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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Everthing important has already been discovered.
    #7630297 - 11/13/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630393 - 11/13/07 12:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Even the most seemingly basic things become re(de)fined by finding better and more precise means to measure and conceptualize reality onto the canvas of our minds.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibledblaney
Human Being

Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 7,894
Loc: Here & Now
Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630409 - 11/13/07 01:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe so, but what good does a discovery made by someone thousands of years ago have if you can't verify it for yourself? You can agree with them, take in their words and ideas and accept them, but that doesn't mean that you see what they saw.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleJack Albertson
bismillah rahmani rahim
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: dblaney]
    #7630419 - 11/13/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

realizations are always fresh.


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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Offlinekotik
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630429 - 11/13/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




including this post.  you aren't telling me anything I didn't already know  :tongue:


--------------------
No statements made in any post or message by myself should be construed to mean that I am now, or have ever been, participating in or considering participation in any activities in violation of any local, state, or federal laws. All posts are works of fiction.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7630555 - 11/13/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
Even the most seemingly basic things become re(de)fined by finding better and more precise means to measure and conceptualize reality onto the canvas of our minds.




NOT! This is one of humanities little self-important delusions. Especially for those who haven't read the big thinkers of the past. We rework it into modern lingo and then pat ourselves on the sholder but it's old hash in a new can. This is especially true of the young who believe that history began with their birth and will end with their death and every "new" discovery is the amazing and they just gotta tell their friends that they are on to something big here. I did the same for most of my life.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: kotik]
    #7630564 - 11/13/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

kotik said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




including this post.  you aren't telling me anything I didn't already know  :tongue:




This is for those who don't know.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630615 - 11/13/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In the book, "Way of the Peaceful Warrior", Dan Millman was introduced to a fellow student/disciple of 'Socrates', their teacher. The other student asked, "Oh, is Socrates having you do hundred mile runs or walking on coals?" Socrates interjected non-sarcastically, but with a sly grin, "No, we are working on something much more difficult. We are working on how to properly eat, stand and breathe."


When I teach racquetball, I always stress mastering the basics. If only I could learn them myself as I still wolf down my food, slouch and shallow breathe.


--------------------


Edited by OrgoneConclusion (11/13/07 02:04 PM)


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OfflineMushroomTrip
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630759 - 11/13/07 02:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




Yeah but there's just something which makes us keep talking :shrug:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7630869 - 11/13/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I might agree with this if our thought processes were purely intellectual. New things are being artistically expressed everyday though.

But perhaps like you said, even what art expresses could be by no means unique from one piece of art to another. If art is fundamentally expressing the same thing, this might be called a unified "meaning" or conception of art.

How what we do relates to a possible ultimate structure might be called life's meaning (or non meaning if there is no ultimate structure). Deriving meaning in this way is not my cup of tea though. To me, possibility of meaning is not found in what we objectively do (which might be the same like you said), but how we go about doing it.

Or think of it this way: western music is composed of 12 tones, and in this sense it is all the same. But I think what some musicians are doing these days as completely unique, even revolutionary. Sure, all it is is a complex arrangements of tone over time...

What you've said, seems to me to clearly point towards an absolute reality. This is not my attempt to put words in your mouth ice, I am just describing the implications of what you say towards my own conception of reality.

I just wanna let you know that you might inadvertently be preaching God's glory to some of us.:smirk:


Edited by daytripper23 (11/13/07 02:59 PM)


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7631357 - 11/13/07 04:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibleadrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7631650 - 11/13/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

But isn't it more fun to figure it out all by yourself?


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7634343 - 11/14/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.



That's what I think, too.

For everything known, there always is a first time.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7634968 - 11/14/07 12:48 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MushroomTrip said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




Yeah but there's just something which makes us keep talking :shrug:




For me it's kind of like watching TV but more interactive.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7634981 - 11/14/07 12:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.




Can you demonstrate your point?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: adrug]
    #7634988 - 11/14/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

adrug said:
But isn't it more fun to figure it out all by yourself?




Can't be done. But you do have to understand it all by yourself.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7635009 - 11/14/07 12:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

What you've said, seems to me to clearly point towards an absolute reality. This is not my attempt to put words in your mouth ice, I am just describing the implications of what you say towards my own conception of reality.

Not necessarily. What it may "clearly" point to is the limits of human understanding. We may not be able to go any further as a species. Finite and all.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635059 - 11/14/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.



What difference does it make? What somebody else discovered doesn't mean anything to you until you discover it for yourself. Your options are to continue your exploration or quit. I know which I'll choose.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: elbisivni]
    #7635075 - 11/14/07 01:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm sorry you're quitting.:(


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635157 - 11/14/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.



I suppose you make an exception here for science, but it seems that new scientific discoveries often open up new philosophical questions.


--------------------


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635167 - 11/14/07 01:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




The point is that you are discovering it.


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7635188 - 11/14/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

(I like putting words in other poster's mouths.)

He is saying that he has discovered there is nothing to discover.


--------------------


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OfflineLion
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635239 - 11/14/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:but it's old hash in a new can.


