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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
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wisdom and elitism
    #7631236 - 11/13/07 03:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Isn't it funny how easily one becomes the other?


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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OfflinePhanTomCat
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7632101 - 11/13/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Everything is funny....    :thumbup:

Well, except having a headache....  N'stuff....


>^;;^<


--------------------
I'll be your midnight French Fry....  :naughty:

"The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...."

>^;;^<


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InvisibleTheHateCamel
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Registered: 01/31/03
Posts: 15,738
Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7632181 - 11/13/07 07:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A truly wise person wouldn't be involved in eliteism.

Truly wise people don't have a great deal of pride regarding their wisdom.

I wonder if someone can become less wise?

De-wised?

What does it mean to be truly wise?


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OfflineJG1
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Registered: 05/09/07
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: TheHateCamel]
    #7632193 - 11/13/07 07:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

hatecamel speaks the truth.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: PhanTomCat]
    #7632205 - 11/13/07 07:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Lets say that wisdom is basically an understanding of existance, ok? Then wouldnt it seem that pursuit of wisdom is in the direction of generalization, exemplified by the fundamental philosophical question of "what is existance?"

Existance is this that and everything, and so in our seeming comprehension of existance, it is expressed in ultimatly generalized terms, applying to the entirity of what we sense.


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: daytripper23]
    #7635295 - 11/14/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No, it is not trying to find "what is existence", or recognising a generalized comprehension of existence.

Wisdom is a human ability and attribute that recognizes the reality nad truth of the world around us and the spiritual, and importantly discerns the correct way for humans to live and behave in the world.

True wisdom does not lead to elitism, because people who are truly wise, as camel said because wise people are not proud. Pride is contrary to wisdom. Wise people are alienated by society and seek to share and enlighten others.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7635313 - 11/14/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wisdom + truth = power = elitism.

The problem is that even the wisest and honest person can be influenced by negative forces. Corruption and evil.

Fuck man if i was Jesus and you fed me enough alcohol, there's no telling what I may do. I may end up at the strip club anyway, u know?


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7635315 - 11/14/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:

Wisdom is a human ability and attribute that recognizes the reality nad truth of the world around us and the spiritual, and  importantly discerns the correct way for humans to live and behave in the world.






Is there any correct (and universal) way for humans to behave in the world? Not that I know of. Maybe you could explain your statements.

Quote:

Wise people are alienated by society and seek to share and enlighten others.




Can you please rephrase that?
Is it because they're wise that they're trying to enlighten others?
Or do they do it because they're alienated?
I tend to think that the latter is more true. :smirk:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7635318 - 11/14/07 01:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wisdom + truth = power = elitism.

The problem is that even the wisest and honest person can be influenced by negative forces. Corruption and evil. Therefore elitism could exhude nasty things.

Fuck man if i was Jesus and you fed me enough alcohol, there's no telling what I may do. I may end up at the strip club anyway, u know?


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7635324 - 11/14/07 02:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Ginseng1 said:
Wisdom + truth = power = elitism.





Sorry, there's a missing link here.
I suspect that your calculations were not made by reason but by emotion.
Personal power (wisdom) has nothing to do with the power that one uses in order to control others. On the contrary.

Quote:

The problem is that even the wisest and honest person can be influenced by negative forces. Corruption and evil.




And what "negative forces" are we talking about?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Registered: 04/14/06
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7635330 - 11/14/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wanting to share your wisdom she be for the greater good, not b/c youre lonely a pretentious.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7635352 - 11/14/07 02:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Knowledge can lead to elitism. Wisdom steers clear of such pitfalls.


--------------------


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Silversoul]
    #7635354 - 11/14/07 02:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Knowledge can lead to elitism. Wisdom steers clear of such pitfalls.




ah yes in deed.

Personal power. I guess i was more in a way trying to explain why bad things happen in this world even though ultimate wisdom does exist.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7635357 - 11/14/07 02:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:




   
Quote:

jonathan_206 said:

    Wisdom is a human ability and attribute that recognizes the reality nad truth of the world around us and the spiritual, and importantly discerns the correct way for humans to live and behave in the world.




