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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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How to find a chakra
#7629843 - 11/13/07 11:05 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just one idea, I'll post more as I think of them.
I've found one method of discovering a chakra that is full proof. This will be for the yellow solar plexus chakra. It's located where the breast bone splits, just below the chest. No meditation will be required. What is required is that you run to the video store and pick up an episode of UFC. Get them meanest, nastiest UFC fight you can find... and watch it. As you watch it, pay attention to how your solar plexus feels. It will "light up" over brutality, among other things. You will feel an "energetic vibration" emanating from your solar plexus, that feels quite good, (or bad, if violence sickens you). This is why people like watching violent sport. Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
Oh yea, another way to find a chakra without meditating. This will be for the orange sacral chakra, which is located in the lower belly about halfway between the belly button and the genitalia. Watch some porn. Notice how it affects the lower belly. Congrats on finding your sacral chakra.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



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Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7629937 - 11/13/07 11:21 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Just one idea, I'll post more as I think of them.
I've found one method of discovering a chakra that is full proof. This will be for the yellow solar plexus chakra. It's located where the breast bone splits, just below the chest. No meditation will be required. What is required is that you run to the video store and pick up an episode of UFC. Get them meanest, nastiest UFC fight you can find... and watch it. As you watch it, pay attention to how your solar plexus feels. It will "light up" over brutality, among other things. You will feel an "energetic vibration" emanating from your solar plexus, that feels quite good, (or bad, if violence sickens you). This is why people like watching violent sport. Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
Oh yea, another way to find a chakra without meditating. This will be for the orange sacral chakra, which is located in the lower belly about halfway between the belly button and the genitalia. Watch some porn. Notice how it affects the lower belly. Congrats on finding your sacral chakra.
quoted for having shared similar experiences.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7629944 - 11/13/07 11:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Hate to use rationality once again, but when people are watching combative sport events they will tend to hold their breath and tense their abs. Amazingly, the diaphragm is located right behind the alleged chakra.
Try again.
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Icelander
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7629958 - 11/13/07 11:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
You haven't proved anything. You say there's a chakra in there but I see no proof. I think it's more like you located a thingamajig.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Well then, as you are watching your UFC video (you mean you haven't went to get it yet?) I would suggest not holding your breath or tensing your abs, so that this function can be ruled out as a cause.
It is, of course, explainable. Holding the breath puts a damper on emotion. Tensing the abs causes additional sensation which can disrupt emotion. These are techniques people subconsciously use to keep themselves from getting too emotional.
I will try again once you have actually tried the experiment I suggested. No touche for you
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630001 - 11/13/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said: Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
You haven't proved anything. You say there's a chakra in there but I see no proof. I think it's more like you located a thingamajig.
Thingamajigs are chakras.
Chakra is just a word to describe what it is I've found. Thingamajig would work, but then NO ONE would know what I was talking about. I understand your point, but it is self evident. Common experience dictates the necessity for a name so that further communication can occur. Chakra is that name, though any name would do.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Icelander
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7630025 - 11/13/07 11:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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but it is self evident
So then please show us how to locate and feel the 6th and 7th charkas? If they are such a sure thing as you say.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630086 - 11/13/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I've already told you how to find the 2nd and 3rd. If that means nothing, what would be the point of giving you an exercise to find the 6th and 7th?
It would be difficult for a non-mediator. People live through their "lower instincts". People live through their lower 3 chakras. If we're talking about fight or flight fear, fucking or enjoying some chocolate, or just being cozy, secure and comfortable, that's all emotion which gets expressed in the lower three chakras. Although there are a few sorry souls who experience very little emotion, most people's lower 3 chakras are emotionally reactive, and thus, open enough for the exercises I provided to have a noticeable effect.
The ego likes to keep things this way because if a person begins to get their heart open (4th chakra) the ego starts to loose control. Once a person has gotten their heart open, either through meditation or life experience, accessing the upper chakras becomes much easier, and isn't so much of an effort.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Icelander
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7630137 - 11/13/07 11:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I've already told you how to find the 2nd and 3rd. If that means nothing, what would be the point of giving you an exercise to find the 6th and 7th?
I'm just not sure I believe there are charkas. I can show someone where tension etc. is in their body and then call it something and make a religion out of it by stating there are goals (6th and 7th) that are only attainable by the spiritual elite.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Silversoul
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630159 - 11/13/07 12:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I try to keep in mind the fact that the map is not the territory. Chakras may very well be an abstraction, but so are most other things we think are real. So long as I reap some benefit from chakra exercises, then who cares? I think people on all sides tend to take their perceptions too seriously.
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Icelander
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Silversoul]
#7630171 - 11/13/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I agree.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630586 - 11/13/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Well, I've already told you how to find the 2nd and 3rd. If that means nothing, what would be the point of giving you an exercise to find the 6th and 7th?
I'm just not sure I believe there are charkas. I can show someone where tension etc. is in their body and then call it something and make a religion out of it by stating there are goals (6th and 7th) that are only attainable by the spiritual elite.
I understand. When I first started meditating, it took 2 weeks of meditating every day to get to the point where I though, perhaps, there was something else going on other than imagination or mind created tension. I stuck with it because I previously had an experience which I couldn't explain, and it lead me to the chakra model. I REALLY wanted to find out what was going on, and I figured millions of people must be privy to something.
