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OfflineWronguy

Registered: 03/05/05
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Three jailed following ecstasy death
    #7617996 - 11/10/07 09:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

http://www.eadt.co.uk/content/eadt/news/story.aspx?brand=EADOnline&category=News&tBrand=EADOnline&tCategory=News&itemid=IPED09%20Nov%202007%2023%3A23%3A06%3A220

Three jailed following ecstasy death

THREE people have been sentenced to a total of more than five years in prison following the death of a Suffolk man who overdosed on ecstasy.

Darran Baker died in hospital just hours after he was taken ill whilst clubbing at the De Niro's nightclub in Newmarket in July last year.

Following his death, it emerged the 22-year-old, from Hythe Close in Burwell, had taken five ecstasy tablets which had been supplied to him by his friend, Cyd Smith.

At Ipswich Crown Court yesterday, Smith, from St Georges Road in Stowlangtoft, was handed an 18-month prison sentence for giving Mr Baker the Class A drugs.

Her own supplier, Adam Stebbeds, a “commercial drug dealer” from Croft Road in Newmarket, was sentenced to three years in prison.

Joshua Francis-Nichols, who was with Mr Baker on the night of the tragedy, pleaded guilty to a charge of possessing the Class A drug and was sentenced to a nine-month spell in jail.

His Honour Judge Peter De Mille said all three offences were extremely serious, and told the court he would be “failing in his duty” if he did not impose custodial sentences.

“It is always a personal tragedy when someone dies from the affects of drug abuse, and each death demonstrates the dangers of such abuse,” he said.

“It does not seem to deter people, unless, as in some cases, they are personally touched by tragedy.”

Richard Potts, prosecuting, said that on the evening of Mr Baker's death, Smith had gone to the skate park in Newmarket where she had met with 28-year-old Stebbeds and purchased 15 ecstasy tablets on behalf of herself, Mr Baker and Francis-Nichols.

In a statement, Smith said that while in De Niro's nightclub later that night, Mr Baker - who was a regular ecstasy user - told her he had taken all five of his tablets.

He was later seen by a doorman at the club, who described him as being “in a bad way” before he collapsed to the ground.

Mr Baker was taken to West Suffolk Hospital in Bury St Edmunds at around 5.45am, but was pronounced dead at just after 3pm that afternoon.

Charles Myatt, defending Smith, said the 23-year-old - who has a one-month-old daughter - was “full of remorse”, and had been visiting schools to talk about her experiences and warn about the dangers of drugs since her friend's death.

“The effect this has had on her has been immense, and something she never contemplated could be the result of the culture she and Darran Baker found themselves in over the months leading to the tragic events of last July,” he said.

“She knows it could have been her that night instead of him.”

Neil Macaulay, for Stebbeds, said that while the results of him supplying the drugs to Smith had been “cataclysmic”, the amount of ecstasy involved was “relatively small”.

Catherine Rabaiotti, who was defending Francis-Nichols, said the 23-year-old “sincerely regretted” the incident.

“He has lost a good friend, and has witnessed first hand the suffering these drugs have brought and how they have impacted on others,” she said.

“That is an experience he never wishes to live through again.”

All three defendants were ordered to serve half of their sentences, before being released on license.

Stebbeds, who was arrested for possession with intent to supply after being caught with 364gms of cannabis while on bail following Mr Baker's death, yesterday pleaded guilty to the charge and was sentenced to a further 12 months, bringing his total jail term to four years.


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OfflineYoschie99
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Wronguy]
    #7618365 - 11/10/07 11:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

fucking a..

personal responsibility means nothing in the drug court system...

what a fucking idiot for tossing all 5 pills back.


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Offlinenolongerinuse
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Yoschie99]
    #7618374 - 11/10/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

NO, what a fucking idiot dealer for not warning his customers on the strength and dangers of his merchandise.


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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: nolongerinuse]
    #7620356 - 11/10/07 09:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

new2grow said:
NO, what a fucking idiot dealer for not warning his customers on the strength and dangers of his merchandise.




no...

what an idiot for tossing five pills back.

no fucking reason to take that much XTC.