Yet hash it remains! :blazed:


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Lion]
    #7635245 - 11/14/07 01:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Deep-fried SPAM on a stick...


--------------------


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OfflineGinseng1
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7635259 - 11/14/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There is always more to know.

If we knew everything, then we would be playing squash in the heavens.


--------------------
Flowing through beginningless time since time without beginning...


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635470 - 11/14/07 02:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Quote:

What you've said, seems to me to clearly point towards an absolute reality. This is not my attempt to put words in your mouth ice, I am just describing the implications of what you say towards my own conception of reality.




Not necessarily. What it may "clearly" point to is the limits of human understanding. We may not be able to go any further as a species. Finite and all.




Yeah, "clearly" is definately up for interpretation here: :lol: 

Touche


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7635480 - 11/14/07 02:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.



I suppose you make an exception here for science, but it seems that new scientific discoveries often open up new philosophical questions.




Can you share one of these new philosophical questions?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7635490 - 11/14/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(I like putting words in other poster's mouths.)

He is saying that he has discovered there is nothing to discover.




I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/14/07 02:45 PM)


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635511 - 11/14/07 02:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To say we are all binded in this same way seems to implicate absolution (even if it is meaningless).

O and to get one thing straight, I am advocating neither meaning or meaningless, although they are obvious implications...

Science, Logic, Religion, Philosophy, are at most man made associations that provide context, and believing that they are more than this is the most common dogma.



Edited by daytripper23 (11/14/07 03:13 PM)


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Invisibleelbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635593 - 11/14/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I'm sorry you're quitting.:(





--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7635631 - 11/14/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To say we are all binded in this same way seems to implicate absolution (even if it is meaningless).

Who said this?:confused:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledaytripper23
?
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635649 - 11/14/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Were you not saying that we are all subject to the same thing?


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635653 - 11/14/07 03:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(I like putting words in other poster's mouths.)

He is saying that he has discovered there is nothing to discover.




I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further. 




Don't go putting words in your own mouth. :nono:


--------------------


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7635741 - 11/14/07 03:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Were you not saying that we are all subject to the same thing?




No, I said everything we have discovered in the realm of P&S has already been discovered in the past. I did say I was implying it may be be that we have gone as far as we can but I didn't say I knew that for sure.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/14/07 03:35 PM)


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635892 - 11/14/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further. 




Who cares. :shrug: It doesn't make a difference to me if some desert ascetic in Judea 'discovered' an experience 2000 years ago, his experience was his. My experience is mine. It doesn't matter if someone else has already been there. I don't need my mystical realm to be virgin territory. The point is having the experience.

Besides, everyone interprets and understands the 'same' experiences in thier own unique way, combining different ideas and insights in novel ways. This is how ideas develop and shift. No one ever comes up with anything entirely unique - we're standing on the shoulders of giants, as it were.


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7635916 - 11/14/07 04:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

ya right
we rediscover that we know knothing


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636007 - 11/14/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

NiamhNyx said:
Quote:

Icelander said:

I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further. 




Who cares. :shrug: It doesn't make a difference to me if some desert ascetic in Judea 'discovered' an experience 2000 years ago, his experience was his. My experience is mine. It doesn't matter if someone else has already been there. I don't need my mystical realm to be virgin territory. The point is having the experience.

Besides, everyone interprets and understands the 'same' experiences in thier own unique way, combining different ideas and insights in novel ways. This is how ideas develop and shift. No one ever comes up with anything entirely unique - we're standing on the shoulders of giants, as it were.




I'm not arguing any of this. I guess the point of my post is really to appreciate those giants and realize that we are not better or smarter than they were. We are all working on the same things and have been as far back as recorded history.

Personally I think it's amazing that some one like Epictetus was the inspiration for Rational Emotive Therapy. I realize that there are limits to the important questions and I don't need to be looking for something original as if there is some missing part to the important questions of existence. It's all here now.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7636019 - 11/14/07 04:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

redgreenvines said:
ya right
we rediscover that we know knothing




We rediscover that we are not unique. That these are age old questions and we most likely will not find "the" ultimate answers to life. We will still be exploring the human condition with all it's limitations just as our ancestors did. That to me is somehow powerful.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7636052 - 11/14/07 04:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ah, I was under the impression of otherwise.

Icelander the Enigma...


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7636067 - 11/14/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I knew my post would get the responses it did and that many wouldn't realize what my point was. I like that as it makes me feel a little bit like Jesus.:rofl2: I wait until I get a certain response that stimulates me to say it in another way and make my point. I don't know why but I just really like posting that way.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNiamhNyx
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7636217 - 11/14/07 05:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I guess the point of my post is really to appreciate those giants and realize that we are not better or smarter than they were. We are all working on the same things and have been as far back as recorded history.

Personally I think it's amazing that some one like Epictetus was the inspiration for Rational Emotive Therapy. I realize that there are limits to the important questions and I don't need to be looking for something original as if there is some missing part to the important questions of existence. It's all here now.