I can assure you emotional expression through the chakras is not tension. The more relaxed I am, the stronger the sensation. Tension can also be explained through the chakra model. Part of the mind is attempting to express emotion through a specific chakra, part of the mind is resisting emotional expression. So this conflict prevents the emotion from creating a pure expression, but the emotion isn't simply going to dissapear. Instead of a natural flow of emotional energy, the energy bleeds of into the physical body resulting in tension. If the body releases more emotion than the it can handle, tension occurs. This is why some people will cry when they get in a fight and some people will remain calm. Traditional meditation isn't necessary. Being an experienced fighter could be said to be a form of meditation. You deal with that energy enough times and your capacity to handle it grows.
There are a couple other things I can mention. About 6 months after I started meditating, I laid down to meditate. I had experienced my lower chakras in an undenyable way, but there was still some denial. In other words, I REALLY wanted to prove there was more going on than whimsical thought patterns. So I get my lower 4 chakras open, which was a personal best for me, and I just keep pushing it. It was perhaps the most blissful experience I'd had to date, and I was totally straight. My body felt like it was about to explode or something, and I started to get the idea that perhaps I should stop. So I sat up, and noticed that my whole body was vibrating, and I immedeatley broke out in a cold sweat. It felt very much like being knocked up on cold medicine during the middle of a bad flu, except without the congestion or scratchy throat. I felt quite sick. What I did was to get my chakras too open. I wasn't ready to "channel" that much energy, and it left me very sensitive. Later that day, I tried to meditate again, and about 30 seconds into it, a bolt of kundalini shot up into my head. Immediate searing pain and dizzyness. For about 30 minutes I though perhaps I had gone insane. I REALLY felt insane, like I knew exactly what it ment to be clinically bonkers. After a few hours of calming down, I realised that perhaps they wouldn't take me away, and I might return to normal eventually. It took about 10 days to feel normal again. During this time, I was too sensitive to meditate, but on the plus side I felt extremely good, relaxed in a way I had never experienced before.
Something else I can relate is my experience with skin conductivity response. Two electrodes I attach to myself that measures my bodies resistance to electricity. When I focus on a chakra, and manifest emotional energy, my skins electrical conductivity spikes way up. The more open a chakra is, the more the graph goes up. I can close the chakra and watch the graph descend. This in itself is proof that I'm able to manipulate emotional energy on the level of chakras, chakras being the -mechanisim- I'm using to express my emotions. They are not the emotions themselves, in the same way a faucet is not the water.
It IS all in the mind, but it's felt in the bodily emotions. Dealing with emotions (in the body) is directly dealing with the mind. Chakras are not physical objects, but this matters very little to the meditator. It's results that matter, and they go way beyond controlling a needle on a graph with the mind.
Anyway, a person can doubt chakras for 1000 years, or they can spend 2 weeks finding out. ANYONE can do this succesfully while still maintaining a critical mind. If someone truly has a desire to know, they will find out. It has nothing to do with being spiritually elite, and I'm about as far from religion as they come. For me, it's not about "making" it to the 7th chakra. I want them all equally open and balanced. The closer I get to this goal, the more self confidence I have, the more relaxed I am, the more emotional I can be without feeling shame or embarasment. I have more "energy", meaning that sensation that make one want to get up and do something as opposed to laying on the couch. One could argue that this is a function of calorie intake, but I have proven to myself that I can eat a normal diet and feel unmovitated. I can also not eat and maintain energy levels. I could wither away and still be energetic until the very end. Hunger is also an emotion, and thus is expressed through the chakras, and thus can be controlled. Of course, getting lots of exercise would cause me to wither away sooner than later, and I wouldn't dare attempt what Willie Brooks claims to be able to do, but it is what it is.
I dunno, I can pretty much debate any aspect of chakras in a logical way, but the ego is way ready to step in and prevent my words from having meaning. It's dominance is at stake. It's not an easy path. Every doubt and fear I've had so far has had to be confronted, and it's still a process I'm working on. I've been meditating three years, and am currently working on getting my throat chakra fully open. I've dabbled with the third eye, and can get it open realitively easy, but being able to do something while meditating isn't the goal. The goal is to have my chakras fully open while not meditating. Spending my time working on the 6th and 7th before my 5th is solid is putting the cart before the horse. But just like the ones before, it's only a matter of time before they're all open. What comes after that, I don't know.
I've worked very hard to get as far as I have, nothing elite about it. I'm just a normal guy, no different than anyone else. Again, anyone can do this, it just takes a willingness to put aside the doubt. I wouldn't suggest that the doubt be rejected, simply that one is willing to suspend their current paradigm enough so that it doesn't get in the way of finding out what there is to find. Most chakra meditations contain visual imagery. It's not ment to be taken literally, though there are people out there who believe they actually have "roots" or whatever eminating from their bodies. These are only thought forms, but they can be highly useful in cultivating the awareness to the point where the forms are no longer needed. Entertain the imagination until the imagination is no longer necessary.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (11/13/07 01:38 PM)
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Icelander
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7630613 - 11/13/07 01:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I'm just a normal guy,
God, what a fucking ego trip. Does anyone else see this?

Anyway I have meditated off an on for years and now I am on meds because it fucked me up so bad. My kundalini got stuck in my first and now I've got hemorrhoids.