Regardless of potency.

Besides, there is not telling what quality and amount of MDMA was in that pill, or what it was mixed with.

My guess is an H based tab, or a Meth based tab, and five of them to boot.

that's stupid, taking 5 of anythin.g


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Wronguy]
    #7623393 - 11/11/07 08:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

THREE people have been sentenced to a total of more than five years in prison following the death of a Suffolk man who overdosed on ecstasy.

Meanwhile, people die of alcohol poisoning all the time and nobody goes to jail. Go figure... :rolleyes:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Diploid]
    #7623560 - 11/11/07 09:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

this is idiotic...

dumbshit took 5 pills. I've never done extasy and I know not to do that. This is bullshit. I could see if the guy gave him an unusually strong dose in pill form, without warning, but this is retarded.


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Offlinewireless
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: jeetered]
    #7624213 - 11/12/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jeetered said:
Quote:

new2grow said:
NO, what a fucking idiot dealer for not warning his customers on the strength and dangers of his merchandise.




no...

what an idiot for tossing five pills back.

no fucking reason to take that much XTC.

Regardless of potency.

Besides, there is not telling what quality and amount of MDMA was in that pill, or what it was mixed with.

My guess is an H based tab, or a Meth based tab, and five of them to boot.

that's stupid, taking 5 of anythin.g




It's very unlikely there was any heroin in that pill. Your chances of seeing PMA in a pill are more likely than heroin. Heroin is extremely expensive compared to MDMA, shitty to press with, looks completely different, and causes effects opposite of that of MDMA(in the case of euphoria). The most important thing is how expensive it would be to press pills with heroin and the stomach discomfort that can come with it. Chances of heroin are zero to none.

More likely the pills had a lot of methampetamine, but in most cases people pop two or three pills with methamphetamine and they are fine. Chances are he had some sort of past cardiac or neurological condition in which very large doses of MDMA triggered said condition and killed him. You can pretty much rule out PMA or any other adulterate because two other people took the pills with no negative side effects. That or him being at a club, maybe consuming alcohol, dancing, or not consuming any water, PLUS 400mg+ of MDMA just simply wore out his body and killed him. This is clearly an issue with the user and the drug, seeing how MDMA pills are extremely safe to consume and the number of deaths since being illegalized in 1986 is in the hundreds.


Edited by wireless (11/12/07 12:35 AM)


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: wireless]
    #7624443 - 11/12/07 03:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> what a fucking idiot for tossing all 5 pills back.

No, not really. 5 pills is a legit dosage of X. Reguardless of weither the pills were MDMA, meth, or a mixture that dosage is nowhere near a lethal dosage.

The man obviously did not die from an overdose. To even be in any sort of danger he would have had to take more in the range of 20+ pills.

Taking a polydrug user who drinks and clubs and pinning it on any one substance is the real idiotic part of this story. In reality this man died from the combination of multiple drugs in his system and the general poor health of a polydrug user.

The LD50 of MDMA is around 100-300 mg/kg. The standard X dose is about 75-125mg. That's about a 60-70X margin of safety. That is to say that you aren't even approaching the LD50 until you take 50+ pills. Meth also has a pretty good safety margin.

5 X pills is really not that much, and it's certainly not enough to kill you. Especially for a regular X user.


-FF


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Invisiblejeetered
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: wireless]
    #7624686 - 11/12/07 07:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

wireless said:
Quote:

jeetered said:
Quote:

new2grow said:
NO, what a fucking idiot dealer for not warning his customers on the strength and dangers of his merchandise.




no...

what an idiot for tossing five pills back.

no fucking reason to take that much XTC.

Regardless of potency.

Besides, there is not telling what quality and amount of MDMA was in that pill, or what it was mixed with.

My guess is an H based tab, or a Meth based tab, and five of them to boot.

that's stupid, taking 5 of anythin.g




It's very unlikely there was any heroin in that pill. Your chances of seeing PMA in a pill are more likely than heroin. Heroin is extremely expensive compared to MDMA, shitty to press with, looks completely different, and causes effects opposite of that of MDMA(in the case of euphoria). The most important thing is how expensive it would be to press pills with heroin and the stomach discomfort that can come with it. Chances of heroin are zero to none.