Right on. :thumbup: Then we are on the same page after all. :lol:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: NiamhNyx]
    #7636230 - 11/14/07 05:20 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

More often then you might think.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleClean
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7636244 - 11/14/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

discovering yourself can continue beyond puberty...
and i doubt many others have done that before you.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Clean]
    #7636262 - 11/14/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea what you mean by that?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7636283 - 11/14/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

No one has ever discovered you before.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7636357 - 11/14/07 05:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not even me. :whoa:

But that's another subject.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/14/07 05:38 PM)


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Invisibleelbisivni
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7637490 - 11/14/07 09:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I knew my post would get the responses it did and that many wouldn't realize what my point was. I like that as it makes me feel a little bit like Jesus.:rofl2: I wait until I get a certain response that stimulates me to say it in another way and make my point. I don't know why but I just really like posting that way.



I don't know, it really sounds to me like you're just wingin' it :shrug:


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7637517 - 11/14/07 09:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.




Can you demonstrate your point?




The old religions are on a steady march toward irrelevance because so much of their actual content is coming under scrutiny and being reconsidered by science and modern social sensibility.

Living a life of quiet contemplation in the mountaintops is all well and good, but to find a space of quiet and inner peace while living in the modern world? That's a whole different ballgame from anything anyone has faced, and yet that is the task before many of us. Never mind that about half the human population is in a constant process of starving to death, and in spite of the fact that we are now actually in a position to eradicate poverty and hunger at no real cost to ourselves we continue to horde our wealth and go to war. The solution to this issue is spiritual, and behold: no one has found it yet.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 09:42 PM)


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7637646 - 11/14/07 10:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

For some reason, I'm thinking of a quote from Bladerunner "These moments will be lost, like tears in the rain." and Sisyphus.

And perhaps Madonna "Like a virgin, touched for the very first time.":yesnod:


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7637700 - 11/14/07 10:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




This is so wrong I don't need to read the other replies. DNA structure was discovered 50 years ago. The internet was invented about 25 years ago. I don't even know why I replied to this?


--------------------
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Ron Paul 2008!
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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7638359 - 11/15/07 04:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

redgreenvines said:
ya right
we rediscover that we know knothing




We rediscover that we are not unique. That these are age old questions and we most likely will not find "the" ultimate answers to life. We will still be exploring the human condition with all it's limitations just as our ancestors did. That to me is somehow powerful.



that is a depressed mask of distortion.
each one of us is unique
but limited in simmilar ways.
as always has been.

the title of the thread is wrong
but you corrected it by pointing at a spiritual aspect.
Truly, a few spiritual issues are unchanging.

this mask of negativity can be spread too far
(that is something common and ancient too - being wrong but continuing anyway to fulfill mental momentum)

In actuality, everyone is unique, every moment is unique, nothing has happenned before quite like this, nor will it repeat quite like this.

Yes you can find common patterns, yes it will help to connect things in your mind using common patterns, yes it will help you make decisions.

but you need to identify the FUNK and dispell it.
it darkens your vision and your voice.
try not to spread the dark dispair of meaninglessness that you can achieve so expertly by stretching a small truth too far.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7639066 - 11/15/07 10:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(I like putting words in other poster's mouths.)

He is saying that he has discovered there is nothing to discover.




I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further.




so.....
did the "first" man discover everything? i certainly don't think that was the case.
i refuse to believe your theory. i think science will be able to prove or disprove some of our beliefs today....meaning "discovering" something new...what is discovering? just speculating on something and believing it to be true??? i don't think so.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7639373 - 11/15/07 11:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think what he's referring to is strictly limited to our capacity for the experience of life. If someone has fully realized themselves, and experienced full enlightenment, all we can do is "follow" the foot steps. Only physical evolution has a chance of opening new doors.

This is dependent on believing someone has actually reached full enlightenment, and that there has been no meaningful evolution within humanity in the last 6000 years.

The paradox is that we're all, already fully enlightened, but there might be some crap in the way that prevents us from seeing it. There's no where to go because we're already there.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: elbisivni]
    #7639479 - 11/15/07 12:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I knew my post would get the responses it did and that many wouldn't realize what my point was. I like that as it makes me feel a little bit like Jesus.:rofl2: I wait until I get a certain response that stimulates me to say it in another way and make my point. I don't know why but I just really like posting that way.



I don't know, it really sounds to me like you're just wingin' it :shrug:




All my life friend.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7639494 - 11/15/07 12:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.




Can you demonstrate your point?




The old religions are on a steady march toward irrelevance because so much of their actual content is coming under scrutiny and being reconsidered by science and modern social sensibility.

Living a life of quiet contemplation in the mountaintops is all well and good, but to find a space of quiet and inner peace while living in the modern world? That's a whole different ballgame from anything anyone has faced, and yet that is the task before many of us. Never mind that about half the human population is in a constant process of starving to death, and in spite of the fact that we are now actually in a position to eradicate poverty and hunger at no real cost to ourselves we continue to horde our wealth and go to war. The solution to this issue is spiritual, and behold: no one has found it yet.




