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OfflineDagnus
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Faster than the speed of light...
    #7612038 - 11/08/07 04:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"If you were traveling faster than the speed of light, faster than the speed of time... then there would be no time!"
1200 Micrograms- E=mc^2


What do you think of this statement? What would be the repercussions of something like that? Would you see things in reverse as you caught up to light ahead of you? Overall thoughts?


--------------------
Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who matter don't mind and those who mind don't matter
-Dr. Seuss


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Dagnus]
    #7612058 - 11/08/07 05:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

"If you were traveling faster than the speed of light"... Stop there. You already have your answer which is you can't go faster. Maybe teleporting or some tricky science shit... but you can't move FTL.

0 x 5 x 7 x 8 x 200 = 0

See how everything after the first 0 is meaningless? That's like your question.

As far as I know anyway...


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InvisibleDieCommie


Registered: 12/11/03
Posts: 29,258
Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7612066 - 11/08/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

RoosterCogburn said:
"If you were traveling faster than the speed of light"... Stop there. You already have your answer which is you can't go faster. Maybe teleporting or some tricky science shit... but you can't move FTL.

0 x 5 x 7 x 8 x 200 = 0

See how everything after the first 0 is meaningless? That's like your question.

As far as I know anyway...


I concur. Im not to knowledgeable about philosophy, but physics I am. Its a false premise, so any conclusion is irrelevant.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Dagnus]
    #7612067 - 11/08/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

one day i went faster than the speed of light. Good day it was.


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: TheCow]
    #7612068 - 11/08/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

honestly im not actually convinced that the speed of light is the fastest theoretical speed. My body rests on the complex plane, how about yours


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OfflineCherk
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Dagnus]
    #7612082 - 11/08/07 05:14 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

we all make plans
no one should be ashamed of making plans


--------------------
I have considered such matters.

SIKE


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: TheCow]
    #7612090 - 11/08/07 05:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Not me Im keeping it real.


|f|^2


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OfflineFrenziedTortoise
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: RoosterCogburn]
    #7612095 - 11/08/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I'm pretty sure that scientists have propelled energy faster than light in recent, and some not so recent, experiments. That means the whole "nothing travels faster than light" thing SHOULD be bunk by now, but it hangs around because such a large portion of today's physics rests upon the assumption, and let's face it, todays physics is pretty darn accurate.

I don't think time would change at all. If I'm travelling at the speed of light, I'm just travelling fast IN time. Like you say though, as far as I can surmise you should catch up to those light rays that departed from you, and be able to see what you had previously done.


Edited by FrenziedTortoise (11/08/07 05:24 PM)


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OfflineTheCow
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: DieCommie]
    #7612097 - 11/08/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

ha keepin it real. damn, i need to to become a film studies major or something


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Offlinefreepain
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: TheCow]
    #7612337 - 11/08/07 06:44 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

At this point you mean we have no knowledge of how to travel faster than the speed of light. Physicists say very openly they hope to find new physics that allows it to be possible but so far no dice.


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OfflineShroomFan
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: freepain]
    #7612678 - 11/08/07 08:25 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

i read on newscientist that some scientist believe there to be a layer of space and time on top of this one. So you would go up into this layer and then drop down wherever you like and that would be like teleporting, and seemingly traveling faster than light.


--------------------
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InvisiblelIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Dagnus]
    #7613864 - 11/09/07 06:13 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

it is well known that you can go faster that the speed of light in theory, if the geometry of space allows for it

it is the velocity of an object with mass that can never go above the speed of light

the reason is that it would take an infinite amount of energy to accelerate to that velocity


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: lIllIIIllIlIIlIlIIllIllIIl]
    #7613993 - 11/09/07 07:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

That's a better way to put it.

Let's say you could "space jump" or some shit where you "travel" FTL, but you are not physically "moving" FTL in real space.

