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c0_hush
Stranger



Registered: 07/16/06
Posts: 417
Last seen: 12 years, 4 months
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How to encourage taller growth...
#7628421 - 11/12/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Just wondering if there is any merit to this theory that if the FEA holes were drilled higher, instead of evenly separated all over, this might encourage taller, bigger growth since mushrooms will reach for that fresh air located higher. I was thinking about testing this out and drilling holes (still on all 6 sides) closer towards the lid (none in the center) and see how the mushies would react to this kind of a setup. There would still be holes on the bottom to help release CO2.
Any ideas, comments? The theory assumes and checks if location of FA is what determines the growth characteristics, but it's possible that it could be the source of light or even a combination of both..
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KaptKid
Spaced Pirate



Registered: 12/11/03
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: c0_hush]
#7628507 - 11/12/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think you would need to find a strain that grew tall. (genetics)
-------------------- Child of the 60's, Tripping ever since.
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takk
Stranger


Registered: 02/22/06
Posts: 736
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: KaptKid]
#7628543 - 11/12/07 11:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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In a passive system, you sorta need FAE holes on the bottom and the top for airflow through hot-cold convection.
Basically if you want taller shrooms, take away their light. You'll get lots of tall, lanky, anorexic shrooms, just like you seem to like em 
Otherwise, to get em 'bigger', you need to give them better a place to live and better stuff to eat until they decide they want to grow larger!
and not to go into mushroom eugenics... but having a good known-for-bigness isolated strain would have a huge impact on creating the result you want
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Pooter
Shroom Mongler




Registered: 02/12/07
Posts: 146
Loc: With waldo.
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: c0_hush]
#7628574 - 11/13/07 12:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Or, you'll get smaller mushrooms resulting from a lack of Air. They aren't really intelligent.
Anywho, test it and post results.
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xTorchesTogethr
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Registered: 07/25/07
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: Pooter]
#7628583 - 11/13/07 12:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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ok, genetics are obviously a factor... but u have to look at the way plants work too... phototropism... place a light over top of the growing fungi and they should grow toward the light u could place the light to the left and they would grow to the left or underneath them to make the them grow towards that... i would suggest just placing a light over top of a known tall species.
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MarlboroMan
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Registered: 05/01/06
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Quote:
xTorchesTogethr said: ok, genetics are obviously a factor... but u have to look at the way plants work too... phototropism... place a light over top of the growing fungi and they should grow toward the light u could place the light to the left and they would grow to the left or underneath them to make the them grow towards that... i would suggest just placing a light over top of a known tall species.
Mushrooms don't use light like that. I have had light coming from the side and they grow straight up. They are not plants.
-------------------- I'll make it to the moon if I have to crawl..
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Nibin
Getting there



Registered: 11/29/05
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But then on the other hand fungi aren't plants
How a mushroom body grows in size
So as you can see, while a plant grows towards the light and increases it's amount of cells as it grows, fungi don't so there will be a limit to the max size of the shroom which will be preset right when it is a pin
-------------------- Newcomers guide-----> For all things shroomy
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mycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias



Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: Nibin]
#7629316 - 11/13/07 08:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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A lack of sufficient FAE will cause the fruits to grow long, stringy and spaghetti looking from the excessive CO2. Additionally, most contaminates need elevated CO2 levels to germinate - much the same way our mycelium initially favored limited gas-exchange in their jars.
Finally, during fruiting, the cellular tissue of the pin grows in size through it's ability to retain water. Half of the job will be done for you by the capillary action of the mycelium colony within the substrate pushing all of it's available moisture forward into the fruits which is why we "dunk" between flushes. The other half of the moisture it gains is by directly absorbing the water-vapor out of the air through it's water and gas permeable cell membranes. During this time, it is critical to be able to maintain 90-100% RH for the ideal sized fruits.
But there's a trick to that as well. If the fruits have any condensation form on them, they will not be able to absorb the water-vapor through the tissue there. This is where a lot of aborts are formed. They literally drown from a little droplet of water on them. Having sufficient, FAE during and after humidification (whether that's hand misting or a humidifier running) goes a long way towards avoiding that problem...
--- However, assuming you're not experiencing the problems mentioned above a good deal of your issue will be related to the genetics of mycelium. If it's multispore, we can't really diagnose it further, every print/syringe contains hundreds of thousands of genetically compatible variants of it's donor fruit. Also, refer back to the trait characteristics of the specific strain and species you're working with. For example, while a psilocybe cubensis (b+) has a trait characteristic of 6-8" fruits, it's very common for strain to produce fruits in the 3-6" range - regardless of depth or quality of substrate. It's very rare to see the "monsters" sometimes touted on various forums with this strain...
As always, YMMV...
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Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude. I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected... - How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates - How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier - How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse ------------------------------------ figgusfiddus said: Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.
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Slimz
.-~*´`*·~-experience-~*´`*·~-.