Nothing new here. The answers have been found but almost no one wants to use them. "Twas ever thus" Try again.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7639500 - 11/15/07 12:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

OrgoneConclusion said:
(I like putting words in other poster's mouths.)

He is saying that he has discovered there is nothing to discover.




I am saying my discoveries are only new to me. Someone else already been there. I guess I am implying that however far we can go in the realm of P&S that place has already been reached and we will go no further. 




so.....
did the "first" man discover everything? i certainly don't think that was the case.
i refuse to believe your theory. i think science will be able to prove or disprove some of our beliefs today....meaning "discovering" something new...what is discovering? just speculating on something and believing it to be true??? i don't think so.




i refuse to believe your theory. 

Go for it.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7639523 - 11/15/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

try not to spread the dark dispair of meaninglessness that you can achieve so expertly by stretching a small truth too far.


:rofl2: Yes Redgreenvines I am the :hellfire: and will spread meaninglessness and dispair to the hordes of hapless humans who are under my power. :crazy2:

In other words this is nonsense. I'm not spreading anything. I discussing a topic of interest in this forum. If you can't handle it then don't read it.:monkeydance:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: freddurgan]
    #7640459 - 11/15/07 03:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

freddurgan said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
In the realm of P&S I mean.

In all your searching for "truth" and the "way" you will just find out for yourself what some human discovered thousands of years ago or before.




This is so wrong I don't need to read the other replies. DNA structure was discovered 50 years ago. The internet was invented about 25 years ago. I don't even know why I replied to this?




"In the realm of P&S" does not include DNA OR the internet.  :rolleyes:

If you read ancient philosophers, you will find that they introduced the basic ideas which modern philosophers have re-worked.  This is what this post is about.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640527 - 11/15/07 04:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes ancient philosophers described the branches of philosophy, and we could describe modern notions as "Oh, thats just ethics, or metaphysics, transcendentalism, these implications have been explored."

Or taken even further, anything anybody ever said about anything at all could be considered insignificant in that "Oh, thats just existance you know"

I think its conceiveable that the interconnectedness of the world by internet might someday bring us to a revolutionary level of awareness. But it's still just existance...


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640615 - 11/15/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Discovered and explored are not the same thing.  We can constantly find new ways to explore and apply ancient knowledge, but it makes sense to put it in perspective as "old wine in new bottles."  :shrug:


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640634 - 11/15/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if we take a Socratic view, then not only has everything important been discovered, but it's actually already in your mind, waiting to be brought out through proper examination(i.e. the Socratic method).


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7640645 - 11/15/07 04:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Live the questions!  :wink:


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7640660 - 11/15/07 04:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Collective enlightenment would be a completely new concept. Its possible...

Specially with wikipedia!


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640701 - 11/15/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Information is not enlightenment.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640731 - 11/15/07 04:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

daytripper23 said:
Collective enlightenment would be a completely new concept. Its possible...

Specially with wikipedia!




There are infinite possibilities that are so remote as to be, IMO, impossible. What's your point?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640735 - 11/15/07 04:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Right I know, but all the philosophy that is in this forum is in the form of information...and philosophy can certainly be tied to enlightenment.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640758 - 11/15/07 05:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It's all in the application, IMO.  You can be inundated with valid, relevant information, but if you cannot or will not apply it to your behavior and habitual thoughts, it will not result in personal change.

IMO, enlightenment is more of an occasional flash, as opposed to a state one can "attain."  The key is to keep remembering the flash after the lights are off again. :wink:


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640783 - 11/15/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes of course reading about enlightenment doesnt make one enlightened. But that doesn't imply that it has nothing to do with the process of application.


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InvisibleVeritas
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640791 - 11/15/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, you do need to know before you can apply, but this does not mean that Wikipedia is going to result in collective enlightenment.  Very few people are using the internet to seek out knowledge...unless it is carnal knowledge. :wink:


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640799 - 11/15/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Very few people are using the internet to seek out knowledge...unless it is carnal knowledge

I don't know WHAT you're talking about! :seeya:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640816 - 11/15/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Again, im not saying that information = enlightenment.

What enlightenment is, I don't claim to know. But if it is something taught by existance, which seems to make sense to me, then the spreading of information concerning life would be highly relavent.

What is different about this than when the printing press was invented? Do you think books are equally useless in regaurds to enlightenment?


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640835 - 11/15/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Individual enlightenment, yes. Collective enlightenment, no. You must first be seeking before you can find, and the collective is NOT seeking. This has been true throughout recorded history, and very likely throughout the existence of humans. Few of us choose to examine our lives, and so the availability of information is irrelevant to the likelihood of collective enlightenment.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640930 - 11/15/07 05:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I disagree. The way I see it, we are all heading in this direction whether we know it or not. Any tiny thing we learn about existance (which we all learn about) may lead to revelation. We evolve because we do. I don't pretend to know what drives this process, and perhaps for this reason your idea of deliberation is more perfect in theory.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640935 - 11/15/07 05:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

We are all exposed to existence, but this does not mean that we all learn about it. An unexamined life is NOT educational.


