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InvisibleDiploidM
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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Why You Can't Trust Your Brain
    #7628526 - 11/12/07 11:51 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Clicky >>

Click to enlarge and see if you can read what it says.

The brain is a very powerful pattern processor. It can find patterns, familiar motifs, and pretty much anything you expect to find almost everywhere you look.

This is why you shouldn't necessarily trust your brain when it tells you that you've experienced something that can't be verified by people outside your head. Opening your third eye, astral projecting, or telepathy, for example.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628533 - 11/12/07 11:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Beliefs needn't be confirmed by anyone.

That's a pretty interesting pic, though.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (11/12/07 11:53 PM)


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7628551 - 11/13/07 12:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Maybe they should be. They're often wrong. It's because of beliefs that we're at war in Iraq. Other erroneous beliefs have cause untold misery throughout history.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628561 - 11/13/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Another demonstration of how our perceptions of reality can be skewed by our brain:



Click to enlarge, then read OUT LOUD as fast as you can the COLOR the words are printed in, not the words themselves.

This is called the Stroop Effect. It happens because recognizing colors is a more basal function than reading and speaking words and because experience has conditioned you to consider word meaning to be more important than color.

When your brain gets conflicting information (the word meaning doesn't match the color) your neural network has to make a choice. The two functions, reading and color perception, interfere and there's nothing you can do about it even when you're aware of the nature of the test.

If you can be tripped up by a simple psychology test, you certainly can be tripped up when you're... uh, tripping and think you've just spoken to your dead grandmother, or whatever.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Offlinetakeflight
retired
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Registered: 08/19/07
Posts: 82
Loc: PNW
Last seen: 1 year, 3 months
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628562 - 11/13/07 12:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In my own opinion :tongue2: -

Just experience, just be. 

Confusing thoughts and feelings with ones known rational or irrational is also "pretty much anything you expect to find". 

What did you expect to find?  Nothing, else you found it.

Seems hard to stay in this state, perhaps more of a balancing act. 

Perhaps it helps to unassociate a few of those programmatic events which trigger the "supernatural" or "the wind blowing".


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628571 - 11/13/07 12:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Certainly I can't always trust my brain. By the same token, I don't put any more trust in anyone else's brain.


--------------------


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628580 - 11/13/07 12:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wow thanks for that first post.

Doesn't the fact that I can read it mean that I can and should trust my brain's pattern recognition skills?


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: takeflight]
    #7628581 - 11/13/07 12:18 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There are two kinds of beliefs, really...


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


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Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7628972 - 11/13/07 05:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Doesn't the fact that I can read it mean that I can and should trust my brain's pattern recognition skills?

If your brain can interpret for you something that isn't really there (English words) does it makes sense to trust it to show you an accurate representation of anything else? Especially regarding something you may have an emotional attachment to, like mysticism?


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7628981 - 11/13/07 05:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The words are really there, they are just mixed up.

In my view, Mysticism is approached from the heart not the brain, yet free of emotion or attachment.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7629466 - 11/13/07 09:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Diploid said:
Clicky >>

Click to enlarge and see if you can read what it says.

The brain is a very powerful pattern processor. It can find patterns, familiar motifs, and pretty much anything you expect to find almost everywhere you look.

This is why you shouldn't necessarily trust your brain when it tells you that you've experienced something that can't be verified by people outside your head. Opening your third eye, astral projecting, or telepathy, for example.




I once posted here that I rarely read more than the first and last sentence of many posts before replying. I caught a lot of flack but no one could point out how my responses were off base and no one knew I was doing it until I stated it.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Male


Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7629471 - 11/13/07 09:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
The words are really there, they are just mixed up.

In my view, Mysticism is approached from the heart not the brain, yet free of emotion or attachment. 




Yeah right.:monkeydance: Except you don't see any "mystics" doing that.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleVeritas
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Registered: 04/15/05
Posts: 11,089
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7629587 - 11/13/07 09:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
In my view, Mysticism is approached from the heart not the brain, yet free of emotion or attachment. 




How, exactly, do you approach an intangible subject without using your brain?  Or are you metaphorically expressing the difference between reason and emotion--BOTH of which are functions of the brain?  If so, how would a "heart" approach not involve emotion?  :confused:

We interpret the world through input received by our body (senses), and our brain is the interpreter.  We use our imagination to envision what we cannot sense, and our brain does the imagining.  The dance between sensation, emotion & reason is ever-present, whether we are considering mysticism or pure logic.


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OfflineFocusHawaii
Keeper of theMagic Garden

Registered: 12/27/02
Posts: 1,013
Loc: Canada
Last seen: 12 years, 5 months
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7629856 - 11/13/07 11:07 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Wow thanks for that first post.

Doesn't the fact that I can read it mean that I can and should trust my brain's pattern recognition skills?




Read the words phonetically and you'll see it makes no sense. Just because your brain CAN make sense of it, doesn't mean it's correct.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
Posts: 6,697
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Last seen: 3 years, 16 days
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7630150 - 11/13/07 12:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It even is more difficult to find the spelling mistakes, like in "rdgnieg" :lol:
Parallel processing as a step towards a holistic understanding of a probabilistic usinerve :smile: :heart:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Veritas]
    #7632246 - 11/13/07 07:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Middleman said:
In my view, Mysticism is approached from the heart not the brain, yet free of emotion or attachment. 




