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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Quote:
Tchan909 said: Isn't a "chakra" an abstract center of energy in the body? Not a specific organ, body, or system, but just a hub of sensation.
Why do we have to be so combative when discussing abstract concepts that everybody experiences differently?
Chakras are abstract energy centers as far as I know, but to say that everyone experiences them differently would be faulty. It's born out by empathy for the verbal expressions. Humans aren't so different from one another, though some people do describe less or more than the basic 7 chakra model. Whatever works. We have differences, but in my experience, most people who meditate will find that they have 7 major chakras. The combative nature comes from jelousy. People can't stand to believe that someone can do something they can't. They're just too stubborn to realize they can, so they call it elitism or delusion.
Pride will always be seen as arrogance by those who lack it. Sour grapes. They will be incredulous and see pride through their own eyes as a thing to be avoided. If someone has actual pride, and hasn't had direct experience of chakras, they would say I "might" be onto something instead of arguing that I don't "get it". This would be regardless of whether they cared to meditate or not.
It's all good to me. I respect people's right to feel however they want. I have compassion for my detractors, otherwise I become them.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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adrug

Registered: 02/04/03
Posts: 15,800
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631602 - 11/13/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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"how to find a chakra"
I just retrace my steps and look for it in the last place I left it.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631678 - 11/13/07 05:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Was that the "Neener neener neener" defense?
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7631685 - 11/13/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Aura healers and chakra healers have been practicing their craft under different names for centuries. In Japan the practice of energy healing is known as reiki. They just wave their hands over the patient and "feel" the energy moving through the chakras. The patient feels it, too. Great stuff but what’s really going on? How did so many different people independently discover energy healing? It must be because there really is energy that can be manipulated to bring about healing, right? Not necessarily.
In 1996, nine year old Emily Rosa tested 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has refused to be tested.
In 1996, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered $742,000 to anyone who could demonstrate an ability to detect a "human energy field" under conditions similar to those of our study. Although more than 80,000 American practitioners claim to have such ability, only one person attempted to demonstrate it. She failed by scoring equal to random chance, and the offer, now at $1 million, has no further takers despite extensive recruiting efforts, including a direct appeal to Dr. Krieger.
skepdic.com
Sorry, 44% is an F. 
You can ignore the results of this careful testing. It would just be more evidence that chakras are a demonstration of human self-deception at its best.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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PhanTomCat
Teh Cat....



Registered: 09/07/04
Posts: 5,908
Loc: My Youniverse....
Last seen: 14 years, 11 months
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7632090 - 11/13/07 06:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Get them meanest, nastiest UFC fight you can find... and watch it. As you watch it, pay attention to how your solar plexus feels. It will "light up" over brutality, among other things. You will feel an "energetic vibration" emanating from your solar plexus, that feels quite good, (or bad, if violence sickens you). This is why people like watching violent sport. Congrats, you will have found a chakra.
I have a UFC re-run DVR'ed from last Saturday night, I will give it a shot when I watch it.... But usually while watching such sports, I end up all tense, ducking, and dodging like I am playing a first person shooter game....  Kinda~ like when I find myself holding my breath when someone in a movie goes under water.... 
>^;;^<
-------------------- I'll be your midnight French Fry.... "The most important things in life that are often ignored, are the things that one cannot see...." >^;;^<
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AlteredAgain
Visual Alchemist