Well, maybe I'll try it one more time.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rose
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630728 - 11/13/07 01:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Oy!
Ice.... you old fart... Silversoul, you young hippie... help me out here.
I am so sick and tired of people telling me how they can FEEL their chakras.
Chacras are STORIES... and like Aesop's, they contain lessons...
Yet, people here take them as literally as Fundamentalists interpret the Bible.
Each chakra is a state of mind. That is all. It is A philosophical point worth pondering... perhaps.
Perhaps... if you focus on the PHYSICAL chacra while you meditate on the MENTAL one it will help... you. But...
Chacras are not DOTS on your body.
Yet.... everybody says, "I feel them. I have proof! It feels like this! They're located HERE! On my BODY!!!"
Bullshit.
These people don't, "Get it"... perhaps they never will.
No offense, those of you who don't yet, "Get it."
Chacras ARE helpful... but they aren't what most people think they are... and people who spend their lives looking for them... never find them.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
Edited by Rose (11/13/07 02:30 PM)
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Rahz
Alive Again


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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7630808 - 11/13/07 02:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well, I am just a normal guy. Nothing makes me any more special than anyone else. I still have an ego, that doesn't make me special either... but I'm not sure where you're coming from. I was responding to your comment on "spiritual elitism". It's actually impossible to feel that way and make any real progress.
Humility and pride are the same thing, (yes I know I'll catch hell for that statement) not to be confused with pity and arrogance... though I appreciate my arrogance and pity in the same way I appreciate any other emotional pain.
I've never heard of meditation causing hemorrhoids, but it wouldn't surprise me. We all have different issues to deal with. Only you can fix that, and I will have faith in you even if it pisses you off
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7630925 - 11/13/07 02:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>I am so sick and tired of people telling me they can FEEL their chakras.
Feeling sick and tired could be a problem. Try having some compassion for yourself.
>>>>Chacras are STORIES... and like Aesop's, they contain lessons...
Stories are stories... like Aesop.
>>>>Perhaps... if you focus on the PHYSICAL chacra while you meditate on the MENTAL one it will help... you. But...
There is no difference. Again, chakras are not "physical", though they can be felt. If a person gets sexually excited, are they creating a physical object? Of course not. But something is "there" to be "felt" in a specific location in the body.
>>>>These people don't, "Get it"... perhaps they never will.
If you think chakras are helpful, but you haven't "felt" one, it is you who doesn't get it.
>>>>people who spend their lives looking for them... never find them.
Already found. Your belief is not required.
This thread was created for those who are curious. I'm more than happy to entertain debate so long as it holds my interest, otherwise I wouldn't have posted it here. But asking for help from your peers is a bit weak. I'm sure you have the mental acuity to speak for yourself without getting upset, right?
I would suggest conducting the experiments I posted at the beginning of this thread, then discussing, otherwise I might get the idea you just like to argue. The only thing that might stand in your way is your stubborn ego, and your need to feel superior to those who "believe" in chakras. I know that I am no better than you my friend.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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redgreenvines
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631162 - 11/13/07 03:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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oi
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OrgoneConclusion
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631239 - 11/13/07 03:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
I'm more than happy to entertain debate ... otherwise I might get the idea you just like to argue.
How does one debate without presenting arguments?
No one posts here unless they 'like' to.
Your statements sound like emotional noise as they do not make snese.
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Sophistic Radiance
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Isn't a "chakra" an abstract center of energy in the body? Not a specific organ, body, or system, but just a hub of sensation.
Why do we have to be so combative when discussing abstract concepts that everybody experiences differently?
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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Rahz
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Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Quote:
I'm more than happy to entertain debate ... otherwise I might get the idea you just like to argue.
How does one debate without presenting arguments?
No one posts here unless they 'like' to.
Your statements sound like emotional noise as they do not make snese.
>>>>I would suggest conducting the experiments I posted at the beginning of this thread, then discussing, otherwise I might get the idea you just like to argue.
Makes sense to me. It's a plea for staying OT. This thread is based on a few simple experiments. Play my game, and I'm more likely to play yours. Of course, people are free to post whatever they like.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: Isn't a "chakra" an abstract center of energy in the body? Not a specific organ, body, or system, but just a hub of sensation.
Why do we have to be so combative when discussing abstract concepts that everybody experiences differently?
Chakras are abstract energy centers as far as I know, but to say that everyone experiences them differently would be faulty. It's born out by empathy for the verbal expressions. Humans aren't so different from one another, though some people do describe less or more than the basic 7 chakra model. Whatever works. We have differences, but in my experience, most people who meditate will find that they have 7 major chakras. The combative nature comes from jelousy. People can't stand to believe that someone can do something they can't. They're just too stubborn to realize they can, so they call it elitism or delusion.
Pride will always be seen as arrogance by those who lack it. Sour grapes. They will be incredulous and see pride through their own eyes as a thing to be avoided. If someone has actual pride, and hasn't had direct experience of chakras, they would say I "might" be onto something instead of arguing that I don't "get it". This would be regardless of whether they cared to meditate or not.
It's all good to me. I respect people's right to feel however they want. I have compassion for my detractors, otherwise I become them.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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adrug

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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631602 - 11/13/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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"how to find a chakra"
I just retrace my steps and look for it in the last place I left it.