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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7640952 - 11/15/07 05:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:

So there are people out there who literally dont know shit?


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640967 - 11/15/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Why does anything evolve? Take a look at the crudest lifeforms, and evidence does not point towards deliberation. Just kind of does.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7640981 - 11/15/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Physical evolution and collective enlightenment are not similar processes. The rules of physical evolution go like this: those who can make babies, win! The rules of enlightenment seem to be: those who are able to examine their lives & gain some perspective, win!


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7641005 - 11/15/07 06:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

But our enlightenment is not really seperate from evolution. Our deliberation to become enlightened (and everything else we do)could be considered an evolutionary process. I dont see how you seperate the two.

Edit: never say should!


Edited by daytripper23 (11/15/07 06:08 PM)


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7641031 - 11/15/07 06:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"Our" deliberation as human beings?
What do you mean by that? I don't know anything about this on a universal level.
But from my observations, a big part of the people who sustain that do it because they delude themselves into thinking that maybe if they say it long enough without actually taking any action, something will happen and they will become enlightened.


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
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Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7641039 - 11/15/07 06:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To deliberately seek enlightenment, as Veritas asserts is necessary in the process.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7641044 - 11/15/07 06:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

And I asked you where did you see that happening on a universal scale


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
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Bathed in your sighs

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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: MushroomTrip]
    #7641050 - 11/15/07 06:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I dont.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7641091 - 11/15/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Tchan909 said:
I consider spiritual enlightenment an ongoing quest. Just because some individuals reached this state in their own time does not mean "everything" has been "discovered."

The world is constantly changing, and so too must its philosophies and spiritual doctrines so as to remain relevant and useful.




Can you demonstrate your point?




The old religions are on a steady march toward irrelevance because so much of their actual content is coming under scrutiny and being reconsidered by science and modern social sensibility.

Living a life of quiet contemplation in the mountaintops is all well and good, but to find a space of quiet and inner peace while living in the modern world? That's a whole different ballgame from anything anyone has faced, and yet that is the task before many of us. Never mind that about half the human population is in a constant process of starving to death, and in spite of the fact that we are now actually in a position to eradicate poverty and hunger at no real cost to ourselves we continue to horde our wealth and go to war. The solution to this issue is spiritual, and behold: no one has found it yet.




Nothing new here. The answers have been found but almost no one wants to use them. "Twas ever thus" Try again.




Heaven forbid we strive to do something that has never been done before.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7641371 - 11/15/07 07:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

so what is this thread about?
I thought I knew but maybe could not handle it
then I thought it might be something else with same as it ever was attached as a by line.
is the point being made that no new enlightenment is available?
is it not obvious that any fleeting enlightenment is related to it's unique moment?
otherwise replay of old enlightements is projection.
will there be intermission with popcorn?


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7642667 - 11/16/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

still no one addressed my comment on this "discovering" thing.

if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?

i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy

phi·los·o·phy /fɪˈlɒsəfi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fi-los-uh-fee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -phies.
1. the rational investigation of the truths and principles of being, knowledge, or conduct.
2. any of the three branches, namely natural philosophy, moral philosophy, and metaphysical philosophy, that are accepted as composing this study.
3. a system of philosophical doctrine: the philosophy of Spinoza.
4. the critical study of the basic principles and concepts of a particular branch of knowledge, esp. with a view to improving or reconstituting them: the philosophy of science.
5. a system of principles for guidance in practical affairs.
6. a philosophical attitude, as one of composure and calm in the presence of troubles or annoyances.

your definition of philosophy seems way too narrow. i think knowledge is limitless.....
there are things out there (i presume) that we are physically incapable of understanding. discovery to me means understanding....and there are many things we don't understand yet....and somethings i think we will be able to understand in the distant future that we could never understand before.


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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Veritas]
    #7643457 - 11/16/07 09:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Individual enlightenment, yes.  Collective enlightenment, no.  You must first be seeking before you can find, and the collective is NOT seeking.  This has been true throughout recorded history, and very likely throughout the existence of humans.  Few of us choose to examine our lives, and so the availability of information is irrelevant to the likelihood of collective enlightenment.





Yes yes yes :thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7643478 - 11/16/07 09:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)


if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?

i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy


Yes, most likely the first man didn't consciously create the whole of philosophy and spirituality. It happened over time.

I'm not disputing this. I'm saying all the things we need to know about these subjects have been discovered. Now it's all just stirring the pot with the same ingredients and getting slightly different spoonfuls.

Tell me something new that hasn't been addressed in the past?


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643583 - 11/16/07 10:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tell me something new that hasn't been addressed in the past?


A flying billygoat named Roxanne is about to smash through your bedroom window.


--------------------
“Strengthened by contemplation and study,
I will not fear my passions like a coward.
My body I will give to pleasures,
to diversions that I’ve dreamed of,
to the most daring erotic desires,
to the lustful impulses of my blood, without
any fear at all, for whenever I will—
and I will have the will, strengthened
as I’ll be with contemplation and study—
at the crucial moments I’ll recover
my spirit as was before: ascetic.”


