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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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jonathan_206 said:
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Not everyone would be concerned and they would not act to save that person.
Your values bring you some sort of satisfaction and your values dictate your actions in this instance.
So in your view, compassion and selfless acts of love are merely my personal values, and are subjective. That is wrong. You deny intrinsic human nature.
No YOU ARE WRONG
If they're not subjective then how come everyone (like me) doesn't share them?
All your views are your personal values here. If you can't see that then you can't see. My views and every other persons on earth are in some way different then yours. Even on the things that people agree about there is some variation. Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Etc.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
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No.  Even though desire and Will might seem similar at the first sight, there is a fine distinction (but with many implications) between the two of them. Can you keep focus on that distinction? 
You cannot have will without desire. It's foolish to say you can. To will for anything, is to desire for that thing.
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Jack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim



Registered: 04/14/06
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im glad i didnt have to explain that whole desire issue
-------------------- Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time TRANSCEND
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Icelander]
#7635670 - 11/14/07 03:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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All your views are your personal values here. If you can't see that then you can't see. My views and every other persons on earth are in some way different then yours. Even on the things that people agree about there is some variation. Baptist, Methodist, Catholic, Presbyterian, Etc.
'
Just because there are different opinions does not make them subjective.
Subjective means it depends on ME. But an opinion can be based on objective truth.
You use the word subjective to mean that the only truth is the subjective truth, to each and every person.
But how do you determine this without an objective truth? You cannot.
Edited by jonathan_206 (11/14/07 03:22 PM)
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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You jump on me so fast you don't even give me a chance to explain instances in more detail (not that that's what this thread is ultimately about) before you come down on me. It was a summarizing statement, and if you don't like it, I'm not sorry.
I don't jump into any conclusion, I simply reply to your answers. I don't give you a chance to explain?  What have you done instead of trying to explain, while posting? One would think that when the other person has replied to his/hes questions, they took all their time and explained the best way they could the matter in discussion. For all I know, I didn't set you any time limit to answer my questions.
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You keep trying to hold me to some standard of logic based upon your own personal perceptional premise and understanding of the world, which I emphatically deny. Now stop it.
Please keep your emotional drama to yourself. I am in no way interested in you inner experiences, so let's focus on the subject, shall we? Oh, and just to make things clear, I am not holding onto you my personal perception about logic, since the concept of logic exists loooong before I was born.  And to make things easier for you, here it is:
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logĀ·ic (lŏj'ĭk) Pronunciation Key n.
1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning. 2. 1. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic. 2. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow. 3. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science. 4. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions. 5. Computer circuitry. 6. Graphic representation of computer circuitry. 3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.

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That person makes us feel joy when their life is in danger? When you've never even met them before?
No, but one might find comfort in the thought that he saved a life, and therefore made his/her life useful.  The list of reasons can go on but I find it useless to continue as I explained to you more than enough.
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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So at this point, how many of us will readily admit theyre elitist?
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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daytripper23 said: So at this point, how many of us will readily admit theyre elitist?
hey.. i've claimed that smiley. only i may use it
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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EternalCowabunga said:
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daytripper23 said: So at this point, how many of us will readily admit theyre elitist?
hey.. i've claimed that smiley. only i may use it
That's SO elitist of you to say that
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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But how do you determine this without an objective truth? You cannot.
Sure I can and I do. I don't believe there is an objective truth to be found. Of course if I was insane I might believe that what I thought was truth (because god told me on psychedelics one night) had to be objective truth because I thought it was, but that's even more self-important and egotistical than I can work myself up to.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



Registered: 04/04/05
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Quote:
MushroomTrip said:
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EternalCowabunga said:
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daytripper23 said: So at this point, how many of us will readily admit theyre elitist?
hey.. i've claimed that smiley. only i may use it
That's SO elitist of you to say that
That's so elitist of you to point that out
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



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I know. That's why I'm the number one elitist
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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I humbly allow you to be in that position for I am like the wise leader whom nobody knows the extent of his efforts because he did it with no trace of ego.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
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You let a gurl wup you.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Icelander]
#7635787 - 11/14/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
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But how do you determine this without an objective truth? You cannot.
Sure I can and I do. I don't believe there is an objective truth to be found. Of course if I was insane I might believe that what I thought was truth (because god told me on psychedelics one night) had to be objective truth because I thought it was, but that's even more self-important and egotistical than I can work myself up to. 
You don't understand.
To perceive anything, one must start with at least 1 objective truth.
You say everyone's "truth" is subjective. But you then determine their opinions weight of objectivity (or lack of it). You say, no, that's not objective. How can you tell, if your perception is subjective also? And how can you say, you don't believe there is an objective truth to be found, judging by your subjective opinion? This is a objective statement. But you cannot determine objective by subjective. But to determine subjective, you must first determine objective.
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Icelander]
#7635788 - 11/14/07 03:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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No!
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MushroomTrip
Dr. Teasy Thighs



Registered: 12/02/05
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Hell yeah
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   All this time I've loved you And never known your face All this time I've missed you And searched this human race Here is true peace Here my heart knows calm Safe in your soul Bathed in your sighs
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daytripper23
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So Jon, What exactly is the difference between wisdom and elitism then?
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EternalCowabunga
Being of Great Significance



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this isn't the last of meeeeeee
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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You say everyone's "truth" is subjective. Here is my objective truth.
. How can you tell, if your perception is subjective also?
I can't, I can't do it because I do not now how to tell what the truth is. So maybe my subjective opinions about you are really objective but I certainly don't think so.
How could I determine objective truth if I am not the creator of it? Most folk do not believe what I believe. That tells me something important.
I "believe" to know objective truth one would have to have infinite capabilities of thought. As far as I know, no human has that. And as far as I know (although I have explored it for 50+ years) there is no way to know if there is really a god or not.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Quote:
So Jon, What exactly is the difference between wisdom and elitism then?
There are many differences. One great difference is that wisdom is humble and seeks to include everyone. Elitism is proud and seeks to exclude others.
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