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Rose
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631678 - 11/13/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Was that the "Neener neener neener" defense?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Diploid
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631685 - 11/13/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aura healers and chakra healers have been practicing their craft under different names for centuries. In Japan the practice of energy healing is known as reiki. They just wave their hands over the patient and "feel" the energy moving through the chakras. The patient feels it, too. Great stuff but what’s really going on? How did so many different people independently discover energy healing? It must be because there really is energy that can be manipulated to bring about healing, right? Not necessarily.
In 1996, nine year old Emily Rosa tested 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has refused to be tested.
In 1996, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered $742,000 to anyone who could demonstrate an ability to detect a "human energy field" under conditions similar to those of our study. Although more than 80,000 American practitioners claim to have such ability, only one person attempted to demonstrate it. She failed by scoring equal to random chance, and the offer, now at $1 million, has no further takers despite extensive recruiting efforts, including a direct appeal to Dr. Krieger.
skepdic.com
Sorry, 44% is an F. 
You can ignore the results of this careful testing. It would just be more evidence that chakras are a demonstration of human self-deception at its best.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7632090 - 11/13/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Get them meanest, nastiest UFC fight you can find... and watch it. As you watch it, pay attention to how your solar plexus feels. It will "light up" over brutality, among other things. You will feel an "energetic vibration" emanating from your solar plexus, that feels quite good, (or bad, if violence sickens you). This is why people like watching violent sport. Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
I have a UFC re-run DVR'ed from last Saturday night, I will give it a shot when I watch it.... But usually while watching such sports, I end up all tense, ducking, and dodging like I am playing a first person shooter game....  Kinda~ like when I find myself holding my breath when someone in a movie goes under water.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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AlteredAgain
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632135 - 11/13/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source.
how do the testers assume that "feeling the energy" and "seeing its source" are not parts of the same process?
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Diploid
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They didn't assume this. They designed the test with the suggestions and cooperation of the 'healers'. The 'healers' agreed that seeing was not necessary to perform their magic.
These skeptics are not out to prove anyone wrong. They're out to find whatever the truth is. They're not cheating and have no hidden agenda. Most would be thrilled to be the first to show real evidence that this junk is real.
Unfortunately, every claim of magical powers that can be tested has been tested and failed.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632262 - 11/13/07 07:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Aura healers and chakra healers have been practicing their craft under different names for centuries. In Japan the practice of energy healing is known as reiki. They just wave their hands over the patient and "feel" the energy moving through the chakras. The patient feels it, too. Great stuff but what’s really going on? How did so many different people independently discover energy healing? It must be because there really is energy that can be manipulated to bring about healing, right? Not necessarily.
In 1996, nine year old Emily Rosa tested 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has refused to be tested.
In 1996, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered $742,000 to anyone who could demonstrate an ability to detect a "human energy field" under conditions similar to those of our study. Although more than 80,000 American practitioners claim to have such ability, only one person attempted to demonstrate it. She failed by scoring equal to random chance, and the offer, now at $1 million, has no further takers despite extensive recruiting efforts, including a direct appeal to Dr. Krieger.
skepdic.com
Sorry, 44% is an F. 
You can ignore the results of this careful testing. It would just be more evidence that chakras are a demonstration of human self-deception at its best.
Why would I ignore that? I'm a skeptic myself, and I've never seen anyone's aura or their chakras. In fact, without some direct experience, I will continue to assume most psychics are either being deceptive or are practicing "hot reading". With observation, you can tell whether a person is comfortable or not, whether they are gullible or not, whether they are loving or not, whether they have conviction in their voice, whether they have their senses about them. etc. All those qualities are aspects of chakras, though I wouldn't comment on auras because I don't really believe in auras as a distinct phenomena. To me, an aura is simply a chakras influence on the entire body. For instance, if a person looked extremely comfortable and cozy, you could say their root chakra aura was "strong", but it's just another way of saying they "look comfortable".
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, that's why I proposed an experiment.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632284 - 11/13/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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test shmest, proof shmoof.
All I know is that I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
They are vortices, or whirlpools of electromagnetic energy that we are close to being able to detect scientifically.
Most people's lower and upper ones are over active and the middle ones are stunted...
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7632293 - 11/13/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>But usually while watching such sports, I end up all tense, ducking, and dodging like I am playing a first person shooter game....
Cool, I'm glad someone's going to give it a try. Try to relax as much as possible and just be aware of the body. Would have been better if I had set up the experiment without revealing which chakra it would affect, but it will work either way.
Let us know how it goes. I expect your reaction will be quite strong, especially if you get into it like you say.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632302 - 11/13/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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All I know is that I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
Yet somehow you prefer to spend your time TALKING on Shroomery rather than go win the JREF million bucks.
Talk is cheap. Actually doing what you say you can do would be impressive.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7632331 - 11/13/07 07:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>Was that the "Neener neener neener" defense?
Bordering on it.:) I'm not perfect by any stretch. It's just when a "debater" basically craps on those who can actually feel their chakras, I don't really view it as debating, at least not the kind I like. Some admonishment wasn't out of order, and I don't think I'm that far off the mark.;)
I do the best I can.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632333 - 11/13/07 07:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most talk is cheap, some is cheaper.
Some things are strictly subjective that's why it's called Mysticism, not Scientism...
