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OfflineSummerOfLove
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Post-Castro Cuba?
    #7624026 - 11/11/07 11:12 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I want to discuss with you guys the likely result of Castro dying... will his brother take over? or will the US seek control once more... Could there be another revolution?


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: SummerOfLove]
    #7624732 - 11/12/07 07:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Neh... His brother will take over.

I just wish we'd fuckin open up relations/trade with them again. It's not 1960 anymore and communism isn't a fuckin' threat anymore. We should act like it. The U.S. embargoes countries like this in an attempt to undermine the gov't to force democracy upon it.... and all it does is screw over the country's poor people. What is the U.S. hoping for? Do we really think the poor will eventually get pissed off and rise up? NOT!

I foresee a "communist" Cuba continuing the way China is still "communist". It's sort of a communist/capitalist hybrid.

What's really funny is we traded with Chiina and Vietnam (two countries we even went to war with)... yet we refuse to deal with Cuba... a country that poses the least threat to us now.


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OfflineSeussA
Error: divide byzero


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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7624822 - 11/12/07 08:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> and all it does is screw over the country's poor people

It also provides the "bad people" in charge of those countries with an excuse as to why life is so bad... it isn't the dictators fault, it is the evil American's fault.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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OfflineBrAiN
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: Seuss]
    #7624919 - 11/12/07 09:25 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yea. It's a tactic that CAN work at first... (like we mentioned the other work.. look at Chile)

but If you've embargoed (sp?) them for 40+ years and it didn't work... try somethin' else


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: BrAiN]
    #7625095 - 11/12/07 10:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Arguably, embargoes have worked.

When russia collapsed, Cuba experienced a very bleak period....let's just
say a lot of family dogs did not fare well during that time.

they relied on the subsidization of Russia and now China and other
socialist minded partners in south america.

I've travelled in Cuba...in my 2 weeks there, I saw ONE new building
being built while something like 30 buildings collapse or are
demolished in Havana yearly due to a crumbling infrastructure.

their national transportation system is practically nonexistent,
the national highway that runs east/west through the country from
Havana basically disintegrates halfway through the nation.

some people live mediocre lives, but by and large there is tremendous
poverty and low living standards throughout.

culturally, this is a nation so entrenched within the paradigm of
socialism that I don't think they would initially fare well if Raul,
for example, decided that he wanted to expand free enterprise and
loosen central control.

Americans, Canadians and Mexicans will swarm that country and drive it
towards a Jamaican mentality with many have-nots loathing the haves.

that and the criminal element will accelerate faster than the common
man is able to fathom the change and take advantage of it.


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineSummerOfLove
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: afoaf]
    #7625648 - 11/12/07 01:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The most amazing part is that Cuba still has better health care and literacy rates than the US...


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InvisibleSFsorrow
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: SummerOfLove]
    #7625706 - 11/12/07 01:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Iraq had a higher literacy rate and a better education system compared to the USA before our invasion of the nation. A lot of Socialist countries have amazing social services for ever citizen (*GASP* How can that be?!) if the country is able to afford it (through money or manpower).

Raul ALREADY controls the government apparatus and this is common knowledge now. Castro just makes an appearance every once in a great while to reassure everyone that he is still alive but he hardly is in control of the nation like he used to be. I assume a lot of people within the Cuban Government will still listen to what Castro has to say simply because of the Personality Cult built around him but Castro is in no position for total say in what happens internally.
Cuba was highly dependent on trade with the USA (and a lot of US citizens had a lot invested in Cuba as well) while it was not nearly as close with the USSR in trade during pre-embargo times. The only thing the embargo did was destroy any economic influence the USA had over Cuba while forcing Castro to strengthen its political ties with the Soviet Union (obviously close enough after the whole Missile Crisis).
If the US has been unable to alter Cuba's government thus far (come on, the exploding cigar was a great assassination idea) I do not think we are going to be able to do much so long as we still have an embargo.
If we lifted the embargo at the same time Raul is wishing to modernize their economy, Cuba could easily have a boom like China in a matter of only a decade and with that would come an opening of the government. It is obvious the USA is not adept at nation building so I truly hope the US will only try the economic card in order to sway Cuba in the future.


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Offlinelonestar2004
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: SummerOfLove]
    #7625909 - 11/12/07 02:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SummerOfLove said:
The most amazing part is that Cuba still has better health care and literacy rates than the US...


:smirk:


--------------------
America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure"

We have "reckless fiscal policies"

America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership.

Americans deserve better

Barack Obama


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Invisiblezorbman
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: Seuss]
    #7625936 - 11/12/07 02:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> and all it does is screw over the country's poor people

It also provides the "bad people" in charge of those countries with an excuse as to why life is so bad... it isn't the dictators fault, it is the evil American's fault.




But darn it, it just makes us feel sooo good!

Like we're punishing evil doers or something.


--------------------
“The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.”  -- Rudiger Dornbusch


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: SFsorrow]
    #7626015 - 11/12/07 02:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

SFsorrow said:
Iraq had a higher literacy rate and a better education system compared to the USA before our invasion of the nation.






Really?

I'm not at all sure I believe that.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7626194 - 11/12/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

[erroneous]


Edited by afoaf (11/13/07 11:10 AM)


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Invisibleafoaf
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: afoaf]
    #7626227 - 11/12/07 03:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was looking through my pictures...I should see if I can post these
they are great...all really old billboards:

La revolucion es como un sol
Tu revolucion sigue firme
Con el ejemplo siga la marcha hasta pronto
revolucion somos todos
hoy solo es honrado luchar
patria o muerte como en giron
en el pueblo hay muchos
Che - comandante. amigo


--------------------
All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: afoaf]
    #7628250 - 11/12/07 10:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I wasn't talking about Cuba.

I was talking about Iraq, as was he.

I would be shocked if literacy in Iraq was anywhere near US levels.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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InvisibleSFsorrow
Is Born
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7628277 - 11/12/07 10:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have no idea were I found those figures but what I have found all pointed out that Iraq had a world class education system in the late 70's to the early 80's but it all fell to shit once the Iran-Iraq war of attrition started.
Guess I got Russia and Iraq mixed up or something (how the hell could I do that?) But alas that was hardly the point of my post.


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Offlinebeforetimetook
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Re: Post-Castro Cuba? [Re: SFsorrow]
    #7633035 - 11/13/07 10:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Raul will officially take the reins when Fidel is announced dead; and barring an unforeseen deification of a Cuban nationalist or the inclusion in a large socialist collective with a charismatic leader after/during Raul's reign when Raul expires we will see a reclamation of these areas by United States influenced leaders and it will eventually become the gambling and whore house it was before Fidel


--------------------
ain't no place I'd rather be


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