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Lion]
    #7643587 - 11/16/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lol:


--------------------
:bunny::bunnyhug:
All this time I've loved you
And never known your face
All this time I've missed you
And searched this human race
Here is true peace
Here my heart knows calm
Safe in your soul
Bathed in your sighs

:bunnyhug: :yinyang2:


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643624 - 11/16/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This reminds me of a statement that I believe was released by the US Patent Office around the end of the 19th century:

"Everything that can be invented has been invented."

So much for airplanes, computers, television, the space shuttle, the internet, cell phones, videos, CDs, DVDs, etc.

I think your premise here is about as short-sighted as the patent office in this example.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7643764 - 11/16/07 11:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Prove me wrong.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Lion]
    #7643768 - 11/16/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

bug said:
Quote:

Tell me something new that hasn't been addressed in the past?


A flying billygoat named Roxanne is about to smash through your bedroom window.




Not a philosophical or spiritual concept. Try again.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643811 - 11/16/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Prove me wrong.



We'll have to wait for the next great philosopher to come along.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7643835 - 11/16/07 11:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Don't hold your breath unless you're into population control.

New philosophers are cropping up all the time, take Eckhart Tolle for instance. He's great, people love him, and he really has nothing new to say. He's just repackaged ancient wisdom for modern folk. Nothing wrong with that.

In the Bible is sez: "There is nothing new under the sun" You may have read that book.:D


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643905 - 11/16/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, I happen to think Nietzsche and Heidegger were radical departures from any of the ancient Greek philosophers. New ideas evolve gradually, but they are quite distinct when you compare them to the ideas of hundreds or thousands of years ago.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7643916 - 11/16/07 12:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

They were the past. I'm talking about the present. The power of NOW!:lol: It's all over dude. The fat lady sang. I'm up on the roof with me fiddle.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 12:11 PM)


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643953 - 11/16/07 12:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
They were the past. I'm talking about the present. The power of NOW!:lol: It's all over dude. The fat lady sang. I'm up on the roof with me fiddle. 



So we kept having new ideas from ancient times up until the early 20th century and now there will never be any more?  Sorry dude, you're really reaching here.  The capacity of human creativity is limitless.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7643964 - 11/16/07 12:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Back to prove me wrong. Tell me something new. Come on.  I dare ya. I double dare ya.

My guess is that their ideas weren't new either but built on the past but Veritas would know more about that then I. But give me a couple of their "new" discoveries and I'll see what I can do with them. :wink:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7643972 - 11/16/07 12:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

All new ideas are built upon past ones.  That's how it works with anything.  It's called progress.  And don't give me this shit about proving you wrong.  If you're asking for new ideas that have no basis in previous ones, then you'll have to back to the first idea in history.  All others have been built on those that came before them.  Prove me wrong. :tongue:


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7643992 - 11/16/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't need to. That's what I'm saying. "There is nothing new under the sun".


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644005 - 11/16/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't need to. That's what I'm saying. "There is nothing new under the sun".



So then the same applies to evolution? Human beings are not significantly different from the earliest microorganisms?


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7644020 - 11/16/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644044 - 11/16/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.



I think it's rather relevant to the discussion. Ideas evolve just like species do. A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor. You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644066 - 11/16/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Prove me wrong.



:alert: LOGICAL FALLACY


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7644179 - 11/16/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.



I think it's rather relevant to the discussion.  Ideas evolve just like species do.  A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor.  You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).




The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S

Lets get practical But give me a couple of their "new" discoveries and I'll see what I can do with them. :wink: Give me some of these brand new ideas that have not been said or implied by the past thinkers of early history.

Here's a great example IMO.Albert Ellis, Rational Emotive Therapy is based on one simple idea. He made it into a whole system but the system is contained in something that Epictetus said. "Men are not disturbed by things that happen, but by the opinions about the things." Ken Keyes (that FWG and I are so fond of) used Albert Ellis ideas without knowing they came from Epictetus. I can imagine Epictetus may have gotten them from his father. Anyway lots of folk think these are radically new ideas. I did, until I read Epictetus.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: elbisivni]
    #7644187 - 11/16/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

elbisivni said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
Prove me wrong.



:alert: LOGICAL FALLACY




Sigh, so true.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644230 - 11/16/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S




The ability to philosophize is a evolutionary trait aquired through self consciousness. In terms of evolution, it is what seperates us from animals. Philosophy is evolution, and it is evolving as well.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644278 - 11/16/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Quote:

Silversoul said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.



I think it's rather relevant to the discussion.  Ideas evolve just like species do.  A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor.  You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).




The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S

Lets get practical But give me a couple of their "new" discoveries and I'll see what I can do with them. :wink: Give me some of these brand new ideas that have not been said or implied by the past thinkers of early history.

Here's a great example IMO.Albert Ellis, Rational Emotive Therapy is based on one simple idea. He made it into a whole system but the system is contained in something that Epictetus said. "Men are not disturbed by things that happen, but by the opinions about the things." Ken Keyes (that FWG and I are so fond of) used Albert Ellis ideas without knowing they came from Epictetus. I can imagine Epictetus may have gotten them from his father. Anyway lots of folk think these are radically new ideas. I did, until I read Epictetus.



