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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Diploid]
    #7636210 - 11/14/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I watched this again and could only think that they ruined her. She's quite lovely as is, with a very nice smile. They turned her into one of those plastic doll faces you see when tripping on Acid. Yuck.


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"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7636268 - 11/14/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

oliveplume said:
Niam,

I see your point and mine was that airbrushing and make up is one and the same thing. Alterations to the human form which are not naturally occuring.

What about high-end fashion? That is an unrealistic standard in my eyes. Who has that kind of money? I sure as hell don't. Should we feel bad because we cannot afford those clothes?

Do you see where I'm going with this?

*Another thing. We allow for Fashion and marketing to have social and cultural repercussions. We are accountable for ourselves, no one can take away our happiness except us.




I'm not saying we should feel bad, or that fashion and marketing should have the profound effects that they do have on society. I am pointing out the fact that they do, in reality, inspire certain social phenomena and have particular repercussions in terms of the skewing of perception and values.

I'm not arguing against personal responsibility, but personal responsibility does not preclude the importance of understanding cultural forces and the effects things have on people. The only way to become responsible for oneself and how one feels is to understand why one feels that way in the first place - this is where social analysis comes into play. If I never realized how fucked up the beauty standard of our culture was, I never would have had the tools necessary to get over being an insecure little girl and would probably be playing the beauty game, trying to feel better about myself. Understanding the subconscious impact of the things one is constantly exposed to is the beginning of mitigating thier influence.


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636363 - 11/14/07 05:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm not saying we should feel bad, or that fashion and marketing should have the profound effects that they do have on society. I am pointing out the fact that they do, in reality, inspire certain social phenomena and have particular repercussions in terms of the skewing of perception and values.

I'm not arguing against personal responsibility, but personal responsibility does not preclude the importance of understanding cultural forces and the effects things have on people. The only way to become responsible for oneself and how one feels is to understand why one feels that way in the first place - this is where social analysis comes into play. If I never realized how fucked up the beauty standard of our culture was, I never would have had the tools necessary to get over being an insecure little girl and would probably be playing the beauty game, trying to feel better about myself. Understanding the subconscious impact of the things one is constantly exposed to is the beginning of mitigating thier influence.




I know, you are saying that they do make us feel bad and I am agreeing with you.

I shouldn't be nit picky with you on this argument. You seem like a smart woman and I definitely do agree with the potential harm that the named markets do carry with them.

The reality is that we bring the harm upon ourselves, but many individuals are not capable of seeing through the veil and associate happiness with achieving a standard that the rest of society has set. The individuals I speak of are kids and young people. We as a society are broken in so many ways and are currently not providing our children and youth with the realization that this is not who they have to be.

-Cheers :hippie:


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7636630 - 11/14/07 06:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So basically what you're saying is that you completely agree with me.

Yet you still miss the most important element of my point: the whole purpose of analysing social phenomena like this is to heal the damage, to discover the tools necessary to help our kids see through it and feel strong and confident. Personal responsibility is meaningless without an understanding of how we are effected by external factors. It isn't possible to be responsible for oneself if one does not understand oneself and ones influences. I have always strongly advocated persona responsibility: this requires understanding what effects one's perceptions.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636729 - 11/14/07 06:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

to discover the tools necessary to help our kids see through it and feel strong and confident




Like turning off the TV!


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636758 - 11/14/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

So basically what you're saying is that you completely agree with me.




haha,

I don't want to argue.

I think it is safe to assume, that we both recognize external factors as being responsible for the ill well-being of our worlds youth and that our hearts are in the right place.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Veritas]
    #7636773 - 11/14/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

For one. :thumbup:

Something my mom did that I appreciate a lot was when I was a kid she'd watch tv with me, and ask me critical questions, like if I thought the ninja turtles dealt with conflict in a realistic way. I think that's better than just trying to shelter kids, because they're going to discover things anyways and it's better they have critical thinking skills than are unaware of and thus more susceptible to pop culture.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636792 - 11/14/07 06:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes, my mom did that with me, too. Not just during TV, but in general, she would ask me to question the state of things, and really listen to my analysis. I do the same with my boys, and they have excellent critical thinking skills, IMO.