How, exactly, do you approach an intangible subject without using your brain?  Or are you metaphorically expressing the difference between reason and emotion--BOTH of which are functions of the brain?  If so, how would a "heart" approach not involve emotion?  :confused:

We interpret the world through input received by our body (senses), and our brain is the interpreter.  We use our imagination to envision what we cannot sense, and our brain does the imagining.  The dance between sensation, emotion & reason is ever-present, whether we are considering mysticism or pure logic.




I experience the intangible by being simply being (aware of) it.

In my understanding, the limbic system is the seat of emotion, the heart is the seat of "Awareness" or "Being".

There is a kind of understanding that transcends logic, reason, and emotional response.

The brain is not the mind...


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7632266 - 11/13/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In my understanding, the limbic system is the seat of emotion, the heart is the seat of "Awareness" or "Being".

Are people with artificial hearts unaware non-beings? :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7632271 - 11/13/07 07:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yeah, Jean-Luc Picard has a soul, doesn't he?

This should really be called the Semantics Forum.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



Edited by Tchan909 (11/13/07 07:23 PM)


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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7632295 - 11/13/07 07:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not the physical heart itself, but that area in the subtle energetic body. Duh... :tongue:


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InvisibleSophistic Radiance
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Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7632303 - 11/13/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Dude, they haven't invented an X-ray that can detect chakras, so they must not be real.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleMiddlemanM

Registered: 07/11/99
Posts: 8,399
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Sophistic Radiance]
    #7632304 - 11/13/07 07:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Tchan909 said:

This should really be called the Semantics Forum.




Right, with a "SCIENTIFICALLY PROVABLE SPIRITUALITY ONLY" disclaimer.  :smirk:


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InvisibleDiploidM
Cuban


Folding@home Statistics
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7632327 - 11/13/07 07:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not the physical heart itself

You're a moving target! I can't keep up with your changing definitions.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


Extras: Filter Print Post Top
InvisibleSophistic Radiance
Free sVs!
Female


Registered: 07/11/06
Posts: 43,135
Loc: Center of the Universe
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Diploid]
    #7632340 - 11/13/07 07:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

heart (härt) pronunciation
n.

1. Anatomy.
1. The chambered muscular organ in vertebrates that pumps blood received from the veins into the arteries, thereby maintaining the flow of blood through the entire circulatory system.
2. A similarly functioning structure in invertebrates.
2. The area that is the approximate location of the heart in the body; the breast.
3.
1. The vital center and source of one's being, emotions, and sensibilities.
2. The repository of one's deepest and sincerest feelings and beliefs: an appeal from the heart; a subject dear to her heart.
3. The seat of the intellect or imagination: the worst atrocities the human heart could devise.
4.
1. Emotional constitution, basic disposition, or character: a man after my own heart.
2. One's prevailing mood or current inclination: We were light of heart.
5.
1. Capacity for sympathy or generosity; compassion: a leader who seems to have no heart.
2. Love; affection: The child won my heart.
6.
1. Courage; resolution; fortitude: The soldiers lost heart and retreated.
2. The firmness of will or the callousness required to carry out an unpleasant task or responsibility: hadn't the heart to send them away without food.
7. A person esteemed or admired as lovable, loyal, or courageous: a dear heart.
8.
1. The central or innermost physical part of a place or region: the heart of the financial district. See synonyms at center.
2. The core of a plant, fruit, or vegetable: hearts of palm.
9. The most important or essential part: get to the heart of the matter.


--------------------
Enlil said:
You really are the worst kind of person.



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InvisibleVeritas
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Posts: 11,089
Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Middleman]
    #7636521 - 11/14/07 05:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Middleman said:
Quote:

Veritas said:
Quote:

Middleman said:
In my view, Mysticism is approached from the heart not the brain, yet free of emotion or attachment. 




How, exactly, do you approach an intangible subject without using your brain?  Or are you metaphorically expressing the difference between reason and emotion--BOTH of which are functions of the brain?  If so, how would a "heart" approach not involve emotion?  :confused:

We interpret the world through input received by our body (senses), and our brain is the interpreter.  We use our imagination to envision what we cannot sense, and our brain does the imagining.  The dance between sensation, emotion & reason is ever-present, whether we are considering mysticism or pure logic.




I experience the intangible by being simply being (aware of) it.

In my understanding, the limbic system is the seat of emotion, the heart is the seat of "Awareness" or "Being".

There is a kind of understanding that transcends logic, reason, and emotional response.

The brain is not the mind...




So you are claiming that we have awareness which is separate from our brain?  The brain is not the mind, but the mind does not exist without it.  Are you saying that the physical heart is the seat of awareness, or that there is a non-physical, metaphorical heart which possesses an awareness that would continue if our brain was removed?

Sounds like mumbo-jumbo to me.  :shrug:


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
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Re: Why You Can't Trust Your Brain [Re: Veritas]
    #7636530 - 11/14/07 06:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

IMO it is mumbo jumbo. No brain = dead person = no posts about mind.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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