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632345 - 11/13/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is nothing subjective about:
Quote:
I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
If you can sense chakras in others, then this is an objectively testable ability. There is nothing subjective. If what you say is true, you can be a millionaire.
Why the reluctance to go win the prize?? I don't get it. What are you waiting for?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632348 - 11/13/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Most talk is cheap, some is cheaper.
Some things are strictly subjective that's why it's called Mysticism, not Scientism...
Have you read Technopoly by Neil Postman?
I suggest everyone here read it or at least check it out. It's quite relevant to many discussions taking place here tonight.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/13/07 07:45 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632518 - 11/13/07 08:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I searched high and low for 'shmoof' and 'shmest' and came up empty-handed.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7632760 - 11/13/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: It's just when a "debater" basically craps on those who can actually feel their chakras, I don't really view it as debating, at least not the kind I like.
I disagree with you, and I explained why.
If that is not debating, I do not know what is.
You don't have to like my reasoning... but don't take it so personally. I said what I did to make a point, not to make you feel bad.
You started the thread. I contributed.
You're welcome.
If you can't handle this forum... get yourself to the "Safe" one.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7633082 - 11/13/07 10:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Angry rants could be considered debating, but there are other ways. I'll clarify when asked, but I think my reply to you was fair enough.
I can take it if you can.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (11/13/07 10:28 PM)
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Kinematics
coyote vision


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Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7633536 - 11/14/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Long post
It doesn't seem like there are many people in here who want to hear what you have to say. However I'll let you know right now that you've made an excellent post, it carried a lot of meaning for me and I'm feeling motivated to give meditation more serious consideration in my daily life. You have appealed to me in a way like reading an exciting new book. 
Since you've started, how many times have you meditated a day, and for how long each time? Have you used psychedelics since or during and how has that affected your results for better or worse? I have done some research on meditation and what would you suggest for a beginner like me? Most of what I have read suggests 2-3 40 minute sessions a day for unmistakable, noticeable progress, or at minimum one 40 minute session daily. What goals have you set for yourself to help keep yourself on a path of sticking to your meditation sessions every day?
Thanks for your help and inspiration. Peace. Keep your head up, for every 10 skeptics there is someone who finds meaning in what you say. In my opinion that is worth it. Thanks. 
Quote:
Something else I can relate is my experience with skin conductivity response. Two electrodes I attach to myself that measures my bodies resistance to electricity. When I focus on a chakra, and manifest emotional energy, my skins electrical conductivity spikes way up. The more open a chakra is, the more the graph goes up. I can close the chakra and watch the graph descend. This in itself is proof that I'm able to manipulate emotional energy on the level of chakras, chakras being the -mechanisim- I'm using to express my emotions. They are not the emotions themselves, in the same way a faucet is not the water.
Is this something that would be possible for you to record on camera? The benefits of meditation are already scientifically proven, as well as physical changes of the brain over time and electromagnetic activity inside it (CAT scans of someone meditating, etc..) but having this sort of information to add to the plate would be neat and could give the skeptics just a little bit more to chew on.
5 stars for you my friend.
Edited by Kinematics (11/14/07 12:47 AM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7633545 - 11/14/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It doesn't seem like there are many people in here who want to hear what you have to say.
I think a more accurate assessment is that not many people in here want to keep HEARING about detecting chakras. We want to actually see him DO IT instead.
Is this something that would be possible for you to record on camera?
Of course not. It can't be recorded at all. If it could, he wouldn't be wasting time here TALKING about it and would be actually DOING IT to win the million dollar prize.
That he's still poor should tell you something: TALK is cheap. Actually DOING this would be impressive. Is there an echo in here?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Kinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7633581 - 11/14/07 01:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: It doesn't seem like there are many people in here who want to hear what you have to say.
I think a more accurate assessment is that not many people in here want to keep HEARING about detecting chakras. We want to actually see him DO IT instead.
Is this something that would be possible for you to record on camera?
Of course not. It can't be recorded at all. If it could, he wouldn't be wasting time here TALKING about it and would be actually DOING IT to win the million dollar prize.
That he's still poor should tell you something: TALK is cheap. Actually DOING this would be impressive. Is there an echo in here?
Let the guy answer for himself.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7633594 - 11/14/07 01:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't tell me what to do! 
Besides, I'm just trying to help by moving the conversation along to its predictable conclusion: everyone in this thread who claims to have a TESTABLE magical power will refuse to be tested and win a million bucks.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
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Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7633602 - 11/14/07 01:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Angry rants could be considered debating, but there are other ways. I'll clarify when asked, but I think my reply to you was fair enough.
Thing is, the post you are so upset about... the, "Angry rant" I made... it was a post where I agreed with the main thesis of your argument.
We both agree. You don't think you need to meditate to locate your chacras... and neither do I.
The only difference is; I don't think you need to locate your chacras in order to, "Locate" your chacras. 
You don't have to like it, but you also, don't have to pretend I gouged your eye out with a toothpick.
You just didn't like how I said it. Get over it, and read the sig.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Kinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7633615 - 11/14/07 01:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Don't tell me what to do! 
Besides, I'm just trying to help by moving the conversation along to its predictable conclusion: everyone in this thread who claims to have a TESTABLE magical power will refuse to be tested and win a million bucks.