Registered: 04/27/06
Posts: 11,181
Loc: Solar Circuit
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632135 - 11/13/07 06:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source.
how do the testers assume that "feeling the energy" and "seeing its source" are not parts of the same process?
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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They didn't assume this. They designed the test with the suggestions and cooperation of the 'healers'. The 'healers' agreed that seeing was not necessary to perform their magic.
These skeptics are not out to prove anyone wrong. They're out to find whatever the truth is. They're not cheating and have no hidden agenda. Most would be thrilled to be the first to show real evidence that this junk is real.
Unfortunately, every claim of magical powers that can be tested has been tested and failed.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632262 - 11/13/07 07:21 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Diploid said: Aura healers and chakra healers have been practicing their craft under different names for centuries. In Japan the practice of energy healing is known as reiki. They just wave their hands over the patient and "feel" the energy moving through the chakras. The patient feels it, too. Great stuff but what’s really going on? How did so many different people independently discover energy healing? It must be because there really is energy that can be manipulated to bring about healing, right? Not necessarily.
In 1996, nine year old Emily Rosa tested 21 therapeutic touch (TT) practitioners to see if they could feel her life energy when they could not see its source. The test was very simple and seems to clearly indicate that the subjects could not detect the life energy of the little girl’s hands when placed near theirs. They had a 50% chance of being right in each test, yet they correctly located Emily's hand only 44% of the time in 280 trials. If they can’t detect the energy, how can they manipulate or transfer it? What are they detecting? Dr. Dolores Krieger, one of the creators of TT, has been offered $1,000,000 by James Randi to demonstrate that she, or anyone else for that matter, can detect the human energy field. So far, Dr. Krieger has refused to be tested.
In 1996, the James Randi Educational Foundation offered $742,000 to anyone who could demonstrate an ability to detect a "human energy field" under conditions similar to those of our study. Although more than 80,000 American practitioners claim to have such ability, only one person attempted to demonstrate it. She failed by scoring equal to random chance, and the offer, now at $1 million, has no further takers despite extensive recruiting efforts, including a direct appeal to Dr. Krieger.
skepdic.com
Sorry, 44% is an F. 
You can ignore the results of this careful testing. It would just be more evidence that chakras are a demonstration of human self-deception at its best.
Why would I ignore that? I'm a skeptic myself, and I've never seen anyone's aura or their chakras. In fact, without some direct experience, I will continue to assume most psychics are either being deceptive or are practicing "hot reading". With observation, you can tell whether a person is comfortable or not, whether they are gullible or not, whether they are loving or not, whether they have conviction in their voice, whether they have their senses about them. etc. All those qualities are aspects of chakras, though I wouldn't comment on auras because I don't really believe in auras as a distinct phenomena. To me, an aura is simply a chakras influence on the entire body. For instance, if a person looked extremely comfortable and cozy, you could say their root chakra aura was "strong", but it's just another way of saying they "look comfortable".
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, that's why I proposed an experiment.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632284 - 11/13/07 07:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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test shmest, proof shmoof.
All I know is that I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
They are vortices, or whirlpools of electromagnetic energy that we are close to being able to detect scientifically.
Most people's lower and upper ones are over active and the middle ones are stunted...
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: PhanTomCat]
#7632293 - 11/13/07 07:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>But usually while watching such sports, I end up all tense, ducking, and dodging like I am playing a first person shooter game....
Cool, I'm glad someone's going to give it a try. Try to relax as much as possible and just be aware of the body. Would have been better if I had set up the experiment without revealing which chakra it would affect, but it will work either way.
Let us know how it goes. I expect your reaction will be quite strong, especially if you get into it like you say.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632302 - 11/13/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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All I know is that I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
Yet somehow you prefer to spend your time TALKING on Shroomery rather than go win the JREF million bucks.
Talk is cheap. Actually doing what you say you can do would be impressive.
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7632331 - 11/13/07 07:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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>>>>Was that the "Neener neener neener" defense?
Bordering on it.:) I'm not perfect by any stretch. It's just when a "debater" basically craps on those who can actually feel their chakras, I don't really view it as debating, at least not the kind I like. Some admonishment wasn't out of order, and I don't think I'm that far off the mark.;)
I do the best I can.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
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Middleman

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Diploid]
#7632333 - 11/13/07 07:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Most talk is cheap, some is cheaper.
Some things are strictly subjective that's why it's called Mysticism, not Scientism...
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632345 - 11/13/07 07:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is nothing subjective about:
Quote:
I've EXPERIENCED them and sensed them in others.
If you can sense chakras in others, then this is an objectively testable ability. There is nothing subjective. If what you say is true, you can be a millionaire.
Why the reluctance to go win the prize?? I don't get it. What are you waiting for?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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Sophistic Radiance
Free sVs!



Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632348 - 11/13/07 07:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Middleman said: Most talk is cheap, some is cheaper.
Some things are strictly subjective that's why it's called Mysticism, not Scientism...
Have you read Technopoly by Neil Postman?
I suggest everyone here read it or at least check it out. It's quite relevant to many discussions taking place here tonight.
-------------------- Enlil said: You really are the worst kind of person.
Edited by Tchan909 (11/13/07 07:45 PM)
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OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group



Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,414
Loc: Under the C
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Middleman]
#7632518 - 11/13/07 08:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I searched high and low for 'shmoof' and 'shmest' and came up empty-handed.
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Rose
Devil's Advocate



Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 22,518
Loc: Mod not God
Last seen: 1 year, 6 months
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7632760 - 11/13/07 09:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: It's just when a "debater" basically craps on those who can actually feel their chakras, I don't really view it as debating, at least not the kind I like.
I disagree with you, and I explained why.
If that is not debating, I do not know what is.
You don't have to like my reasoning... but don't take it so personally. I said what I did to make a point, not to make you feel bad.
You started the thread. I contributed.
You're welcome.
If you can't handle this forum... get yourself to the "Safe" one.
-------------------- Fiddlesticks.
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Rahz
Alive Again


Registered: 11/10/05
Posts: 9,230
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rose]
#7633082 - 11/13/07 10:28 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Angry rants could be considered debating, but there are other ways. I'll clarify when asked, but I think my reply to you was fair enough.
I can take it if you can.
-------------------- rahz comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace "You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi
Edited by Rahz (11/13/07 10:28 PM)
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Kinematics
coyote vision


Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 662
Loc: Colorado
Last seen: 7 years, 1 month
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Rahz]
#7633536 - 11/14/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Rahz said: Long post
It doesn't seem like there are many people in here who want to hear what you have to say. However I'll let you know right now that you've made an excellent post, it carried a lot of meaning for me and I'm feeling motivated to give meditation more serious consideration in my daily life. You have appealed to me in a way like reading an exciting new book. 
Since you've started, how many times have you meditated a day, and for how long each time? Have you used psychedelics since or during and how has that affected your results for better or worse? I have done some research on meditation and what would you suggest for a beginner like me? Most of what I have read suggests 2-3 40 minute sessions a day for unmistakable, noticeable progress, or at minimum one 40 minute session daily. What goals have you set for yourself to help keep yourself on a path of sticking to your meditation sessions every day?
Thanks for your help and inspiration. Peace. Keep your head up, for every 10 skeptics there is someone who finds meaning in what you say. In my opinion that is worth it. Thanks. 
Quote:
Something else I can relate is my experience with skin conductivity response. Two electrodes I attach to myself that measures my bodies resistance to electricity. When I focus on a chakra, and manifest emotional energy, my skins electrical conductivity spikes way up. The more open a chakra is, the more the graph goes up. I can close the chakra and watch the graph descend. This in itself is proof that I'm able to manipulate emotional energy on the level of chakras, chakras being the -mechanisim- I'm using to express my emotions. They are not the emotions themselves, in the same way a faucet is not the water.
Is this something that would be possible for you to record on camera? The benefits of meditation are already scientifically proven, as well as physical changes of the brain over time and electromagnetic activity inside it (CAT scans of someone meditating, etc..) but having this sort of information to add to the plate would be neat and could give the skeptics just a little bit more to chew on.
5 stars for you my friend.
Edited by Kinematics (11/14/07 12:47 AM)
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Diploid
Cuban



Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
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Re: How to find a chakra [Re: Kinematics]
#7633545 - 11/14/07 12:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It doesn't seem like there are many people in here who want to hear what you have to say.
I think a more accurate assessment is that not many people in here want to keep HEARING about detecting chakras. We want to actually see him DO IT instead.
Is this something that would be possible for you to record on camera?
Of course not. It can't be recorded at all. If it could, he wouldn't be wasting time here TALKING about it and would be actually DOING IT to win the million dollar prize.
That he's still poor should tell you something: TALK is cheap. Actually DOING this would be impressive. Is there an echo in here?
-------------------- Republican Values: 1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you. 2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child. 3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer. 4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
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