If you go 186,000 miles away, and immediatly look back to where you were with a big ass telescope, then yes you would see yourself for an instant, before you jumped. That event would take one second to reach you, so you'd technically be there first.

:shrug:


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OfflineSeussA
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: FrenziedTortoise]
    #7614072 - 11/09/07 08:20 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

I'm pretty sure that scientists have propelled energy faster than light in recent, and some not so recent, experiments. That means the whole "nothing travels faster than light" thing SHOULD be bunk by now, but it hangs around because such a large portion of today's physics rests upon the assumption, and let's face it, todays physics is pretty darn accurate.




Not quite.

Imagine a bunch of people doing "the wave" in a stadium. There are two methods you can use to create "the wave". With the traditional method, each person watches the person beside them. When the person beside them stands up and sits down, then they stand up and sit down. By watching the person to your side, you are waiting for information to act upon before acting yourself. With this method, "the wave" cannot exceed the speed of light in vacuum.

Now imagine the same setup, but instead of watching the person beside you to know when to stand, you are given a watch and told to stand and sit at a specific time. With this method, the "wave" can apparently travel faster than the speed of light, but in reality it contains no information. Rather than claiming that "nothing can travel faster than light" the real statement reads "

For better understanding than I can give, do a search on "group velocity faster than light".

Given our current understanding of physics, in order to travel faster than the speed of light you must remove yourself from spacetime. (The idea of a wormhole is just this... a pathway that exists outside of spacetime.)


--------------------
Just another spore in the wind.


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Offlinejonathanseagull
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Seuss]
    #7615682 - 11/09/07 03:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You could possibly travel faster than the refracted speed of light. This occurs in quantum physics with some particle. I don't remember all of the details, but some partical travels faster than the speed of light in some medium, maybe some kind of glass. And because of this it gives off this unique blue glow, or green.

Man, I really can't remember.


--------------------
Loving in truth, and fain in verse my love to show, That the dear She might take some pleasure of my pain: Pleasure might cause her read, reading might make her know, Knowledge might pity win, and pity grace obtain.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7615792 - 11/09/07 03:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The glow that it gives off is due to Cerenkov radiation. That is the name of the radiation emitted when light is traveling too fast for its medium.

A careful distinction is in order if you are interested in the physics. Light always travels at the same speed, never faster, never slower. It doesnt matter if you are traveling or if there is a medium or anything. But there is an apparent slowing when it travels through a medium. This is because the light has to interact with the atoms. It is that interaction that slows the apparent speed. Think of it like a car that can only go 50mph when traveling. Its speed is constant, but because of traffic lights stopping it occasionally, its net speed at the end of a trip is less than 50mph.

Edit - Moral of the story is, even if it seems you can slow down light to go faster than it, you cant.


Edited by Qubit (11/09/07 05:17 PM)


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: jonathanseagull]
    #7616116 - 11/09/07 05:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The only known FTL phenomenon:



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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Dagnus]
    #7618732 - 11/10/07 01:11 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Dagnus said:
"If you were traveling faster than the speed of light, faster than the speed of time...  then there would be no time!"
1200 Micrograms- E=mc^2


What do you think of this statement?  What would be the repercussions of something like that?  Would you see things in reverse as you caught up to light ahead of you?  Overall thoughts?




Try this one on for size......

Once you reach the speed of light.......time stops for you.
You could go "anywhere in space/time"......in the blink of an eye, the universe would be an open book for you to read.......

if you could travel at the speed of light. :wink:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: niteowl]
    #7618759 - 11/10/07 01:17 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You could go "anywhere in space/time"......in the blink of an eye,

It takes millions of light years to travel to most of the stars we can see.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


Edited by Icelander (11/10/07 01:18 PM)


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Icelander]
    #7618862 - 11/10/07 01:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

At the speed of light....yes.

Faster than light.........who knows???

:shrug:

It is all speculation anyway. :strokebeard:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: niteowl]
    #7618870 - 11/10/07 01:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Just because we speculate that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to be accurate little boys.;)


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: niteowl]
    #7619161 - 11/10/07 02:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Try this one on for size......