That's fine, although my post asking about him recording the phenomenon he described is really only a minor aspect of my reply to him. There is undeniable benefit of meditation, why don't we just leave it at that? Even if everything he described regarding meditation is just in our head and there is no mysticism or paranormal aspect to it whatsoever, still does not cancel out the benefits of meditating.
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7633621 - 11/14/07 01:49 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
don't have to pretend I gouged your eye out with a toothpick
You bastard!
--------------------
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7633673 - 11/14/07 02:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is undeniable benefit of meditation, why don't we just leave it at that?
Because people in this thread are claiming they can do a lot more than meditation and their outrageous claims demand challenge. Not challenging these things has lead to untold human suffering throughout history.
It was lack of challenge of mystical nonsense that allowed the Inquisition to sentence Galileo to life in prison for stating that the Earth revolves around the sun and isn't at the center of God's universe.
It was lack of challenge of Iraq-WMD nonsense that has killed hundreds of thousands of people.
Nothing ever seems to change, and that's why nonsense should ALWAYS be challenged.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Kinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
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Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7633683 - 11/14/07 02:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: There is undeniable benefit of meditation, why don't we just leave it at that?
Because people in this thread are claiming they can do a lot more than meditation and their outrageous claims demand challenge. Not challenging these things has lead to untold human suffering throughout history.
It was lack of challenge of mystical nonsense that allowed the Inquisition to sentence Galileo to life in prison for stating that the Earth revolves around the sun and isn't at the center of God's universe.
It was lack of challenge of Iraq-WMD nonsense that has killed hundreds of thousands of people.
Nothing ever seems to change, and that's why nonsense should ALWAYS be challenged.
Somehow I don't think meditation is going to cause human suffering. 
I know what you're trying to get at here though. Nothing wrong with asking questions. I guess we'll just have to see what he says, although you seem to already have your mind made up about what another person does or does not know.
Edited by Kinematics (11/14/07 02:11 AM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7633704 - 11/14/07 02:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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But thinking you can do magical things even though you can't demonstrate them is part of a thinking pattern that leads to suffering. It's the same kind of thinking that has Creation being taught to hapless kids trying to learn biology in some backward states.
although you seem to already have your mind made up
I'm always baffled at how someone can come to the conclusion that requesting a simple test of a claim of supernatural powers is the same as having made up my mind.
If my mind were made up, why would I want to see the claim tested to see if it's true or not? To see if I'm wrong or not?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7633930 - 11/14/07 06:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I fail to understand how one can make a million dollars by sensing their or anyone else's chakra.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7634425 - 11/14/07 10:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: You started the thread. I contributed. . You're welcome.
I contribute to the toilet every day.... Weeeeeeeeeee.... I believe I should be thanked as well.... 
Quote:
Cervantes said: Thing is, the post you are so upset about...
Please please, tell me what I am mad about next.... I can't figure it out, and it has been driving me crazy all day..... 

>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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JoseLibrado
return


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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7634641 - 11/14/07 11:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think another way of thinking about the chakras is as emotionally connected to our thoughts. Proof of the chakras is hard to come by and the only way i realized i had them when i was skeptical was to go through an experience where i had to use them and used them in an intuitive way. Things evolve and they evolve in the way you are concious of seeing. This is the problem with trying to relate to others about this way of sensing the world.
Another way of seeing that this has some validity is to recall anyone who you felt uneasy around and just could not stand to be around, yet, you just met them and they have not done anything wrong to you. Another way is to recall any time where you have been scared and you get a splurge of feelings in the stomach...the old butterflies in the stomach saying comes to mind.
Actually, this to me helped further a belief that there does exists points of emotional focus that can alter our experience. I was laying in bed, getting really scared because i heard foot steps upstairs, thinking it was that ghost again. When i realized that i could bring those 'HOT sensations of fearful feelings from my stomach where they usually rest to the chest and my head,so the 5 6 7th chakras, it feels like a warmth that seems to float around your head. An example of this would be in attempting to recall a time where you were nervouse scared anxious and you have this hot, fearful feeling in your stomach. And next time this happens, to you, if it does...all you got to do to bring the energy up from your stomach is to focus on the thought "bring sensation up". This might not work if you focus on saying "bring energy up". Rather speak to yourself without words, try it now, you can think of things without words, it is much quicker(it helps to stifle preconditioned thoughts, that come to us in thought and not word thought! Also recall a time when someone you looked into the eyes of on the street just gave you this bad feeling in the gut or overall fearful feeling.
Another thing ive noticed is that you do not have to be compleltly conciouss of the chakras to use them. Which is why i encounter many people who intimidate me and i know really what they are doing. haha.
I think the trouble with this type of knowledge is that the chakras are like anything in the universe...connected to other things. And the phsyical body is no exception. peace, amigos.
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7634901 - 11/14/07 12:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Oy!
Ice.... you old fart... Silversoul, you young hippie... help me out here.
I am so sick and tired of people telling me how they can FEEL their chakras.
Chacras are STORIES... and like Aesop's, they contain lessons...
Yet, people here take them as literally as Fundamentalists interpret the Bible.
Each chakra is a state of mind. That is all. It is A philosophical point worth pondering... perhaps.
Perhaps... if you focus on the PHYSICAL chacra while you meditate on the MENTAL one it will help... you. But...