Is there any correct (and universal) way for humans to behave in the world? Not that I know of. Maybe you could explain your statements.




  When it comes to human behaviour, there are universal guidelines for people to follow to be wise, indeed. It doesn't mean that everyone must have the same exact persuits and interests, but it means that there is a fundamental and intrinsic nature to all human beings, and there is a way of love, a way of righteousness and life must be recognised and followed whether man or woman, child or whoever.

Quote:


   
Quote:

Quote:
    Wise people are alienated by society and seek to share and enlighten others.




Can you please rephrase that?
Is it because they're wise that they're trying to enlighten others?
Or do they do it because they're alienated?
I tend to think that the latter is more true. :smirk:




No, I won't rephrase it. Wise people are loving people who wish to have fellowship with others, who wish to edify others, to give. To give is greater than to receive, and they also wish to edify others so they can have better relationships with others and built friendships. They are alienated by the society at large because of their understanding and lifestyle.

ginseng:

Quote:

Wisdom + truth = power = elitism.




nonsense. first of all such a linear and simplistic equation cannot accurately address this issue. Second, there are different types of power. In this world, those who are wise do not hold the power. They hold power in a different realm. And elitism requires that those who are elites wish to alienate others from themselves. With wise people, the opposite is true. They wish to have fellowship with others and enlighten them, and close up the gaps.

Quote:


The problem is that even the wisest and honest person can be influenced by negative forces. Corruption and evil.




and then they're not wise anymore.

Quote:

Fuck man if i was Jesus and you fed me enough alcohol, there's no telling what I may do. I may end up at the strip club anyway, u know?




A wise person would not drink too much alcohol.


Edited by jonathan_206 (11/14/07 02:17 PM)


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Jack Albertson]
    #7635366 - 11/14/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wanting to share your wisdom she be for the greater good, not b/c youre lonely a pretentious.




There's nothing wrong with sharing wisdom because you're lonely. There's nothing wrong with loving others, or desiring to be loved. Take care to discern personal needs and desires from selfishness. Not every desire is selfish.


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7635369 - 11/14/07 02:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

How about those that are truly wise, but are so wise to the point where they realize that only illusions label such matters of good and evil and elitism.

A very wise person may still eat meat from the slaughter house. Are they truly wise. I would say yes and no.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Registered: 06/22/05
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7635394 - 11/14/07 02:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
No, it is not trying to find "what is existence", or recognising a generalized comprehension of existence.

Wisdom is a human ability and attribute that recognizes the reality nad truth of the world around us and the spiritual, and importantly discerns the correct way for humans to live and behave in the world.





All of what you mention, is derivitive of my assertion that wisdom is an understanding of existance, which you effectively bastardized by inserting this notion of "correct way" of living. Consequently, this is where you will find your elitism...


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: Ginseng1]
    #7635396 - 11/14/07 02:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wisdom deals with reality, not illusion.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7635402 - 11/14/07 02:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jonathan_206 said:
Quote:

wanting to share your wisdom she be for the greater good, not b/c youre lonely a pretentious.




There's nothing wrong with sharing wisdom because you're lonely. There's nothing wrong with loving others, or desiring to be loved. Take care to discern personal needs and desires from selfishness. Not every desire is selfish.



there shouldnt be desire.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: wisdom and elitism [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
    #7635407 - 11/14/07 02:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

No, I won't rephrase it. Wise people are loving people who wish to have fellowship with others, who wish to edify others, to give. To give is greater than to receive, and they also wish to edify others so they can have better relationships with others and built friendships. They are alienated by the society at large because of their understanding and lifestyle.




How do you know exactly what wise people need to do?
I think that the most basic common sense is to realize that each of us have to travel our own way and reach our own conclusions, so keeping that in mind, I can suspect that a truly wise being has this decency and understanding in letting others make their own mistakes without telling them how they should act.
Giving is better than receiving? This sounds like total BS to me. Any time that we "give", we do it because we find pleasure or joy in it. So wouldn't it be appropriate to say that even when we apparently only give, we also receive something?


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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