More likely the pills had a lot of methampetamine, but in most cases people pop two or three pills with methamphetamine and they are fine. Chances are he had some sort of past cardiac or neurological condition in which very large doses of MDMA triggered said condition and killed him. You can pretty much rule out PMA or any other adulterate because two other people took the pills with no negative side effects. That or him being at a club, maybe consuming alcohol, dancing, or not consuming any water, PLUS 400mg+ of MDMA just simply wore out his body and killed him. This is clearly an issue with the user and the drug, seeing how MDMA pills are extremely safe to consume and the number of deaths since being illegalized in 1986 is in the hundreds.




you are an idiot dear sir... if i do X, i search out the H based tabs, there are plenty of pressers that press H into their tabs, It's NOT the opposite affect either, apparently you've never done H, H alone is better euphoria then MDMA.

lol

and i don't know where you live, but H is fucking dirt cheap...
the towel heads have us so overloaded with it, arabs basically give it away.

so ...



Edited by jeetered (11/12/07 07:19 AM)


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: jeetered]
    #7624837 - 11/12/07 08:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I can't wait to see them start tossing car salesmen in jail after people die in a car wreck.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Invisibleblackfir
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Seuss]
    #7624922 - 11/12/07 09:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
I can't wait to see them start tossing car salesmen in jail after people die in a car wreck.



..and their gas station accomplice.


--------------------
Tell me, I pray thee, where the seer's house is.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: jeetered]
    #7626780 - 11/12/07 05:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jeetered said:
you are an idiot dear sir... if i do X, i search out the H based tabs, there are plenty of pressers that press H into their tabs, It's NOT the opposite affect either, apparently you've never done H, H alone is better euphoria then MDMA.




Jeetered, you really made an ass of yourself this time. Not only did you flame the guy, but you're dead wrong.

Perhaps you need a day ban for violating the rules by flaming someone on a subject you are ignorant about.

Anyways, check out: http://www.ecstasydata.org/

Of the 1,565 pill samples they've tested 1 single pill had H in it. It was found in New York in 2003. It had a 10:3:1 ratio of aspirin:heroin:prozac in it.

That is to say that the one single E pill that has ever been found to have heroin in it was mostly aspirin and had no MDMA in it whatsoever.

This will take you right to the table...
http://www.ecstasydata.org/datastats.php?row=Substances&col=year&percent=0


-FF


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OfflineDivided_Sky
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: jeetered]
    #7626858 - 11/12/07 05:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

jeetered said:

you are an idiot dear sir... if i do X, i search out the H based tabs, there are plenty of pressers that press H into their tabs, It's NOT the opposite affect either, apparently you've never done H, H alone is better euphoria then MDMA.





No. They really don't. There is no such thing as heroin in ecstacy. Do a google search or something.


--------------------
1. "After an hour I wasn't feeling anything so I decided to take another..."
2. "We were feeling pretty good so we decided to smoke a few bowls..."
3. "I had to be real quiet because my parents were asleep upstairs..."


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OfflinePhishe
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Divided_Sky]
    #7627942 - 11/12/07 09:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Divided_Sky said:
Quote:

jeetered said:

you are an idiot dear sir... if i do X, i search out the H based tabs, there are plenty of pressers that press H into their tabs, It's NOT the opposite affect either, apparently you've never done H, H alone is better euphoria then MDMA.





No. They really don't. There is no such thing as heroin in ecstacy. Do a google search or something.




I was about to say the same thing... Don't go calling people idiots when you dont know what the fuck you are talking about..


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: fastfred]
    #7628859 - 11/13/07 03:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Perhaps you need a day ban for violating the rules by flaming someone on a subject you are ignorant about.

Tempting, but I would rather him learn the truth, as you and a few others pointed out, rather than getting angry over being banned.


--------------------
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OfflineYoschie99
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: fastfred]
    #7629459 - 11/13/07 09:11 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fastfred said:
> what a fucking idiot for tossing all 5 pills back.