Chacras are not DOTS on your body.
Yet.... everybody says, "I feel them. I have proof! It feels like this! They're located HERE! On my BODY!!!"
Bullshit.
These people don't, "Get it"... perhaps they never will.
No offense, those of you who don't yet, "Get it."
Chacras ARE helpful... but they aren't what most people think they are... and people who spend their lives looking for them... never find them.
Each chakra is a state of mind. That is all. It is A philosophical point worth pondering... perhaps.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz] 1
#7634907 - 11/14/07 12:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Well, I am just a normal guy. Nothing makes me any more special than anyone else. I still have an ego, that doesn't make me special either... but I'm not sure where you're coming from. I was responding to your comment on "spiritual elitism". It's actually impossible to feel that way and make any real progress.
Humility and pride are the same thing, (yes I know I'll catch hell for that statement) not to be confused with pity and arrogance... though I appreciate my arrogance and pity in the same way I appreciate any other emotional pain.
I've never heard of meditation causing hemorrhoids, but it wouldn't surprise me. We all have different issues to deal with. Only you can fix that, and I will have faith in you even if it pisses you off
That whole post was my sorry attempt at a joke. I guess you couldn't see the twinkle in my eye.
You're one of my favorites here so know that I was just kidding.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/14/07 12:37 PM)
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7634925 - 11/14/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Don't tell me what to do! 
I've never seen this side of you diploid.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7634928 - 11/14/07 12:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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What a chaka looks like:
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Then I want to see all seven. (of the deadly sins)
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7635060 - 11/14/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just use a mirror.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7635090 - 11/14/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here is a screen shot from just over a year ago. It's a final image, so the graph is time compressed in the picture. On the top is a heart rate variance graph which shows my minimum and maximum heart rate over time. The time between breaths was around 15 seconds, so that will give you an idea of how long. It was probably around 15 minutes. Interesting to note here that basically through the whole thing, and especially up to just past the halfway point, my heart rate was even and consistent. I was relaxed and unmoving.

So I began focusing on maintaining an even relaxed breath and then started focusing on the yellow chakra. You can see how it ramps up, but once I started hitting the sweet spot each breath would cause it's own noticeable spike. It's like there's a feeling of resistance, but if you look past it, and just focus on allowing the chakra to open wide and accept (the spikes always come when breathing in) what's available, the resistance snaps, the energy turns cool, and there's no "friction". After the halfway point, I mostly forgot about maintaining an even breath and was just playing around. You can see how the heart rate variance becomes erratic, but the average doesn't go up or down.
I started out doing shrooms about once a month, sometimes more. I'm currently doing them every 2-3 months so there's a little bit of breaking away from that, but they're still beneficial.
As far as how often, how long to meditate, do whatever feels right. There's been constant change in how I practice, and I've gone for weeks without meditating, either because I just didn't feel like it or because I had some nice experience and backing off a bit was probably a good idea. I shoot for at least once a day, and push myself a little. Sometimes I'll lay down to meditate and say "screw it" five minutes later. Not being in the mood isn't always a good excuse. But all the rules are made to be broken. It's a balance between not getting too comfortable and not falling into the self improvement trap. Be curious and follow intuition. Buy a guided meditation, or take classes, read some books on spirituality, burn some incense. If you want to play with a pendulum or put some pretty rocks on your chest, hey, whatever. The only way to prove or disprove something for yourself is to do it.
I'll get to the video thing in my next post. It's just a biofeedback machine (which I found very useful). I dunno, plenty of people found this thread interesting enough. Thanks for the comments.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7635192 - 11/14/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Here's the thing. I haven't claimed to see auras. I haven't even claimed to be able to prove chakras exist, I simply posted a few experiments so that others might prove something for themselves. No one proved chakras for me.
As said, I'm as skeptical of psychics who make fantastic claims as you are. We are in no disagreement there.
The device I was talking about is a bio feedback unit. It's not going to win me a million dollars. I know that I'm focusing on a chakra, and drawing energy in, which is just a way of describing what it feels like... but the machine can't prove this, it just records the output. I am modifying my body's resistance to electricity, without raising my blood pressure, which is worth noting.
As I've already mentioned, there's no difference between the chakra and the mind, but they are "there" in my body and I can "feel" them. If I stubbed my toe, I wouldn't say my head hurt.
So if someone would actually get something from me borrowing a video cam and recording it happen, I'll consider it, but what's it going to prove? However, if someone else wants to play with a bio feedback machine and spend some time seeing what it can do, then they might be able to prove something for themselves.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7635202 - 11/14/07 01:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said: Ice.... you old fart... Silversoul, you young hippie... help me out here.
I am so sick and tired of people telling me how they can FEEL their chakras.
I'd love to help you out here, but the fact is that I often feel my chakras too(particularly my third eye and crown chakra). That doesn't mean that they exist objectively, but it means that at least for me, there is a certain sensation I get in these places which is associated with a certain attribute. I try not to attribute objective existence to any of my perceptions, but I can't say for certain that chakras have any less objective existence than anything else I perceive. As Husserl said, "All perception is gamble."
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7635206 - 11/14/07 01:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Icelander said:
Quote:
Rahz said: Well, I am just a normal guy. Nothing makes me any more special than anyone else. I still have an ego, that doesn't make me special either... but I'm not sure where you're coming from. I was responding to your comment on "spiritual elitism". It's actually impossible to feel that way and make any real progress.