I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger.  Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl.  Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism.  However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new.  It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7644288 - 11/16/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Philosophy is evolution,

Wrong. Evolution has to do with survival until you breed and pass on your genes. There is proof that philosophy has anything to do with survival.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:41 PM)


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7644290 - 11/16/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Another thing, you keep saying to mention an important new philosophical insight, but we dont know what qualifies as new. Its all in the past, unless you want us to come with a revolutionary idea off the top of our heads. So define your terms: when was everything important to philosophy discovered?


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7644307 - 11/16/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

1053BC to be exact.:rofl2: I don't know exactly.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:44 PM)


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644308 - 11/16/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Can you philosophize without surviving?

Dude, everything you do is attributable to evolution.


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644320 - 11/16/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

1053BC to be exact. I don't know exactly.




well then asking us to be specific is sort of a silly question


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
    #7644332 - 11/16/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644340 - 11/16/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

But you do not think philosophizing is an evolutionary process?


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644345 - 11/16/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.



Yeah, but if we're talking about people evolving, I don't think that's the place to look.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7644348 - 11/16/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger. Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl. Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new. It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).


Oh but I do grasp what you are saying. I am saying IMO, everything important has already been thought out. I agree that people keep building on what the great philosophers of Rome and Greece and the Orient thought out. I'm saying nothing really important is being added to the basic principles of those past folk. It's all fluff to me in the sense that I can find the ideas in those old dudes and then take it on my own from there. Maybe other people can't do this but I can.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:54 PM)


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7644352 - 11/16/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl2: Don't show this to Hue.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7644360 - 11/16/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:lipsrsealed:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
    #7644379 - 11/16/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Finally we are on the same page.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7644592 - 11/16/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

>>>>still no one addressed my comment on this "discovering" thing.
>>>>if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?
>>>>i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy

Perhaps the concept that we can discover something new, is just as valid as the concept that we can't. When it's all said and done, maybe we'll come to the conclusion that there is no point in measuring ourselves against others, and that nothing is truly old, or new.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Rahz]
    #7644617 - 11/16/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That peacemaker thing is as old as the hills.:lol::thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlinea_guy_named_ai
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7645105 - 11/16/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

2"Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher,
"Vanity of vanities! All is vanity."
3What advantage does man have in all his work
Which he does under the sun?
4A generation goes and a generation comes,
But the earth remains forever.
5Also, the sun rises and the sun sets;
And hastening to its place it rises there again.
6Blowing toward the south,
Then turning toward the north,
The wind continues swirling along;
And on its circular courses the wind returns.
7All the rivers flow into the sea,
Yet the sea is not full.
To the place where the rivers flow,
There they flow again.
8All things are wearisome;
Man is not able to tell it.
The eye is not satisfied with seeing,
Nor is the ear filled with hearing.
9That which has been is that which will be,
And that which has been done is that which will be done.
So there is nothing new under the sun.
10Is there anything of which one might say,
"See this, it is new"?
Already it has existed for ages
Which were before us.
11There is no remembrance of earlier things;
And also of the later things which will occur,
There will be for them no remembrance
Among those who will come later still.






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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7645353 - 11/16/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That doesn't mean our work is done, or even close.

If you sit back now, content in your assurance to yourself that you know everything, you're nothing but a quitter.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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Invisibledaytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7646534 - 11/17/07 01:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well Im got a little messed up tonight and was thinking about this
thread, and it occured to me:

How could anyone possibly assume that everything important is discovered by humanity, unless this person has discovered these importances personally?

Either some of you are highly faithful in your own philosophy/enlightenment, faith in your own instincts that would somehow point to this, or faith towards somekind of doctrine outside yourself.(I use the word doctrine because only a doctrine would seem establish the kind of finality that would assert this.)

Actually, I admit that ive been playing devils advocate in this conversation to a certain extent, because this same conflict is in my own head. I actually lean quite a bit towards agreeing with the original post, but I realize that I am doing this upon faith in my instincts as well as a faith in many spiritual traditions. But it seemed like mostly the cynics were the ones arguing for this so Im wondering what your position is on this?


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646650 - 11/17/07 03:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

limpet mentality
stick to rock
keep shell tight
100 million years old


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:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646677 - 11/17/07 04:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:

if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?

i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy


Yes, most likely the first man didn't consciously create the whole of philosophy and spirituality. It happened over time.

I'm not disputing this. I'm saying all the things we need to know about these subjects have been discovered. Now it's all just stirring the pot with the same ingredients and getting slightly different spoonfuls.