Registered: 10/03/07
Posts: 3,588
Loc: Maryland
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: Pooter]
#7629327 - 11/13/07 08:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Pooter said: They aren't really intelligent.
Anywho, test it and post results.
LIAR !!!
-------------------- Lazy Drywall Tek (no powdery mess) This series will blow your mind and confirm what you already know to be true. The Pharmacratic Inquisition Best Thread Ever ! ! !
me if you have questions about lasers Although i may advise others in a general way regarding all types of mushroom grows, and may even post question from other forums about growing "active" mushrooms, i only grow non-"active" mushrooms and edibles. FeelFamily resident tech guru
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Sillicybin
Registered: 02/14/05
Posts: 2,134
Loc:
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: Slimz]
#7629418 - 11/13/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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The genetics will determine what the optimal fruit size is. Changing your grow parameters can make it more likely that you'll reach that maximum. Substrate depth and nutrition, available water content, and FAE are all important for this.
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xTorchesTogethr
Stranger


Registered: 07/25/07
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: MarlboroMan]
#7629428 - 11/13/07 09:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
MarlboroMan said:
Quote:
xTorchesTogethr said: ok, genetics are obviously a factor... but u have to look at the way plants work too... phototropism... place a light over top of the growing fungi and they should grow toward the light u could place the light to the left and they would grow to the left or underneath them to make the them grow towards that... i would suggest just placing a light over top of a known tall species.
Mushrooms don't use light like that. I have had light coming from the side and they grow straight up. They are not plants.
some forms of fungus do exhibit phototropism fyi...
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Swan Song

Registered: 02/08/06
Posts: 559
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I am pretty sure that besides nutrients and conditions, the only other variable that could encourage taller growth is substrate depth. I have no proof, but it makes sense that a tall mushie would need a stable base. If you have a sub that is 6" thick , it should easily support a large fruit, given good conditions and nutrition. Whereas, if the sub is very thin, it may not produce the tall thick bastards you are looking for, and if it did, they would probably fall over before before getting very tall. Again, just my 2 cents.
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mycocurious
Mike O. Kuerias



Registered: 02/09/07
Posts: 1,265
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Re: How to encourage taller growth... [Re: Swan Song]
#7630837 - 11/13/07 02:19 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lostinnc said: I am pretty sure that besides nutrients and conditions, the only other variable that could encourage taller growth is substrate depth. I have no proof, but it makes sense that a tall mushie would need a stable base.
This is one of those "sounds good on paper" things but physical science proves otherwise. Kind of like the mysterious phenomenon that causes warm water to freeze faster than cold water under the right set of environmental conditions.
In reality, substrate depth plays very little part in the size of the fruit. My single sector isolate of a b+ strain cubensis creates the same 4-6" fruit on 1.75" of substrate when uses easy-bake gladware trays as it does on 4.00" of the very same substrate within a 12quart dishpan...
Depth of substrate does influence the total yield by way of large number of flushes, but not on size of fruits. If you search the archives, I'm fairly certain I remember HippieChick posting an image one time of a real MONSTER fruiting on barely 2" of substrate...although I can't seem to track it down at the moment.
--------------------
Don't mistake my tone for a "matter-of-fact" attitude. I'm just presenting what I believe to be correct, until I'm corrected... - How Myco-Curious Prepares Coir & Compost Substrates - How Myco-Curious Builds A Bulk Humidifier - How Myco-Curious Builds An Automated Greenhouse ------------------------------------ figgusfiddus said: Keep in mind that inoculating or whatever in front of a flow hood won't help your bad substrate, your bad inoculant, your bad sterile procedure, etc. etc. etc. It's not a +3 flowhood of magic, it's just a tool.
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