Humility and pride are the same thing, (yes I know I'll catch hell for that statement) not to be confused with pity and arrogance... though I appreciate my arrogance and pity in the same way I appreciate any other emotional pain.
I've never heard of meditation causing hemorrhoids, but it wouldn't surprise me. We all have different issues to deal with. Only you can fix that, and I will have faith in you even if it pisses you off
That whole post was my sorry attempt at a joke. I guess you couldn't see the twinkle in my eye.
You're one of my favorites here so know that I was just kidding.
Doh. Well, I spent the first 10 months working on my root chakra, and actually made myself a little sore down there so hemorrhoids really wouldn't surprise me. Sorry I didn't see the twinkle.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7635265 - 11/14/07 01:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Cervantes said:
Quote:
Rahz said: Angry rants could be considered debating, but there are other ways. I'll clarify when asked, but I think my reply to you was fair enough.
Thing is, the post you are so upset about... the, "Angry rant" I made... it was a post where I agreed with the main thesis of your argument.
We both agree. You don't think you need to meditate to locate your chacras... and neither do I.
The only difference is; I don't think you need to locate your chacras in order to, "Locate" your chacras. 
You don't have to like it, but you also, don't have to pretend I gouged your eye out with a toothpick.
You just didn't like how I said it. Get over it, and read the sig.
I was fixated on your claim that no one feels chakras. I didn't feel gouged, but you're right. Thanks for the perspective.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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I fail to understand how one can make a million dollars by sensing their or anyone else's chakra.

Clicky >> James Randi Educational Foundation Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7635584 - 11/14/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I haven't even claimed to be able to prove chakras exist,
"Congrats, you have found a charka."
Well, which is it?
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Icelander]
#7636873 - 11/14/07 06:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Both. I claim that it is possible for someone to prove chakras exist for themselves. The whole point of the experiment was to do something that had a chance of providing direct experience, the only kind of experience that is worth a damn when it comes to spirituality.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7636918 - 11/14/07 07:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The scientific method is incompatible with subjective and mystical phenomena. Language is the most reliable tool we have to express our innermost experiences, and it is still severely lacking for that purpose.
I've experienced feelings of energy beneath my bellybutton, at the base of my spine, the pit of my stomach, my chest, my neck, and in my head during the types of moments that rahz described. Very intensely. I experienced them long before I heard about "chakras" or realized that those energy sensations happen to be located at the points where chakras are said to be located. I think there's veracity behind the idea of chakras having a physical reality. Just because science hasn't managed to figure out the physical nature behind chakras doesn't mean they aren't very real, and to make that assumption is, as I mentioned in another thread, ideological chauvinism.
Most groundbreaking scientific discoveries are made by accident. The fact is that just because science is the most complete, reliable, and definitive way to observe and manipulate our reality does not make it godlike. Scientists disagree with each other and science is no better equipped to answer the great mysteries of the universe than esoteric mysticism.
Perhaps someday in the future we will have a complete understanding of how the mind and the body function, and how and why consciousness is manifested. Then we can look to science to understand how we function inside. However, at the moment, all science can do is point out that surgically tampering with certain parts of the brain will hinder certain cognitive abilities. That falls way fucking short, thank you.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 07:12 PM)
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



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Yes, but every accidental scientific discovery has been rooted in reality.
And if it is confirmed real... spirituality by definition, will cease to be SPIRITual.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7637014 - 11/14/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Clearly, our definitions would have to change.
Language is based on the world as-is, not the other way around.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/14/07 07:26 PM)
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Kinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: The scientific method is incompatible with subjective and mystical phenomena. Language is the most reliable tool we have to express our innermost experiences, and it is still severely lacking for that purpose.
I've experienced feelings of energy beneath my bellybutton, at the base of my spine, the pit of my stomach, my chest, my neck, and in my head during the types of moments that rahz described. Very intensely. I experienced them long before I heard about "chakras" or realized that those energy sensations happen to be located at the points where chakras are said to be located. I think there's veracity behind the idea of chakras having a physical reality. Just because science hasn't managed to figure out the physical nature behind chakras doesn't mean they aren't very real, and to make that assumption is, as I mentioned in another thread, ideological chauvinism.
Most groundbreaking scientific discoveries are made by accident. The fact is that just because science is the most complete, reliable, and definitive way to observe and manipulate our reality does not make it godlike. Scientists disagree with each other and science is no better equipped to answer the great mysteries of the universe than esoteric mysticism.
Perhaps someday in the future we will have a complete understanding of how the mind and the body function, and how and why consciousness is manifested. Then we can look to science to understand how we function inside. However, at the moment, all science can do is point out that surgically tampering with certain parts of the brain will hinder certain cognitive abilities. That falls way fucking short, thank you.
Thanks for the additional input. I had my first meditation session earlier today, lasted about 20 minutes. If I can get comfortable and into a routine of doing this at least once a day I'm going to start extending out my sessions. There is enough freetime in my daily life that this shouldn't be a problem. I will just have to find a good posture and figure out my lighting (had the lights too bright).
So hopefully I can stick with it and get somewhere. Or nowhere, depending on how you look at it.
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