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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
#7644592 - 11/16/07 02:54 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>still no one addressed my comment on this "discovering" thing. >>>>if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything? >>>>i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy
Perhaps the concept that we can discover something new, is just as valid as the concept that we can't. When it's all said and done, maybe we'll come to the conclusion that there is no point in measuring ourselves against others, and that nothing is truly old, or new.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Rahz]
#7644617 - 11/16/07 03:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That peacemaker thing is as old as the hills.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 767
Last seen: 15 years, 7 months
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Re: Everthing important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7645105 - 11/16/07 05:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
2"Vanity of vanities," says the Preacher, "Vanity of vanities! All is vanity." 3What advantage does man have in all his work Which he does under the sun? 4A generation goes and a generation comes, But the earth remains forever. 5Also, the sun rises and the sun sets; And hastening to its place it rises there again. 6Blowing toward the south, Then turning toward the north, The wind continues swirling along; And on its circular courses the wind returns. 7All the rivers flow into the sea, Yet the sea is not full. To the place where the rivers flow, There they flow again. 8All things are wearisome; Man is not able to tell it. The eye is not satisfied with seeing, Nor is the ear filled with hearing. 9That which has been is that which will be, And that which has been done is that which will be done. So there is nothing new under the sun. 10Is there anything of which one might say, "See this, it is new"? Already it has existed for ages Which were before us. 11There is no remembrance of earlier things; And also of the later things which will occur, There will be for them no remembrance Among those who will come later still.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7645353 - 11/16/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That doesn't mean our work is done, or even close.
If you sit back now, content in your assurance to yourself that you know everything, you're nothing but a quitter.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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daytripper23
?


Registered: 06/22/05
Posts: 3,595
Loc:
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
#7646534 - 11/17/07 01:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well Im got a little messed up tonight and was thinking about this thread, and it occured to me:
How could anyone possibly assume that everything important is discovered by humanity, unless this person has discovered these importances personally?
Either some of you are highly faithful in your own philosophy/enlightenment, faith in your own instincts that would somehow point to this, or faith towards somekind of doctrine outside yourself.(I use the word doctrine because only a doctrine would seem establish the kind of finality that would assert this.)
Actually, I admit that ive been playing devils advocate in this conversation to a certain extent, because this same conflict is in my own head. I actually lean quite a bit towards agreeing with the original post, but I realize that I am doing this upon faith in my instincts as well as a faith in many spiritual traditions. But it seemed like mostly the cynics were the ones arguing for this so Im wondering what your position is on this?
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redgreenvines
irregular verb


Registered: 04/08/04
Posts: 37,532
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646650 - 11/17/07 03:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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limpet mentality stick to rock keep shell tight 100 million years old
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646677 - 11/17/07 04:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Icelander said:
if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything?
i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy
Yes, most likely the first man didn't consciously create the whole of philosophy and spirituality. It happened over time.
I'm not disputing this. I'm saying all the things we need to know about these subjects have been discovered. Now it's all just stirring the pot with the same ingredients and getting slightly different spoonfuls.
Tell me something new that hasn't been addressed in the past?
how do you not see that this admission proves that there is more to be discovered?
when and how does someone like you decide there there is no more to be said?
i'm sorry...but you are not that person...there is more out there...that is still mysterious...and not to be known till a later time....
my belief anyway...and i think it is more beneficial and fun to hold that belief than it is to hold yours
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646683 - 11/17/07 04:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: They were the past. I'm talking about the present. The power of NOW! It's all over dude. The fat lady sang. I'm up on the roof with me fiddle.
i feel sad for you icelander.
you used to be so different 3 years ago........
sorry to say you are wrong. and i don't have to give proof that you are wrong. you have to give proof to me that your premise is right....
and your premise is impossible to prove because you can't foresee hundreds of thousands upon thousands of years of evolution....so.... stop spreading the cynicism..... won't you(even though you may not see it as being that way.)? =)
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646688 - 11/17/07 04:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Philosophy is evolution,
Wrong. Evolution has to do with survival until you breed and pass on your genes. There is proof that philosophy has anything to do with survival.
all things a species does falls back to survival...
the idea of philosophy in itself has roots in survival techniques...
conformity...
make gourps larger..fight larger groups...
make the connections man.
if you want me to write an essay and spell it out for you then lets do it.
all is related though.
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646692 - 11/17/07 04:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.
your fucking choice and ability to breed has hardly any affect on the evolution of today's species.
yet...it still does have an impact on it.
your whole Kentucky thing...almost sickens me...
you..nor i...nor anyone...can tell where evolution is going...
it may not always be best to just breed.
your whole...if you breed you evolve thing...is shit wrong. a species may learn that during sometimes it is better not to breed (during time of low resources or food...come on now icelander give up the cynical mind set and be cool).
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646694 - 11/17/07 04:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger. Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl. Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new. It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).
Oh but I do grasp what you are saying. I am saying IMO, everything important has already been thought out. I agree that people keep building on what the great philosophers of Rome and Greece and the Orient thought out. I'm saying nothing really important is being added to the basic principles of those past folk. It's all fluff to me in the sense that I can find the ideas in those old dudes and then take it on my own from there. Maybe other people can't do this but I can.
"nothing really important is being added"... what you should say..is nothing has been added so far...
you can't decide when things have reached ther limit or not.
this is not some simple mathematical limit equation....you are not God (nor are you even capable of comprehending the entire scope of knowledge).
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Rahz]
#7646696 - 11/17/07 05:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: >>>>still no one addressed my comment on this "discovering" thing. >>>>if we can't discover anything new...that means i previous man already discovered it right? well wouldn't that lead all the way back to the first man having to know everything? >>>>i think men overtime have discovered new things about spirituality and philosophy
Perhaps the concept that we can discover something new, is just as valid as the concept that we can't. When it's all said and done, maybe we'll come to the conclusion that there is no point in measuring ourselves against others, and that nothing is truly old, or new.
that's the point...
i don't think there is an all said and done point... i believe that if there is nothing knew to discover than there is nothing to live for/off of...
there will be no life..if there are no more "whys"?
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TameMe
Stranger



