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ChiefGreenLeaf

Registered: 01/11/07
Posts: 1,596
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I am not a person either FUCK UNIVERSITY. I AM NOT A PERSON I AM AN ANIMAL. why can't we go back to simpler times I AM SO STRESSED OUT I DONT EVEN NO WHAT TO DO.
sorry for the rant, just venting...
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TheLightIsOn
In the worst ofall your fears


Registered: 08/10/05
Posts: 358
Last seen: 12 years, 2 months
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Stop thinking to much. Not everything in life has some extraordinary answer.
-PEACE
-------------------- AFOAF's current multi-grow log "In the privince of the mind, what is believed to be true is true or becomes true, within limits to be found experientially and experimentally. These limits are further beliefs to be transcended. In the province of the mind, there are no limits." -John C. Lilly
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lifeson2112
Stranger

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 36
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Thanks for responding you guys. I really did need a kick in the ass and some kind words of what's on the other side. Sorry for being such a dick. I want to be a better person. I know I have a long way to go, but I did feel like a good person for at least a short while this past few days. Anyway. You guys inspired me. I was having a hard time writing this little paper for philosophy but the spirit of this board kinda helped me see another side of things. Here it is if you want to read it. It's my first paper that I actually enjoyed writing:
I think that the Ideas of empiricism and rationalism are interesting ideas. How do I go about learning things? Should I study a lot? Should I not worry about it and learn from experience? Should I just be content with what comes my way in life and realize that it all ends up the same in the end? I especially am concerned with this idea, because I have wondered what makes people smart and what makes people stupid. Are people stupid because they don’t gain enough empirical experience? Are people smart because they are born with more intuition and innate ideas? Reading chapter 6 has made me think that rationalism is the way to go when trying to obtain any true knowledge. When you rely on experience you can get biased opinions because experience is emotionally involved. But that also brings up the question as to whether emotion has any purpose in obtaining knowledge. If we feel that something is true, does it make it true? I don’t think the emotion makes it true, but maybe when we realize how true something is we get satisfying emotions from our brain to let us know that what we have learned is true. The truth is also easier to keep in our brain, because if it is true, it shouldn’t require any more effort in our minds to make it stay true. True things should be true outside of our opinions. That got a little off topic, I know, but I have never been good at keeping my thoughts in order. Anyway, I was talking about how I thought that emotion may be something that could affect our quest for knowledge when taking the empirical route, but decided that maybe emotions are the result of finding truth after some internal struggle. But that doesn’t account for all emotions. What about love? Love has made people do irrational things, or there have been many who have blamed their actions on love… Anyway, I still believe that experience is full of other people’s faulty ideas, traditions, and again, the questionability of how reliable our senses are. One of my first encounters with rationalism and internal experience beyond my senses was when I was in my 9th grade geometry class. We were talking about points and lines and I was trying to grasp the concept of a point being infinitely small. Up to that moment I have always been able to see points. They were just dots I could make with my pen or pencil. They never developed into a concept until I was forced to think about it. The idea was presented to me through my teacher, but my understanding it came from thinking about it. I couldn’t comprehend it any other way, because I couldn’t draw an infinitely small point or an endless line or count all the numbers between 1 and 2. So I think that experience has some definite importance. Without it we wouldn’t be alive, not to my understanding of the concept of being alive. I don’t know that I wouldn’t have stumbled across that concept without the experience of formal education, because I have come to other internal conclusions seemingly outside any other influence, but I think it played an important role and definitely sped up the process and brought about the crisis that made me need to develop the concept. So maybe experiences ignite our need to use innate knowledge. Everything we see is there, or at the very least it exists in our mind. I don’t think anyone could argue that. We can conceive it, but it can also exist without any meaning. Things can simply exist. I have had times in life where I could see things, but they didn’t mean anything to me. I can’t explain it, it just was there. I’m killing a dead horse, but things exist outside their meaning. Nothing has any meaning unless we internally make something out of it. So as a piece to the puzzle in my quest for a conclusion to this paper, I think that both play an important role in understanding the world and obtaining knowledge. Without some innate functions in the brain we wouldn’t be able to process the external world and they would just exist. The function of sight alone is a function. I’m not sure the exact definition of innate but I think it should include the idea of sight. Sight can’t exist without the concept and idea of sight. The brain has to understand it and have the programming to be able to interact with it, so in that sense I firmly believe that we are born with at least some innate ideas and can make what we want of them from there. Also without experience we wouldn’t have anything to test our innate functions and developed concepts on. Life is a great thing, and I am just starting to realize the amazingness of it all.
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mushroomplume
Stranger

Registered: 10/16/06
Posts: 1,395
Last seen: 14 years, 19 days
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7628176 - 11/12/07 10:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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lifeson,
Your last post was a little too long.
Do not take this advice lightly, this comes from years of experience. Start smoking pot, meditating, eating Kashi cereal, and listening to The Grateful Dead. I gurantee that you're problems will start to fade away or not seem quite as imporant. I think you're just a little too inside of yourself right now.
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dirtworshipper
Sitting in the heart cave



Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 2,060
Loc: at The Guru's lotus feet
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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i can't tell if that was a joke or not, honestly
but if it is a joke, that's a damn good one, my friend
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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison
Edited by dirtworshipper (11/12/07 10:17 PM)
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lifeson2112
Stranger

Registered: 10/22/06
Posts: 36
Last seen: 15 years, 3 months
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Oliveplume, I have smoked pot for years and decided to quit. I started getting into my mental fuck while smoking pot. I felt like I was going crazy and pot didn't help much in the long run. I took shrooms once and that's what made me realize what a waste it was for me to be doing at the time. And dirtworshipper, what do you mean? In what way does it seem like a joke? I was feeling ok for awhile there, but I have those in waves, and when I look back on them I feel like a fool. I was talking to this girl today and it felt like I was dreaming. I can't get much inflection out of my voice. I feel dead. As I was driving home today I was talking to myself about how fucking crazy I am. I am losing it. But I don't really care too much. I don't think there is anything I can do. I've been down this road too many times. It's all a cruel trick. Everytime I think I have broke through, my brain has to beat me back to reality. I don't know what I'd do if I had a friend. I don't care enough. I went to a church activity today and tried to socialize with some girls and I don't feel shit. Love is dead to me. Right now at least. I can't get anything lasting. My dad asked me today if I was thinking about suicide and I told him 'maybe'. I think the more comfortable my family gets with the fact that I don't need to be around the better things will be on them if I do go. The only person I would miss is my little sister. She was the only one who kept me from doing it months ago. She's too little to remember me if I left now, and I wouldn't want her to grow up knowing me as some bitter middle aged fuck who couldn't marry and no longer recognizes the world and people around him. I'd rather her remember me as someone who used to love her and keep those good memories. I read a good quote the other day that has had me thinking seriously:
"Leaders should lead as far as they can and then vanish. Their ashes should not choke the fire they have lit." - HG Wells
I really think that suicide is a natural part of human life. Think about it. There are so many people in this world. I understand that there are many of you out there who really enjoy life and would never dream of leaving or would ever want to see someone go. I used to feel that way. Times are changing though and I see that this will maybe bring about some good. I had my run and it's time for me to stop spoiling the ride for those who know how to live.
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GGreatOne234
Stranger
Registered: 12/23/99
Posts: 8,946
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7628601 - 11/13/07 12:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Dude, go see a therapist, honestly.
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dirtworshipper
Sitting in the heart cave



Registered: 05/12/07
Posts: 2,060
Loc: at The Guru's lotus feet
Last seen: 3 years, 3 months
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7628935 - 11/13/07 05:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh, I wasn't talking to you when I was talking then. I was talking to oliverplume.
But... I sincerely don't think suicide is a natural part of our existence.
Quote:
it's time for me to stop spoiling the ride for those who know how to live.
It seems like you're slipping back into that self-pity. You're not spoiling anything for anyone. Just realize that.
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“You've got as many lives as you like, and more, even ones you don't want.” - George Harrison
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WhiskeyClone
Not here



Registered: 06/25/01
Posts: 16,509
Loc: Longitudinal Center of Canada ...
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7629564 - 11/13/07 09:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lifeson2112 said:
I had my run and it's time for me to stop spoiling the ride for those who know how to live.
That's a myth! I don't know anybody who "knows how to live". Nobody has it all figured out. I think some of us are better at faking it than others though. I truly believe almost everybody is a mess inside, at least somewhat. Life is hard for everyone. Just don't convince yourself that you're different in that sense.
I also get frustrated with the apparent ease that other people cruise through life, following their dreams like it happens automatically. But I'm just fooling myself when I think like that. It's an illusion. Grass-is-greener syndrome. Nobody is on top of it all.
Good luck sir
-------------------- Welcome evermore to gods and men is the self-helping man. For him all doors are flung wide: him all tongues greet, all honors crown, all eyes follow with desire. Our love goes out to him and embraces him, because he did not need it. ~ R.W. Emerson, "Self-Reliance"
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sadspacemonkey
!universe!