Once you reach the speed of light.......time stops for you.
You could go "anywhere in space/time"......in the blink of an eye, the universe would be an open book for you to read.......

if you could travel at the speed of light. 



Hehe, yes for a blink of an eye...'then', the whole universe would collapse into your infinite mass :lol:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleOrgoneConclusion
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7619186 - 11/10/07 03:06 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Can anyone explain how this topic is related to philosophy? Should I post my thread: "Why I Drive Over 55"?


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: OrgoneConclusion]
    #7619317 - 11/10/07 03:45 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

There's been a lot of this here lately. Our ever watchful mods must be asleep.:doggystyle:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Seuss]
    #7619442 - 11/10/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Imagine a bunch of people doing "the wave" in a stadium.  There are two methods you can use to create "the wave".  With the traditional method, each person watches the person beside them.  When the person beside them stands up and sits down, then they stand up and sit down.  By watching the person to your side, you are waiting for information to act upon before acting yourself.  With this method, "the wave" cannot exceed the speed of light in vacuum.

Now imagine the same setup, but instead of watching the person beside you to know when to stand, you are given a watch and told to stand and sit at a specific time.  With this method, the "wave" can apparently travel faster than the speed of light, but in reality it contains no information. 




you just blew my mind :toomuchacid:


--------------------
_______________________________________________________________
namaste said:
no flamz in da ODD, if you got nothing to contribute then keep yo lips zipped
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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Seuss]
    #7619489 - 11/10/07 04:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Seuss said:
Now imagine the same setup, but instead of watching the person beside you to know when to stand, you are given a watch and told to stand and sit at a specific time. With this method, the "wave" can apparently travel faster than the speed of light, but in reality it contains no information. Rather than claiming that "nothing can travel faster than light" the real statement reads "




Actually...

I've often thought about this little thought experiment, and thought about if such a thing were even possible.

I don't think it is...and if it isn't possible, why use it as an explanation?

Relativity is the key here. You could hand out the watches and have them exactly synchronized. Then when everyone went to their seats the watches were in movement to get there. Doesn't that mean that the watches will no longer have the same time?

You would end up with a stadium in which the farther people were from you, the farther back in time their watches would read. That would have the effect of slowing down their standing.


There are other, much more solid, explanations of faster-than-light propagation...such as moving a laser pointer across a distant flat object.


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Icelander]
    #7619545 - 11/10/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I tend to let popular opinion, not mod fiat, guide the forum.

If a thread is receiving lots of view and lots of replies (201 and 25 respectively so far) even though it's not strictly on-topic, I figure the members find it sufficiently relevant to keep.

That doesn't mean I'm not watching. :smile:


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Diploid]
    #7619578 - 11/10/07 05:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

:rofl2: The "members :penis:" of this forum will respond to anything.

Don't be such a cop out.:ass:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: trendal]
    #7619607 - 11/10/07 05:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't think it is...and if it isn't possible, why use it as an explanation?

The example is apropos in that it demonstrates something physicists call the Group Velocity of a wave.

The physics experiments laypeople constantly misunderstand to mean superluminal speeds have been demonstrated actually only demonstrate superluminal Group Velocity. This does not convey information faster than the speed of light because the Signal Velocity is still no faster than light. It's INFORMATION that cannot travel faster than light according to the current understanding that is believed with very high confidence to be correct. Of course, matter can't travel faster than light either as that would convey information.

The Wave-Clock analogy is accurate because even though a distant observer would see a wave moving faster than light, no information can be passed; each file of people in the hypothetical stadium would have no way to SEE, using light, that the person before him sat down and now it's his turn to stand and sit. He can only know that it's his turn because his clock told him to before he can see that his predecessor has stood up and sat down.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Diploid]
    #7619622 - 11/10/07 05:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You so smart.:thumbup:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibletrendalM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Diploid]
    #7619633 - 11/10/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Did you read all my post?


