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OfflineBooby
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I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd
    #7613682 - 11/09/07 02:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'd like to see the day when society treats suicide with compassion rather than subjecting the despondent to the further pain of a botched attempt.


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613818 - 11/09/07 05:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

compassion for what?


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7613829 - 11/09/07 05:51 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well, we show our compassion for the poor and homless by feeding and housing them. I think society could recognize and care for the needs of the suicide.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613830 - 11/09/07 05:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Based on the thread title and content, how could/would society be able to actually care for the needs of someone who wants to distance itself from the society?


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channel your inner Larry David


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: demiu5]
    #7613837 - 11/09/07 05:56 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

a Clinic that cares for their release.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613843 - 11/09/07 05:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

but why would a suicidal person who wants distance from society be willing to go to a clinic with other people and almost certainly one that is still so connected to society (food, medicines, electricity, etc)?


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613844 - 11/09/07 06:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

wrt the homeless i disagree as many homeless people work and by feeding and housing them you ignore the bigger problem of low wages / undervalued workers ... you create more of a problem in my opinion

i think that society should respect the desire of serious people to make the informed decision to choose not to exist, thats as far as i will go


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7613845 - 11/09/07 06:01 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Most people who attempt to commit suicide are probably fairly distant from society already, or they would likely be able to talk through their feelings with someone. The act of suicide itself is a refusal of help; they've given up on them self and/or everyone else and they've decided to end it.

As for compassion for the suicidal, there are suicide hot lines, counselors, therapists, and countless people in general who are more than willing to help someone through tough times - if they want the help.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Cameron]
    #7613848 - 11/09/07 06:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

So you don't think Kevorkian Clinics are a good idea?


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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613850 - 11/09/07 06:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i do


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7613860 - 11/09/07 06:10 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I feel sorry for suicides who are alienated by a society that doesn't care to ease their passage.


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7613863 - 11/09/07 06:12 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

By compassion, do you mean supporting the suicidal with the means to end their life efficiently? (I thought you meant by offering help to avoid suicide) Well, if people really want to kill themselves, they'll do it regardless of the legality of it, or the existence of 'Kevorkian Clinics'. I think that it's ultimately their choice, and the best we can do is offer them help and let them make up their own mind.


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Cameron]
    #7613870 - 11/09/07 06:16 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. If I had've had a more efficient and less painful means of self-termination I would have done it long ago. Struggling with the temptation of a handgun is one of my less favorite memories.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613875 - 11/09/07 06:19 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

excessive amount of opiates or benzos + alcohol (not even necessary) or doing the drugs and using a gun or knife once inebriated

anyone who has to have someone else 'kill themselves' is weaker than the person trying to kill themselves

also, I see what you mean by clinics now


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: demiu5]
    #7613880 - 11/09/07 06:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

demius said:


anyone who has to have someone else 'kill themselves' is weaker than the person trying to kill themselves






I don't know but we could perform some of our own surgeries. We don't because there's a certain trust and reliance on professional expertise.


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Invisibledemiu5
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7613888 - 11/09/07 06:31 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

that's because it doesn't take a heart/brain surgeon to kill oneself


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channel your inner Larry David


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7614189 - 11/09/07 08:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Booby said:
I'd like to see the day when society treats suicide with compassion rather than subjecting the despondent to the further pain of a botched attempt.




I'd like to see the day when each person decides about suicide and doesn't worry about what society thinks.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBooby
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Icelander]
    #7615373 - 11/09/07 01:46 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Same can be said for pot but it just doesn't work that way.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Booby]
    #7616190 - 11/09/07 05:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"Little kids on the skids,
living the way their folks just did.
Well it don't seem right,
it don't seem right to me.
Well it don't seem right
but that's how it's gotta be." -Holy Model Rounders.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineLocus
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Cameron]
    #7616369 - 11/09/07 06:39 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Cameron said:
Most people who attempt to commit suicide are probably fairly distant from society already, or they would likely be able to talk through their feelings with someone. The act of suicide itself is a refusal of help; they've given up on them self and/or everyone else and they've decided to end it.

As for compassion for the suicidal, there are suicide hot lines, counselors, therapists, and countless people in general who are more than willing to help someone through tough times - if they want the help.




actually i think in a lot of cases people use attempted suicides as a cry for help. if they are attempted or they are successful depends but anyway... then there are the seriously suicidal people who attempt suicide and plan it out and really want to die... and i feel that most people can be helped and wouldnt need suicide. but for the people that are in a hell of pain that cannot be helped... situations like that... and i know from my own experience because i have a similar situation and ive thought about it myself..

i think that we should all damn well have the the right to kill ourselves because its our body.. just like we should have the right to do drugs and hurt ourselves because its our body.. as long as it doesnt hurt other people..

i think there should be a place to help people do it if need be. but if youre smart you wouldnt really need it in the first place. but situations like old aged who are in pain and such like that may want that..

anyway.. thats all i have to say about that right now.


--------------------

The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has its own reason for existing. One cannot help but be in awe when he contemplates the mysteries of eternity, of life, of the marvelous structure of reality. It is enough if one tries merely to comprehend a little of this mystery every day. Never lose a holy curiosity. ~ Albert Einstein
"Fear is the great barrier to human growth." ~ Dr. Robert Monroe



~~~*Dosis sola facit venenum*~~~

*Check my profile to listen to my music* :smile:


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Invisiblemachination
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Locus]
    #7616439 - 11/09/07 07:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

righteous hedonism


--------------------
"Have you not learned that your word is bond? Yes, my word is bond and bond is life, I shall give my life, before my word shall fail."


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InvisibleCameron
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Re: I Think Suicide Can Be An Expression Of A Desire To Distance Oneself From The Herd [Re: Locus]
    #7616638 - 11/09/07 07:55 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

actually i think in a lot of cases people use attempted suicides as a cry for help. if they are attempted or they are successful depends but anyway... then there are the seriously suicidal people who attempt suicide and plan it out and really want to die... and i feel that most people can be helped and wouldnt need suicide. but for the people that are in a hell of pain that cannot be helped... situations like that... and i know from my own experience because i have a similar situation and ive thought about it myself..




Agreed. If one really wants to die, there's no reason that he shouldn't be able to kill himself (I'm looking around right now, and I can see a dozen different ways I could kill myself... not that I would do it). I was talking about the people who've made up their minds and are determined to die. Most of those people will probably succeed; the majority of the survivors are probably either seeking help or they're just not very bright.

Quote:

i think that we should all damn well have the the right to kill ourselves because its our body.. just like we should have the right to do drugs and hurt ourselves because its our body.. as long as it doesnt hurt other people..




I agree that we should all have the right to decide the time of our death, but I just wanted to point out that suicide doesn't go unnoticed by family/friends of the deceased. Suicide can have a deep impact on loved ones: parents leaving children behind, children emotionally crippling their parents, deep riffs in families and friendships that may never heal. So, I think that if one decides to kill himself without making his feelings and intentions clear to those around him, suicide in itself is an extremely selfish and thoughtless act. For most people, it's an easy solution to all of their problems, that ends up devastating the people they leave behind.


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