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Offlinemushroomplume
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Question About Karma
    #7613749 - 11/09/07 04:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Karma is the law of cause and effect basically, right?

So, would that mean that all of our actions in a way have no way of being changed? If a series of causes produce a particular result, doesn't that mean that all of our actions are inevitable? There was nothing we could do to change them, it was bound to happen?

Just like this post. It was going to happen. Every event in my life has led to this moment. Every conversation I've had with people, every idea that's come into my mind, even having the right resources at the right time so I could have this laptop to make the post.

:discodance:


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Offlineakb112211
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7613782 - 11/09/07 05:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

just like this post too. I've never posted in the philosophy spirituality forum, but I felt compelled to.


--------------------
"There never was and never will be,
Nor is there now,
The wholly criticized
Or the wholly approved"


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: akb112211]
    #7614077 - 11/09/07 08:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I used to believe in karma until someone tried to tell me that my bad luck was someones else's good karma. I thought that was really terrible considering i try so hard to do good and in no way deserved what was happening at that time.


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Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7614116 - 11/09/07 08:33 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

> Karma is the law of cause and effect basically, right?

I look at it more like a spinning plate on a stick. Karma is a reflection of how well balanced our life (the plate) is. When karma is out of balance, our lives wobble around with apparent chaos. When karma is in balance, our lives flow smoothly.


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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InvisibleJack Albertson
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: Seuss]
    #7614123 - 11/09/07 08:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

how do you manage to keep the plate spinning fast enough?


--------------------
Man is timid and apologetic; he is no longer upright; he dares not say "I think," "I am," but quotes some saint or sage. He is ashamed before the blade of grass or the blowing rose.Man postpones or remembers; he does not live in the present, but with reverted eye laments the past, or, heedless of the riches that surround him, stands on tiptoe to foresee the future. He cannot be happy and strong until he too lives with nature in the present, above time
TRANSCEND



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Invisibledblaney
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7614422 - 11/09/07 10:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Karma is the law of cause and effect, as applied to volitional behavior. It's not some arcane theory of predetermination or anything like that. It simply says that volitional actions have results, and that we constantly are creating karma and constantly experiencing its effects. Once you can see yourself creating it, then you have the possibility to be free from it. You still have the capacity to be creative. Your present experience and your future are NOT at all out of your hands.


--------------------
"What is in us that turns a deaf ear to the cries of human suffering?"

"Belief is a beautiful armor
But makes for the heaviest sword"
- John Mayer

Making the noise "penicillin" is no substitute for actually taking penicillin.

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it, or their revolutionary right to dismember or overthrow it." -Abraham Lincoln


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InvisibleSilversoul
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7614502 - 11/09/07 10:38 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A common misunderstanding about karma is that it's simply reward for good behavior and punishment for bad behavior. While karma can manifest in this way, it is a blind force, and can in fact take some innocent bystanders. A feud, such as what one might find in the Balkans, is an example of karma. One person kills another person from another family, so someone from that family kills another person from that person's family. This goes back and forth for generations, killing people who had nothing to do with the original act. It can only stop when someone chooses to stop the wheel of karma by extending an offer of peace. We are all paying off the karmic debt of our forefathers.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7615398 - 11/09/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My understanding is that there is no such thing as good karma. Karma is the likely results of wrong thoughts. If a person knew for sure a thought was wrong, they would change it, so it is experience that releases karma. Eyes open, you make mistakes and learn. Eyes closed, you don't learn, and are inviting more karma into your life.

It is a little more complicated than this, but basically yea, what you said. The caveat is that when you learn that it's worthwhile to keep the eyes open, you begin getting rid of karma faster than you create it.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: Rahz]
    #7615430 - 11/09/07 02:03 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

karma is the internal leveller
feelings are involved:
the feeling of pleasure is resultant of good karma
the feeling of pain is resultant of bad karma

indifference is resultant of neutral karma.



the roots of bad karma are hatred, greed and delusion
the roots of good karma are love, generosity and wisdom/clarity

suffering of pain is alleviated with good karma and intensified with bad karma. basic eastern psychology. I think it works,
but not necessarily via re-incarnation into subsequent bodies.
it is particularly effective within the life span.

it is not so much about what happens, but how what happens is translated into feelings (particularly pain or pleasure).


