|
 OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
 
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
|
 Supporting the troops, but against the war? 
#7622219 - 11/11/07 02:31 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Let's try to keep this more about morality and not stray too far into politics.
To me this stance seems like timid waffling. What is your view?
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
 Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7622284 - 11/11/07 02:44 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
It's something I personally struggle with. I have several friends who are fighting in Iraq right now, so it bothers me when people disrespect the troops. At the same time, I don't agree with the reason they're over there, and wish we would pull out of that country. I guess for me "supporting" the troops is just a matter of praying for their safety and well-being. I'm not sure where I would stand if the war hadn't taken on such a personal dimension for me. I realize there is no military draft right, so the soldiers are all responsible for being there. Most of my friends who are over there joined for financial reasons. A couple of them do actually support the political objectives of the war, so I can't just portray them as victims of circumstance. What I can say is I know all of them, even those whose politics I disagree with, are good people, and pray that they all return home safely.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622298 - 11/11/07 02:49 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
I guess for me "supporting" the troops is just a matter of praying for their safety and well-being.
And too bad about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed?
Quote:
What I can say is I know all of them, even those whose politics I disagree with, are good people...
I suppose because they had friends and were likable to some, that those working the Holocaust ovens were good people, too.
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7622308 - 11/11/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
And too bad about the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians killed?
Of course not. I pray for peace every day. I wish you would stop putting words in people's mouths.
Quote:
I suppose because they had friends and were likable to some, that those working the Holocaust ovens were good people, too.
It appears Godwin has reared his ugly head early in this thread. If you would kindly avoid such straw men, I'd prefer to have a civil discussion for once.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7622309 - 11/11/07 02:52 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
OrgoneConclusion said:
Let's try to keep this more about morality and not stray too far into politics.
To me this stance seems like timid waffling. What is your view?
The troops made the choice to support the war by going. It's their business now. They get my support through my tax dollars and that's all they need from me.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
Edited by Icelander (11/11/07 02:53 PM)
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622339 - 11/11/07 03:00 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Quote:
Of course not. I pray for peace every day. I wish you would stop putting words in people's mouths.
A question is not a quote. 
What is the point in wishing and praying? Reality does not bend to mere internal thoughts.
Supporting a warrior AND praying for peace seems highly schizophrenic to this poster.
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7622347 - 11/11/07 03:02 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Would you prefer I cut off all ties to them and turn a blind eye to them should they be killed or wounded?
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622349 - 11/11/07 03:03 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Why not?
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Icelander]
#7622353 - 11/11/07 03:04 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Because they're my friends, and I still care about them.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622363 - 11/11/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
One should choose their friends wisely.
I have no friends that support violence when not in self defense.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Icelander]
#7622365 - 11/11/07 03:09 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I guess I'm not one to believe that believing the same things is a prerequisite of friendship.
--------------------
|
Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622369 - 11/11/07 03:10 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
When it comes to violence and harm to others I am. Your choice.
--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.
" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.
With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Icelander]
#7622377 - 11/11/07 03:12 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Well, considering it's currently an occupation trying to stabilize the region(or so they've been led to believe), I don't think it's so much a matter of supporting aggressive violence. And like I said, most of them just signed up for financial reasons.
--------------------
|
OrgoneConclusion
Blue Fish Group
Registered: 04/01/07
Posts: 45,441
Loc: Under the C
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622389 - 11/11/07 03:16 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
Many decades ago, a good friend started some shit in a bar. He was being an asshole and got in over his head. I refused to back him up merely because he was a friend.
Had he been jumped merely getting onto his car, I would have been by his side.
Another lifelong friend turned out to be a pedophile. I supported him through the trial and subsequent jail time because he made an effort to turn his life around. When got out and started rebuilding homes, I visited him for a week. Then he started cruising the junior high and I ended a 25 year friendship.
--------------------
|
Silversoul
Rhizome
Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
#7622399 - 11/11/07 03:20 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
If my friends showed signs of bloodlust, I might take your point to heart. But of all the friends I have who are serving, they are at worst naive about what their government tells them, and at best trying to make a living when they have nothing else going for them.
--------------------
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622736 - 11/11/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I agree Silversoul. Many of these soldiers are so naive about what they are doing that they are no better than children in their understanding, and they are manipulated by their government who they were programmed to trust. Sometimes that programming falls through, and the person starts to take responsibility for themselves, but usally it is a gradual and grudging process. I served as an infantryman in the Army myself and I was very naive. I was so invested in my beliefs that it took another 20 years to accept that I had been wrong about many of them. I used to preach that people should accept responsibility for their actions, and I judged those that in my estimation did not, but I have come to understand that we can only be where we are at, so many people are left unable to accept responsibility. They are not bad or evil...just unable to grow beyond a certain point at that time. Some people realize this about themselves...others never do. For myself I sympathize and wish these people well, but I do not support their actions.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Huehuecoyotl
Fading Slowly
Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 10,689
Loc: On the Border
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Icelander]
#7622746 - 11/11/07 05:13 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I don't see compassion as a conditional thing. I don't have to agree with another person, but it is in my best interests to see all other people with compassion and understanding.
--------------------
"A warrior is a hunter. He calculates everything. That's control. Once his calculations are over, he acts. He lets go. That's abandon. A warrior is not a leaf at the mercy of the wind. No one can push him; no one can make him do things against himself or against his better judgment. A warrior is tuned to survive, and he survives in the best of all possible fashions." ― Carlos Castaneda
|
Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
 Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Silversoul]
#7622912 - 11/11/07 05:59 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
I pray for peace every day.
Peace will come to the Earth if the human players making war decide to make it so. If God intervenes and brings peace to the Earth, he must necessarily change the human players.
What happens then to the free will most believers (and you, I think) insist God has given us?
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
Diploid
Cuban
Registered: 01/09/03
Posts: 19,274
Loc: Rabbit Hole
|
 Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Diploid]
#7622950 - 11/11/07 06:08 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
To be fair to SS's friends, signing up for military service in pre-Bush days would well have been with the then-justified belief that the US military was primarily a defensive force.
Bush changed the rules in the middle of that game and I think a lot of the soldiers currently deployed in offensive struggles never counted on that.
Of course, they still could have refused to go participate in what they believe to be an unjust offensive war and taken their lumps in a military prison. 
--------------------
Republican Values:
1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.
4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.
|
 NiamhNyx
I'm NOT a 'he'
Registered: 09/01/02
Posts: 3,198
Last seen: 14 years, 10 months
|
Re: Supporting the troops, but against the war? [Re: Diploid]
#7622980 - 11/11/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 5 months ago) |
|
|
A lot of people who end up in the military are looking for a way out of extreme poverty. They are uneducated and thus easily manipulated. They believe patriotic propaganda because that's all they've been exposed to. I can't hate someone for being in that sort of position, and on those grounds I think I can "support the troops and be against the war."
Although at the same time, it annoys me when people get all snivelly about the US losing 2 or 3 soldiers in a battle against insurgents, when the Iraqi's have lost thousands of people, both fighters and civilians. They have had to endure an incredible amount of suffering, far beyond the loss of a few professional killers. The war is on thier soil, and if anyone deserves compassion it is them.
I suppose any support I might have for "the troops" lies in the fact that I don't think they should be over there. They wouldn't get shot if they were at home with thier families where they belong.
|
|
Threaded
Previous
Index
Next
Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order 
Red Vein Kratom 
Bulk Cannabis Seeds 
North Spore Mushroom Grow Kits & Cultivation Supplies
Edit 
Reply 
1 2 all )
MrBump
MANNALORD
Swami
Droz
RebelSteve33
Shroomerious