No, not really. 5 pills is a legit dosage of X. Reguardless of weither the pills were MDMA, meth, or a mixture that dosage is nowhere near a lethal dosage.

The man obviously did not die from an overdose. To even be in any sort of danger he would have had to take more in the range of 20+ pills.

Taking a polydrug user who drinks and clubs and pinning it on any one substance is the real idiotic part of this story. In reality this man died from the combination of multiple drugs in his system and the general poor health of a polydrug user.

The LD50 of MDMA is around 100-300 mg/kg. The standard X dose is about 75-125mg. That's about a 60-70X margin of safety. That is to say that you aren't even approaching the LD50 until you take 50+ pills. Meth also has a pretty good safety margin.

5 X pills is really not that much, and it's certainly not enough to kill you. Especially for a regular X user.


-FF




i understand what you're saying, fred.. but, would an intelligent person grab 5 pills of unknown quality/composition and just throw them in their mouth?

I say, no. That's really, really stupid.

Assuming that this person was well informed, even... knew his pills were *almost* pure MDMA (minus the binders)... had knowledge of MDMA and it's LD50... the unknowns: personal response, unknown physical complications, etc, should be reason enough not to put that much of a substance like MDMA in your system at once.

this dude was an idiot, repeat.

yos-


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: Yoschie99]
    #7630295 - 11/13/07 12:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm also not aware of any evidence that Fred's figures are relevant for humans. I suspect these are rodent models? As I'm sure you know, rodents have a comparitivly larger liver mass relative to their blood volume, so they detoxify quicker.

Anyways, this is another victim of drug prohibition/ stupidity, as this man could have had reliable information as to the actual dose he was taking, and suggestions on an appropriate dose, had this been sold in a manner more similar to other (legal) pharmaceuticals.

Oh well, let's blame the dealers, prohibition wins again.


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Invisiblefastfred
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: johnm214]
    #7630457 - 11/13/07 01:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> I suspect these are rodent models?

Certainly. That's part of the problem with prohibition. If you can't test on humans or even gather data on usage then you're kind of stuck with rodent models. The point is that there's plenty of safety margin and 5 E pills isn't really taking all that much.

The guy wasn't an idiot, he was just in poor health apparently or drank/drugged too much. Plenty of people will take several X pills at once. In fact 1 pill is rarely enough so most people start at 2 of them. If you want to make sure that you have a good trip then you take 3. And just like any drug there are some people that like to trip much harder than others.

Calling the guy an idiot for doing something that almost certainly wasn't the primary cause of his death is foolish and mean. Calling him an idiot for mixing drugs, not drinking enough water, dancing to exhaustion, etc. is fine. He probably should get a Darwin award for something, but perhaps he simply had a bad heart or a poorly functioning liver or he could have been on any number of prescription drugs.

You guys are falling into the drug war trap of demonizing certain drugs to the exclusion of more likely factors.


-FF


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OfflineYoschie99
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: fastfred]
    #7631105 - 11/13/07 03:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i haven't had a pill in years that i've needed to take more than one at a time. Are they out there? probably.. but i would never consider that the norm.. and certainly not base dosage upon that suspicion.

It seems to me that you're falling into the trap of, "what happens to me happens to everyone." Which is much more dangerous than assuming risk.

the smart and safe thing is to start small.. not big.. period.

the fact that you are even posting as "fact" that *most* pills need 2 to start, is irresponsible, IMO... any idiot on this board could take your horrible "fact" and run with it right to the hospital...

Calling the guy an idiot for doing something idiotic just makes sense, to me.

I'm certainly not demonizing MDMA.. i think it's a great substance.. i'm demonizing idiot drug users that take unnecessary and idiotic risks that land themselves dead or in the hospital, and get their friends locked up.

yos-


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Invisiblejohnm214
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Re: Three jailed following ecstasy death [Re: fastfred]
    #7631185 - 11/13/07 03:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

FF:

I suspect the problem is more likely the result of it being considered unethical to administer a drug such as this to volunteers. How are you going to study the lethal concentration on human volunteers? Even new OTC pharmaceuticals aren't tested in such a manner.

Our data of LD50 comes from case reports and retrospective studies.


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