Tell me something new that hasn't been addressed in the past?




how do you not see that this admission proves that there is more to be discovered?

when and how does someone like you decide there there is no more to be said?

i'm sorry...but you are not that person...there is more out there...that is still mysterious...and not to be known till a later time....

my belief anyway...and i think it is more beneficial and fun to hold that belief than it is to hold yours


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646683 - 11/17/07 04:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
They were the past. I'm talking about the present. The power of NOW!:lol: It's all over dude. The fat lady sang. I'm up on the roof with me fiddle. 




i feel sad for you icelander.

you used to be so different 3 years ago........

sorry to say you are wrong. and i don't have to give proof that you are wrong. you have to give proof to me that your premise is right....

and your premise is impossible to prove because you can't foresee hundreds of thousands upon thousands of years of evolution....so....
stop spreading the cynicism..... won't you(even though you may not see it as being that way.)? =)


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646688 - 11/17/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
Philosophy is evolution,

Wrong. Evolution has to do with survival until you breed and pass on your genes. There is proof that philosophy has anything to do with survival.




all things a species does falls back to survival...

the idea of philosophy in itself has roots in survival techniques...

conformity...

make gourps larger..fight larger groups...

make the connections man.

if you want me to write an essay and spell it out for you then lets do it.

all is related though.


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646692 - 11/17/07 04:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.




your fucking choice and ability to breed has hardly any affect on the evolution of today's species.

yet...it still does have an impact on it.

your whole Kentucky thing...almost sickens me...

you..nor i...nor anyone...can tell where evolution is going...

it may not always be best to just breed.

your whole...if you breed you evolve thing...is shit wrong.
a species may learn that during sometimes it is better not to breed (during time of low resources or food...come on now icelander give up the cynical mind set and be cool).


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646694 - 11/17/07 04:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger. Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl. Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new. It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).


Oh but I do grasp what you are saying. I am saying IMO, everything important has already been thought out. I agree that people keep building on what the great philosophers of Rome and Greece and the Orient thought out. I'm saying nothing really important is being added to the basic principles of those past folk. It's all fluff to me in the sense that I can find the ideas in those old dudes and then take it on my own from there. Maybe other people can't do this but I can.





"nothing really important is being added"...
what you should say..is nothing has been added so far...

you can't decide when things have reached ther limit or not.

this is not some simple mathematical limit equation....you are not God (nor are you even capable of comprehending the entire scope of knowledge).


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Rahz]
    #7646696 - 11/17/07 05:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Rahz said:
>>>>still no one addressed my comment on this "discovering" thing.
>>>>if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?
>>>>i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy



Perhaps the concept that we can discover something new, is just as valid as the concept that we can't. When it's all said and done, maybe we'll come to the conclusion that there is no point in measuring ourselves against others, and that nothing is truly old, or new.





that's the point...

i don't think there is an all said and done point...
i believe that if there is nothing knew to discover than there is nothing to live for/off of...

there will be no life..if there are no more "whys"?


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OfflineTameMe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7646697 - 11/17/07 05:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Icelander said:
That peacemaker thing is as old as the hills.:lol::thumbup:




those hills are a lot older than the men who thought of that saying.

so are our ideas...even ours? or are they just a collaboration of made up words inspired by landscapes?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7647210 - 11/17/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:
That doesn't mean our work is done, or even close.

If you sit back now, content in your assurance to yourself that you know everything, you're nothing but a quitter.




Never said or implied this.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7647220 - 11/17/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

you can't decide when things have reached ther limit or not.

Sure I can and I did. I'm giving my opinion here. I'm not saying it's truth. Like all of my posts it's my opinion and best guess.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
    #7647226 - 11/17/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

TameMe said:
Quote:

Icelander said:
OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.




your fucking choice and ability to breed has hardly any affect on the evolution of today's species.

yet...it still does have an impact on it.

your whole Kentucky thing...almost sickens me...

you..nor i...nor anyone...can tell where evolution is going...

it may not always be best to just breed.

your whole...if you breed you evolve thing...is shit wrong.
a species may learn that during sometimes it is better not to breed (during time of low resources or food...come on now icelander give up the cynical mind set and be cool).




If I have to be cool like you then I think I'll pass.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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Offlineshakercee
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
    #7647232 - 11/17/07 10:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Look at the number of soap operas, reality shows, games, etc. on TV and the proliferation of fashion magazines, et al..It does seem that everything important has been discovered and we are now concerned only with trivia.


--------------------
Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce

Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking.

Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc.
Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god."
- Indian Armed Forces

"Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: shakercee]
    #7647346 - 11/17/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's the way it would seem if one only payed mind to such television programs, magazines, etc. Fortunately, if you read the news or watch an informational program every once in a while you'll find that we are making incredible strides in the fields of science and that every year as our knowledge of the universe expands so does our list of questions and possible answers.

I think for sure that in the last century there have been a multitude of new philosophies explaining the general nature of our universe. Rhysmonic cosmology, the universe as a hologram, the cosmic onion - Einstein's theories are now even in question. New information provides us with new paths for philosophical and scientific thought, and we're presently uncovering all kinds of new information that could never have been ascertained before.

We've just reached another benchmark in the field of genome research and cloning technologies. We're beginning to understand and manipulate the very genetic programming that makes us us! For sure, new knowledge is bringing forth new philosophical discourse.


--------------------
From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.


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