Registered: 10/24/05
Posts: 2,734
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7646697 - 11/17/07 05:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: That peacemaker thing is as old as the hills.
those hills are a lot older than the men who thought of that saying.
so are our ideas...even ours? or are they just a collaboration of made up words inspired by landscapes?
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
#7647210 - 11/17/07 10:41 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: That doesn't mean our work is done, or even close.
If you sit back now, content in your assurance to yourself that you know everything, you're nothing but a quitter.
Never said or implied this.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
#7647220 - 11/17/07 10:43 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you can't decide when things have reached ther limit or not.
Sure I can and I did. I'm giving my opinion here. I'm not saying it's truth. Like all of my posts it's my opinion and best guess.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: TameMe]
#7647226 - 11/17/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
TameMe said:
Quote:
Icelander said: OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.
your fucking choice and ability to breed has hardly any affect on the evolution of today's species.
yet...it still does have an impact on it.
your whole Kentucky thing...almost sickens me...
you..nor i...nor anyone...can tell where evolution is going...
it may not always be best to just breed.
your whole...if you breed you evolve thing...is shit wrong. a species may learn that during sometimes it is better not to breed (during time of low resources or food...come on now icelander give up the cynical mind set and be cool).
If I have to be cool like you then I think I'll pass.;)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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shakercee
Atheistic Mystic



Registered: 04/08/07
Posts: 606
Loc: Here and there
Last seen: 10 years, 11 months
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7647232 - 11/17/07 10:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Look at the number of soap operas, reality shows, games, etc. on TV and the proliferation of fashion magazines, et al..It does seem that everything important has been discovered and we are now concerned only with trivia.
-------------------- Pray, v.: To ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy - Ambrose Bierce Medical science has confirmed what the male world has known intuitively for millenia: that scratching your ass is a great aid to complex thinking. Its God's responsibility to forgive the terrorist organizations such as Jaish, Lashkar etc. Its our responsibility to arrange the meeting between them and god." - Indian Armed Forces "Hey Monkey!! Get Funky" - Tarzan and Jane
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: shakercee]
#7647346 - 11/17/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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That's the way it would seem if one only payed mind to such television programs, magazines, etc. Fortunately, if you read the news or watch an informational program every once in a while you'll find that we are making incredible strides in the fields of science and that every year as our knowledge of the universe expands so does our list of questions and possible answers.
I think for sure that in the last century there have been a multitude of new philosophies explaining the general nature of our universe. Rhysmonic cosmology, the universe as a hologram, the cosmic onion - Einstein's theories are now even in question. New information provides us with new paths for philosophical and scientific thought, and we're presently uncovering all kinds of new information that could never have been ascertained before.
We've just reached another benchmark in the field of genome research and cloning technologies. We're beginning to understand and manipulate the very genetic programming that makes us us! For sure, new knowledge is bringing forth new philosophical discourse.
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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