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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order

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Invisiblesleepy
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interstellar travel
    #7613833 - 11/09/07 05:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

3 things. saftey, nuclear power, entertainment


thats all you need.


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: sleepy]
    #7613879 - 11/09/07 06:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Hope you don't get the munchies.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Seuss]
    #7614050 - 11/09/07 08:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Your not safe if you dont eat....


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: strangladesh]
    #7614128 - 11/09/07 08:36 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Your not safe if you dont eat....

Your definition of safe is much different than mine. For example, people that eat while driving are less safe than people that concentrate on driving while driving.


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Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleEgo Death
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: sleepy]
    #7614142 - 11/09/07 08:40 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You'd need quite a lot of cool stuff

An inertia canceler for starters, unless you wanna go in the slow lane!

Also maybe an anti-matter reactor and some advanced form of propulsion.


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Ego Death]
    #7614531 - 11/09/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Advanced propulsion only necessary for travel w/in a lifetime.

If you can figure out how to put someone into some kind of stasis, you can send them off to Sigma Draconis with an ion engine blowing out the back of the ship. It doesn't matter if it takes a million years.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7616741 - 11/09/07 08:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Advanced propulsion only necessary for travel w/in a lifetime.

If you can figure out how to put someone into some kind of stasis, you can send them off to Sigma Draconis with an ion engine blowing out the back of the ship. It doesn't matter if it takes a million years.




The problem with the idea of stasis ship is that you might put a group of people in stasis and send them on their 100 year journey to wherever the fuck.

Well, half way on their trip(or probably sooner), here back on Earth, we'll have developed a space travel technology thats fast enough to just catch up to the stasis ship. Then all those people who were put in stasis will have wasted those 50 years.


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7616791 - 11/09/07 08:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

well ion engines are meant to run on solar power. imagine if we had a whole shitload of em, all huge as fuck running from a nuclear reactor?

can someone say fast as fuck?

but then again, how would we slow down? start early? that seems like it defeats the purpose of going fst in the first place.


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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OfflineNephlyte
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: nobhdy]
    #7617119 - 11/09/07 10:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, if the destination is another sun, it could turn off the ion engine and either fire a big ass rocket to counter its motion.

Or if the destination is another sun, deploy a big solar sail that would slow it down.

But, i agree. I think we should send out some nuclear powered Ion engine crafts to other stars right now. Perhaps its still beyond us at this point.


--------------------
"To do right is to know what you want. Now when you are dissatisfied with yourself it's because you are after something you don't really want. What objects are you proposing to yourself? Are they the objects you really value? If they are not, you are cheating yourself. I don't meant that if you chose to pursue the objects you most value, you will attain them; of course not. Your experience will tell you that. But success in getting after much labor what you really don't care for is the bitterest and most ridiculous failure." -George Santayana


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7617246 - 11/09/07 11:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

there is no point in sending a ship to another star (manned or unmanned) unless the ship can replicate itself once it gets there

that is the best way to explore our galaxy because in theory the rate of exploration increases geometrically, rather than arithmetically by producing them all here on earth


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OfflineMadtowntripper
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Nephlyte]
    #7619139 - 11/10/07 02:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Nephlyte said:
Quote:

Madtowntripper said:
Advanced propulsion only necessary for travel w/in a lifetime.

If you can figure out how to put someone into some kind of stasis, you can send them off to Sigma Draconis with an ion engine blowing out the back of the ship. It doesn't matter if it takes a million years.




The problem with the idea of stasis ship is that you might put a group of people in stasis and send them on their 100 year journey to wherever the fuck.

Well, half way on their trip(or probably sooner), here back on Earth, we'll have developed a space travel technology thats fast enough to just catch up to the stasis ship. Then all those people who were put in stasis will have wasted those 50 years.




Its my understanding, and I'm not a physicist, that with in the reasonably near future its likely that we'll have the capability to propel something to some decent percentage of the speed of light.

Whether you believe anything faster than that truly IS possible is another story completely. I tend to think it isn't for my own reasons.


--------------------
After one comes, through contact with it's administrators, no longer to cherish greatly the law as a remedy in abuses, then the bottle becomes a sovereign means of direct action.  If you cannot throw it at least you can always drink out of it.  - Ernest Hemingway

If it is life that you feel you are missing I can tell you where to find it.  In the law courts, in business, in government.  There is nothing occurring in the streets. Nothing but a dumbshow composed of the helpless and the impotent.    -Cormac MacCarthy

He who learns must suffer. And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget falls drop by drop upon the heart, and in our own despair, against our will, comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.  - Aeschylus


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Invisiblewps
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7619290 - 11/10/07 03:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I think its all about the Generation Ship. you know, like in Rendezvous with Rama.


The problem is, people aren't selfless and forward thinking enough to begin a quest that they won't personally see completed. Taking strides for the benefit of future generations is not in the individual's self-interest.