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7615581 - 11/09/07 02:43 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I won't disagree with the existence of good karma, it's just that if there was never a problem (creation of bad karma), the word karma would never have came about. It is a useful frame for me. In other words, good karma is what happens after the creation of bad karma, and seeking "good karma" is really just another way of dealing with bad karma. Doing something without ego, a pure expression, generates neither "good" nor bad karma, so it's all karma to me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: Rahz]
    #7615895 - 11/09/07 03:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

no
good karmic roots lead to pleasurable results
and bad karmic roots lead to painful results.
this happens regardless of what was established prior.
good roots are the mindset required for pleasure
bad roots are the mindset of pain
it is like set and setting for a psychonaut.
you are at the rudder of the whole thing all the time.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7615954 - 11/09/07 04:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

redgreenvines,

how much of our conditioning/circumstances establishes karma?

also, if you could reply as simply as possible I would appreciate it. many of these concepts and words seem mighty big to me.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7615980 - 11/09/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

To me, "good karma" is a useful motivator, but to my mind, if a person wasn't in pain, they wouldn't have a desire to seek pleasure.

Perhaps we have different definitions of bad karma. For me, bad karma is the un-manifested results of faulty beliefs. Going with this definition, good karma would be results of correct belief, in which case good karma is just the state of not having bad karma.

So, going out to spread love, or any activity specifically meant to create good karma, is also an attempt to dispel bad karma. Without bad karma, there is no seeking or attempting, just doing.

Anyway, I find the topic interesting, and I'm not close minded to checking out other viewpoints. Can you give an example of creating good karma that doesn't deal with bad karma? I guess I don't believe it's possible to create good karma without getting rid of some bad karma in the process. They seem the same to me.


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Offlinesatori
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7616019 - 11/09/07 04:34 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Karma is an energy that one accumulates based soley on their intentions. Acording to buddhism it can affect you in this life or the next. All of the energy that you accumulate coincides with causality. Everything has an effect on everthing else. So if your "previous life" was full of bad karma, you would be reborn in, or caused to live in, a less favorable life now. This is how the cycle of samsara works. The main goal of buddhism is to free yourself of karma, both good and bad, to escape this cycle, and that is what they would say nirvana is. So its not that our future is predetermined, but that we have started out in a certain situation. From here it is up to you to gain good or bad karma, and cause the future.


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InvisibleRahz
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: satori]
    #7616133 - 11/09/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Nice first post.

So I'm wondering if we're just debating semantics. If good karma is something to loose, it's not much different than bad karma. The balance spoken of... if a person has too much good karma, does this not result in pain? Cause if not, screw enlightenment, I'll just work on amassing an over abundance of good karma.:tongue:

Namaste


--------------------
rahz

comfort pleasure power love truth awareness peace


"You’re not looking close enough if you can only see yourself in people who look like you." —Ayishat Akanbi


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7616397 - 11/09/07 06:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

oliveplume said:
redgreenvines,

how much of our conditioning/circumstances establishes karma?

also, if you could reply as simply as possible I would appreciate it. many of these concepts and words seem mighty big to me.




technically the roots that establish karma are based upon goodwill or ill will
the word in common is will
will relates to your prefrontal cortex.
conditioning can drift to the prefrontal cortex, but
at this point the brain can examine everything against all of what it knows and against it's sense of fairness.

all of what it knows is conditioning, but fairness and suitability is more spontaneous and that is where the will comes in.
almost a ghost this spirit of fairness,
the ill will is in siding with the impish ghost,
the good will is in siding with the cherubic ghost.
those are conditioned, but the sense of suitability is spontaneous
and that is from where the helmsman is steering the ship.
the will

prefrontal cortex can judge against hundreds of cases and determine what is fair and what is not.

where to stand on that is what establishes karma.


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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Offlinemushroomplume
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7616454 - 11/09/07 07:04 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

the way I read your post is that we have a will that steers the ship of karma basically? a will operates better with a ship made of good karma as opposed to one of bad karma?

redgreenvines,

i know little of tao, but just wiki'd it. does my idea share any similarities with it?

-cheers


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Invisibleredgreenvines
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: mushroomplume]
    #7617534 - 11/10/07 02:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

yes
the ocean
no separation
helmsman and ship and water
all connected.
karma is just like glue or stickiness
binding pleasure to good will and pain to ill will.
no separation


--------------------
:confused: _ :brainfart:🧠  _ :finger:


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InvisibleZShroom
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Re: Question About Karma [Re: redgreenvines]
    #7618132 - 11/10/07 10:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Eyes open, you make mistakes and learn. Eyes closed, you don't learn, and are inviting more karma into your life.



braethtaking


--------------------


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