pieces so should that be a problem?

I thought that after a substrate started pinning it cant/shouldnt be put back into vegetative mode and it shouldnt be cased either.


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: KrissKross]
    #7620167 - 11/10/07 08:05 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

You can't do anything to it until its finished its pinning (you can definitely remove the pins to cut that short though).  Is there any knotting on the surface to suggest more pins?

I'm a bit unsure as to why you believe you have contamination, you don't present any evidence, just that you have a small pinset.  I don't see how dunking is any more risky than injecting with water.

Its not a problem that you broke the substrate, but it is trauma that you wouldn't want occurring during pinning :smile:

Patience could be the key here.  You could end up with a situation where next week, without any change it pins properly.  The issue now is, is the substrate dry?


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OfflineKrissKross
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7620265 - 11/10/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

As far as I can tell there is no knotting on the surface but Iv never spotted knotting before on my cakes or cased grains.

The reason that I am worried about contamination is becuause the substrate has smelled a little weird since it finnished and also there where metabolites sitting on the surface at that time as well.

The reason Im afraid to dunk it is that Iv had a cake get contamed after dunking it before. I geusse what Im fearing is that at this point the substrate may be just barely holding the contaminant at bay and if I where to dunk it that might shift things in favour of the contaminant. I suppose thats farely ridiculous though.

How can I tell If the substrate is too dry? I dont see it turning blue but other than that I realy have no idea.

If I dunk it should I add peroxide and or bleach and how much per volume?


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: KrissKross]
    #7620995 - 11/11/07 02:27 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I'm definitely not the dunk expert (I don't do it as I cased when I grew and this was before dunking casings was practice too). I know RR recommends it and hopefully he'll stop by in this thread but I would assume there is plenty of info on dunking if you search/read the faq.

Smell is definitely not a good sign. A bacterial contam is going to get the substrate irregardless of whether you dunk.

Telling whether it is dry will be tricky. If you could post a pic that might help.


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Invisibleorchidfanatic
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7621141 - 11/11/07 06:30 AM (16 years, 3 months ago)

I know for a fact side pinning is because conditions are better at that spot and RR says thats from lack of moisture . there is more moisture at the sides. it may be RH or the substrate is dry .. thats what you need to figure out which it is..


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OfflineKrissKross
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: orchidfanatic]
    #7631427 - 11/13/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

YepYepYep and Orchidfanatic thanx for your help, Im slowly sorting this whole think out.

So I dunked the substrate two days ago, started using the wax paper again, started running a humidifier in the grow room and am leaving the window open to lower the temperature (im only lowering temperature to increase humidity).

iv gotten more pins now but theyr all still on the side or in cracks as before. As of right now im giving it another 3 hour dunk. Thats not bad for any mushrooms that are currently maturing right? What im thinking is going on is that the surface of the substrate keeps drying out because of a too low humidity, sound about right? If I dunked and it still doesnt form pins on the surface I can only assume thats the case.

I have a few more questions then
1) When is the substrate likely to go into consolidation mode, what sort of timeframe do I have to encourage pin development.

2)How well does the substrate actualy distribute water. If only 1/2 - 2/3 of the substrate is submerged in water, will that mean that the surface will still be too dry to form pins?

3)im using two standard 6500K flourescent tubes (1 ballast fits 2 tubes) at about 2 feet above the FC. Is the this too close and if I remove one of the tubes would that benefit me in terms of temperature (and therefore humidity)

4)whats the best way to get constant evaporation from the substrate surface while maintaining good hydration. Just use the wax paper? should I mist the surface of the bulk just before I fan it everytime? Could I mist heavily and then leave the tray in open air until I see that most of the moisture has dried off and then put it back in the FC? What about a 0.5 - 1.0cm layer of damp perlite on top of the substrate to encouradge humidity under the wax paper.

5) how about laying a thin layer of 50/50 mix over the substrate even if not to be colonized but possibly just for the humid microclimate benefit alone. If I leave it shallow enough, would it inhibit pin formation in any way?


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InvisibleNwerd
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Re: Hpoo Bulk sub, saddest pinset ever [Re: KrissKross]
    #7631463 - 11/13/07 04:48 PM (16 years, 3 months ago)

Gotta case those poo trays... It's a waste of the Hpoo tek if you don't case... You'll get some results... But next time... case that bad boy... And I would go 3 inches of poo if not 4...
X to the Ooooo


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