Registered: 11/01/06
Posts: 376
Last seen: 6 years, 11 months
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7629702 - 11/13/07 10:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lifeson2112 said: The only person I would miss is my little sister. She was the only one who kept me from doing it months ago. She's too little to remember me if I left now, and I wouldn't want her to grow up knowing me as some bitter middle aged fuck who couldn't marry and no longer recognizes the world and people around him. I'd rather her remember me as someone who used to love her and keep those good memories.
You care about your little sister. You can use that as a source of strength. Right now, it seems you are using her existence as yet another reason why the world would be better off without you, which is not the case. There is a good chance she WILL remember you- I know people who have memories from when they were babies. If you go, she will remember only flashes of you and the fact you chose to leave everything behind, including her. It doesn't have to be that way. I'm sure she'd rather have a "middle aged fuck" than no brother at all - I have an older brother myself and that's how I feel.
Quote:
I really think that suicide is a natural part of human life. Think about it. There are so many people in this world. I understand that there are many of you out there who really enjoy life and would never dream of leaving or would ever want to see someone go. I used to feel that way. Times are changing though and I see that this will maybe bring about some good. I had my run and it's time for me to stop spoiling the ride for those who know how to live.
Right now it seems that the thought of suicide is a comfort to you. I've been there- when nothing else made sense except the thought of dying. There is nothing wrong with that in itself. You sound depressed and disconnected, so of course the thought of ending it all will be a comfort to you. It's sensible in that regard, but I would encourage you to not cling to this method of coping too tightly. No matter what arguments you come up with, suicide is a destructive act that WILL cause pain to others in some shape or form. It will not be a sacrifice, it will not make the lives of "happy" people easier, it will not help the world in any shape or form. If you need to think about suicide, fine, but I can tell you from experience that you CAN stop it if you're ready, if you really want to- it will be hard and you will probably need to draw strength from some outside source...but you can do it. The longer you prolong your turnaround, the harder it will be to heal. I'm not sure what exactly you need since every person is different- what helped me was a couple of very kind patient friends, one very good therapist, mushrooms, a lot of hard work and research on my part, and eventually getting reconnected with the things that made me happy before that dark period (drawing, music, etc...) I know it seems hopeless now, but there's always a way out. If it's hard- well you'll be that much stronger once you defeat the monster. Try and find any little tiny advantage you may have now- that little possibility you can work with and build on.
As for reading..someone on this site linked me to this website that I really enjoyed: http://freespace.virgin.net/sarah.peter.nelson/lazyman/lazyman1.html
Also, I really got a lot out this, though the first time I read it, I didn't quite "get it" but years later it blew me away http://www.atmajyoti.org/gi_bhagavad_gita_intro.asp
One last thought- this may sound unhealthy to some, but you might want to consider temporarily trading in depression for anger. Anger also isn't the most wonderful feeling to dwell in, but when it comes to really extreme depression, I think it can be a useful stepping stone. If you feel like crap, toss the crap outward- turn everything inside out. Twist things around so YOU'RE the good one- at least you think about things, at least you see truths maybe others don't, at least you question, unlike the stupid + blind who just bop around with cheesy grins never second guessing anything around them. I know it sounds crazy, but don't be afraid to get mad, to curse, to point fingers- whatever you need to do. Purity and 100% good vibes does not exist. This is about your survival so do what you need to do. Stop being the nice victim, and be the warrior. You don't have to be an asshole, but in your mind build yourself up in any way that you can. Sorry if I made any incorrect assumptions in my post- I am just speaking from my personal experience. Good luck!
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"I can't be told by anyone how to live. If I said to the minister 'Move from your home' he would think I was mad." Bushman : Botswana
Edited by sadspacemonkey (11/13/07 10:59 AM)
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JoseLibrado
return


Registered: 04/21/07
Posts: 569
Last seen: 15 years, 6 months
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Do not EAT anymore. See how the universe becomes a different. Embark man, you have a gift to spread with the world, for a world of peace. Create your own reality, do not try to extract from the way you have been taught. FAST for aslong as your mind and body will allow you. Begin, return, begin, return. Embark. And set sail, your journey may have begun, once again. Is this real? Choose.
^.^
-------------------- The mind is a creative tool. It searches to protect you, through message sensations(feelings). It is no different than a computer, you need to make sure its anti-virus program is in check and that it doesnt have a script that limits your experience, because of to much precaution. And remember the computer does not appear to respond to words of anger and frustration - just give it input, in the form of new meanings that you know to be true and its messages to you and the limits it lays out for you, will change. Guilt is an outcome of believing you are the cause of the problems. Yet, we are not a cause to something, we see is negative or bad - Unless you believe your intentions are directed towards a bad outcome....
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7636713 - 11/14/07 06:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lifeson2112 said: Icelander, I realize that no one is responsible for how I feel. I have found comfort in knowing that I don't have to live. Maybe some change will come out of me killing myself and this stale shit I see all around me will find some nutrient after all the chaos fades. I don't like being a fucking burden anymore.
Personally I honor any choice you make about your own life.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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Icelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery



Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
Loc: underbelly
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Re: I am not a person anymore [Re: lifeson2112]
#7636735 - 11/14/07 06:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I want to be a better person.
And
You don't need to be a better person. You are a fine person who is struggling with the same things we all do.
-------------------- "Don't believe everything you think". -Anom. " All that lives was born to die"-Anom. With much wisdom comes much sorrow, The more knowledge, the more grief. Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC
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