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Silversoul
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644005 - 11/16/07 12:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't need to. That's what I'm saying. "There is nothing new under the sun".
So then the same applies to evolution? Human beings are not significantly different from the earliest microorganisms?
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
#7644020 - 11/16/07 12:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644044 - 11/16/07 12:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.
I think it's rather relevant to the discussion. Ideas evolve just like species do. A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor. You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644066 - 11/16/07 12:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Prove me wrong.
LOGICAL FALLACY
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
#7644179 - 11/16/07 01:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.
I think it's rather relevant to the discussion. Ideas evolve just like species do. A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor. You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).
The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S
Lets get practical But give me a couple of their "new" discoveries and I'll see what I can do with them. Give me some of these brand new ideas that have not been said or implied by the past thinkers of early history.
Here's a great example IMO.Albert Ellis, Rational Emotive Therapy is based on one simple idea. He made it into a whole system but the system is contained in something that Epictetus said. "Men are not disturbed by things that happen, but by the opinions about the things." Ken Keyes (that FWG and I are so fond of) used Albert Ellis ideas without knowing they came from Epictetus. I can imagine Epictetus may have gotten them from his father. Anyway lots of folk think these are radically new ideas. I did, until I read Epictetus.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: elbisivni]
#7644187 - 11/16/07 01:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
elbisivni said:
Quote:
Icelander said: Prove me wrong.
LOGICAL FALLACY
Sigh, so true.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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daytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644230 - 11/16/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S
The ability to philosophize is a evolutionary trait aquired through self consciousness. In terms of evolution, it is what seperates us from animals. Philosophy is evolution, and it is evolving as well.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644278 - 11/16/07 01:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Icelander said: I don't know if the same thing applies to evolution. It seems nothing else is really like evolution.
I think it's rather relevant to the discussion. Ideas evolve just like species do. A new idea comes out of a previous idea, just like a new species evolves from a similar ancestor. You saying that there will never be any new ideas is like saying there will never be any new species(prove me wrong).
The goals of evolution (survival of the fittest) are not the goals of P&S
Lets get practical But give me a couple of their "new" discoveries and I'll see what I can do with them. Give me some of these brand new ideas that have not been said or implied by the past thinkers of early history.
Here's a great example IMO.Albert Ellis, Rational Emotive Therapy is based on one simple idea. He made it into a whole system but the system is contained in something that Epictetus said. "Men are not disturbed by things that happen, but by the opinions about the things." Ken Keyes (that FWG and I are so fond of) used Albert Ellis ideas without knowing they came from Epictetus. I can imagine Epictetus may have gotten them from his father. Anyway lots of folk think these are radically new ideas. I did, until I read Epictetus.
I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger. Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl. Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new. It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
#7644288 - 11/16/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Philosophy is evolution,
Wrong. Evolution has to do with survival until you breed and pass on your genes. There is proof that philosophy has anything to do with survival.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:41 PM)
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daytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
#7644290 - 11/16/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Another thing, you keep saying to mention an important new philosophical insight, but we dont know what qualifies as new. Its all in the past, unless you want us to come with a revolutionary idea off the top of our heads. So define your terms: when was everything important to philosophy discovered?
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
#7644307 - 11/16/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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1053BC to be exact. I don't know exactly.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:44 PM)
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daytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644308 - 11/16/07 01:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Can you philosophize without surviving?
Dude, everything you do is attributable to evolution.
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daytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644320 - 11/16/07 01:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
1053BC to be exact. I don't know exactly.
well then asking us to be specific is sort of a silly question
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: daytripper23]
#7644332 - 11/16/07 01:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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daytripper23
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644340 - 11/16/07 01:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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But you do not think philosophizing is an evolutionary process?
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Silversoul
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644345 - 11/16/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: OK in that sense you're correct. I'm here because of evolution and talking on the internet, but if I choose not to philosophize I can still breed. Just go to Kentucky and see what I mean.
Yeah, but if we're talking about people evolving, I don't think that's the place to look.
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
#7644348 - 11/16/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I already gave the examples of Nietzsche and Heidegger. Of course, their ideas are influenced by Schopenhauer and Husserl. Schopenhauer was influenced by Kant as well as Buddhism and Hinduism. However, what you don't seem to grasp is that being influenced or predicated on something else does not make something any less new. It is, in fact, the way that all new things come about(just as in evolution, science, technology, or any other discipline).
Oh but I do grasp what you are saying. I am saying IMO, everything important has already been thought out. I agree that people keep building on what the great philosophers of Rome and Greece and the Orient thought out. I'm saying nothing really important is being added to the basic principles of those past folk. It's all fluff to me in the sense that I can find the ideas in those old dudes and then take it on my own from there. Maybe other people can't do this but I can.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/16/07 01:54 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
#7644352 - 11/16/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't show this to Hue.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Icelander]
#7644360 - 11/16/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Icelander
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Re: Everything important has already been discovered. [Re: Silversoul]
#7644379 - 11/16/07 02:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Finally we are on the same page.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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