--------------------
"America touts itself as the land of the free, but the number one freedom that you and I have is the freedom to enter into a subservient role in the workplace. Once you exercise this freedom you've lost all control over what you do, what is produced, and how it is produced. And in the end, the product doesn't belong to you. The only way you can avoid bosses and jobs is if you don't care about making a living. Which leads to the second freedom: the freedom to starve."

- Tom Morello


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Madtowntripper]
    #7619555 - 11/10/07 04:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Madtowntripper said:Its my understanding, and I'm not a physicist, that with in the reasonably near future its likely that we'll have the capability to propel something to some decent percentage of the speed of light.


I dont know dude... that would take a ton of energy... I dont think any physicist thinks that, but Im not sure.

The fastest man made space craft is call the new horizon probe. I just looked it up, it goes 16km/s. So, thats about half a percent the speed of light.

I just did some quick math... If you wanted to accelerate it up to .5c (which is barely relativistic), it would take roughly 5.00*10^19 Joules. I wikipedia world wide energy usage, and it happens to be that number! So to propel a small craft at only half light speed would take a whole years worth of humanities energy consumption. You could not do this with rocket fuel, as it would take more fuel than the probe's own mass! In fact, even if you used antimatter it would take 552kg to propel the craft that is only 478kg.

I dont think it will happen in our lifetime, or in the next 1000 years. I wouldnt be surprised if no organic species in the universe ever travels from star to star.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: DieCommie]
    #7619656 - 11/10/07 05:15 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

you ever solved GR for wormholes?


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: interstellar travel [Re: TheCow]
    #7619684 - 11/10/07 05:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

uhhh no :tongue: I cant even do differential geometry, just basic shit.

I heard smart people talk about it though... In fact two days ago I went to a talk by Lawrence M. Krauss (writer of the physics of star trek and theoretical physicist)  And he brought up the point that yea, you can find them in the math... but they collapse real quick, are real small, require negative energy and would transport you both in time and space.  And of course there has never been an experiment to show they do exist.  Surely it may very well be that they are just impractical or impossible for an evolved life form to make.

How about you have you done wormholes in GR?  Is the math really hard?


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Offlinenobhdy
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: DieCommie]
    #7620515 - 11/10/07 10:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i would personally like to see the Warp Drive developed into a realistic mode of propulsion. though it has many flaws and is only theoretical, i think it would be great to ride arond in a warp bubble...*ubertrekie*


--------------------
[quote]Gumby said:
And if you are going to waste peoples time with your stupid questions, at least try to have grammar skills higher then that of a 7th grader.

READ DAMNIT! [/quote]


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: nobhdy]
    #7620861 - 11/11/07 12:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The Alcubierre Metric is a curious mathematical result that has nothing to do with the real world. Here's a simpler example of the same thing:

Say you have a square piece of plywood with a surface area of 9 square centimeters. What is the length of each side?

Well, if the square's surface area is 9 centimeters, then each side must be square root of 9 centimeters long. The problem occurs in that 9 has two square roots, 3 and -3 because 3 * 3 = 9 and also -3 * -3 = 9.

It is meaningless to say that the square in question has sides of length -3.

Alcubierre's theoretical model is the same as the theoretical negative solution to the above problem which is meaningless except as a mathematical curiosity.

This theme repeats in the concept of the Tachyon (faster than light particle) which is another mathematical curiosity that has nothing to do with reality. If tachyons existed, they would have a mass of square root of -1, which is meaningless (actually, it would be square root of -1 times some coefficient, but that's not important here).

Besides, if someone was gonna invent Warp Drive, it would be a Cuban, not a Mexican named Alcubierre. :tongue:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: DieCommie]
    #7621118 - 11/11/07 06:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nah Ive never done it, my GR professor said for kicks he might take us through a paper on it. But he never did. I cant imagine the math being that hard, or any harder than the math in GR normally is.


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: TheCow]
    #7623755 - 11/11/07 09:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

we would also need a kickass mission. mission statement suggestions welcome. have them on my computer screen stat. i vote for, to make icecream where there previously was only sandwiches. on problem with Near LIght SPeed, is how do you dodge comets and things like that? i think we could definitely do some sort of stargate.


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Offlinestrangladesh
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Re: interstellar travel [Re: Seuss]
    #7624097 - 11/11/07 11:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
> Your not safe if you dont eat....

Your definition of safe is much different than mine. For example, people that eat while driving are less safe than people that concentrate on driving while driving.




Im guessing intersteller travel would take a while weeks,months years...so it would be a good idea to eat...or be frozen..


Edited by strangladesh (11/11/07 11:38 PM)


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Shop: Kraken Kratom Red Vein Kratom   Unfolding Nature Unfolding Nature: Being in the Implicate Order


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