The problem with allowing kids an unlimited amount of commercial TV viewing time is that the input is overwhelming. Even great critical thinking skills have a tough time dealing with 20 hours per week of brainwashing. (The average time spent by school-age kids in the U.S.)

The bottom line, as far as I'm concerned, is that these media messages need a receptive, credulous audience in order to be effective. If we change the audience, the messages must change or perish.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Veritas]
    #7636803 - 11/14/07 06:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Parents set the tone. Without quality input from them it's less than a crap shoot.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Icelander]
    #7636812 - 11/14/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That is true in so many ways.


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Veritas]
    #7636956 - 11/14/07 07:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You're completely right, Veritas. My mom also limited tv watching time. I hated her for it then, but I'm grateful now to have slightly less pop culture polluting my brain. Most people in my age bracket can spout off hundreds of simpsons references, related to just about any topic. I am glad to have significantly less trash in my brain, although I've got a lot of it nonetheless.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7637012 - 11/14/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My favorite Simpson's reference was when he said, "I am 100%, completely, totally innocent of Nichole's murder."


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7637068 - 11/14/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7637207 - 11/14/07 08:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What I really want to know is how does 'babelicious' fit into the female beauty hierarchy and what the criterion are.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7637316 - 11/14/07 08:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This reminds me of a John Lennon song where he gives a social commentary of how women are treated, and how they treat themselves. The climax is when he screams, almost in agony, "We make her paint her face and dance!"

I never did like make-up, and preferred ladies who used very minimal amounts, if none. But after hearing that song, it completely turned me away from it.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7637376 - 11/14/07 08:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I actually like a little makeup every now and then. I don't really mind wearing makeup either(I hope I'm not revealing too much here). It's fun to dress up every once in a while. But ya, the way girls feel they have to distort their features is pretty sad. But I'm not so much concerned about makeup as I am about eating disorders.

I also have an aversion to plastic surgery. But then, I think about how some of the girls I find unattractive, and think, who am I to tell them that they have to accept their body as it is? I think it's a shame the unrealistic standards that society pushes upon them, but I also respect their right to change their body as they see fit. I like my tattoos and piercings, so why shouldn't they like their new nose?

It's a tough balance. I don't like these artificial standards of beauty, but at the same time, I don't like the way people who get plastic surgery or things like that are looked down upon. I think your body is your canvas, and you can choose to change it as you like.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Silversoul]
    #7637394 - 11/14/07 08:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm not sure where I stand on body alterations, specifically plastic surgery. I mean, I always have a con to go against a pro...

"She got a boob job, whatever she needs to feel better about herself"
"She should have not chopped at the symptoms, but got to the root of her self-esteem problem. Plus it's kind of vain..."

"He became a she, and if that's what he/she needed to do, then fine."
"Yeah, but if he's having an gender identity crisis, maybe he should fix that problem, rather than feed it."

I don't know. As Lennon said, "Whatever gets you through the night, its alright." (I'm on a Lennon roll!).

I guess for me, the question is, should we cope or cure?


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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Offlinefreddurgan
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: Silversoul]
    #7637710 - 11/14/07 11:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Throughout High School and college, I never fantasized about models or movie stars. Only girls I saw in school. I don't think they were airbrushed.




I agree. It was always the real girls that turned me on the most. Movie stars never did shit for me.


--------------------
Ishmael
http://www.ishmael.org

Ron Paul 2008!
http://www.ronpaul2008.com/


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: freddurgan]
    #7638675 - 11/15/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This may have no relevance at all, but I have always found Louise Brooks to be very beautiful:



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Offlineshakercee
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Re: No Wonder Our Perception Of Beauty Is So Distorted [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7638999 - 11/15/07 10:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I found her cute much like Elisha Cuthbert.  I prefer naturals.:cool:


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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