--------------------
Once, men turned their thinking over to machines in the hope that this would set them free.
But that only permitted other men with machines to enslave them.


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: trendal]
    #7619661 - 11/10/07 05:16 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Im not sure either man...

The people in the stand are like parts of the wave. The wave does not have unsynchronized watches. I think it is basically the same concept as the laser light analogy.


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: trendal]
    #7619667 - 11/10/07 05:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Yes. The thought experiment assumes that the clocks are perfectly synchronized. This can be done in principle by someone moving a calibration clock to each person participating in the experiment when you set it up.

With foreknowledge of the distance the calibration clock has to move from person to person and the speed at which it will be moved, the relativistic equations can be used to compensate for any misalignment. In principle.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Diploid]
    #7619934 - 11/10/07 06:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It's funny to think about what would happen, if those people had to pass a ball or something, while executing their timed 'movement'.
Starting slowly at first, then getting faster. Where are the limits ? The mass of the ball ? What would one of these guys experience, if he tries to pass that ball arriving at him near TSL ?
:smile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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InvisibleDiploidM
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7619944 - 11/10/07 06:38 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

It would take more than infinite energy to accelerate the ball faster than light.


--------------------
Republican Values:

1) You can't get married to your spouse who is the same sex as you.
2) You can't have an abortion no matter how much you don't want a child.
3) You can't have a certain plant in your possession or you'll get locked up with a rapist and a murderer.

4) We need a smaller, less-intrusive government.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Diploid]
    #7619995 - 11/10/07 06:50 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I know, but what happens exactly if these people keep accelerating the ball. If the many ifs (of this theoretical experiment) were solved, so that an almost endless cue of people pass the ball to each other by a timed and studied (minimal) 'movement' of their bodies.
Maybe the ball will transform to some kind of sausage, while the guys handle the tons of mass. Just a funny thought about imagined experiences. Nothing serious.
:jointsmile:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Invisibleniteowl
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7620303 - 11/10/07 08:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

no more :bouncysmoke: for you :flowstone:

cosmic sausage  :rofl2:


--------------------
Live for the moment you are in now
Don't be bogged down by your past
Don't be afraid of what lies in your future


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OfflineDimensionX
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: niteowl]
    #7620434 - 11/10/07 09:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is my understanding, im no expert so correct me if im wrong.

Light is one of the only things we know of which has no weight. Which is amazing in itself, it dosent seems to be made of the same kind of matter as everything else. Even sound has weight, because it creates vibrations, you can push things over with sound, but you cant push something over with light. Because light has no weight, it can travel at the speed it does without being destroyed. The faster something with weight goes, the more mass it has, before it gets to the speed light travels at, it becomes so heavy that it destroys itself.

One other thing i know of which maybe has no weight, is thought. Maybe light and thought exist in a similar dimension. Light also has a tendency to have things imprinted in it, like how it captures images. Maybe our thoughts can be captured in light, and we could travel in it, kind of like in the movie k-pax.


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OfflineNoviseer
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: DimensionX]
    #7621729 - 11/11/07 11:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I know very little about physics, but if a Solar sail can be propelled by photons, doesn't that mean they have mass? If something can impact upon something else, and cause that other thing to move in the opposite direction, doesn't that mean there's mass?


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InvisibleDieCommie


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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: Noviseer]
    #7621738 - 11/11/07 11:48 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

Noviseer said:
I know very little about physics, but if a Solar sail can be propelled by photons, doesn't that mean they have mass? If something can impact upon something else, and cause that other thing to move in the opposite direction, doesn't that mean there's mass?


Nope. Pretty trippy huh? I think so. Light has momentum and can impart this momentum on an object regardless of the fact that it has no mass.

I love learning about physics because it is so tripped out and against human intuition, and it does have philosophical implications as well.


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Offlineskydog
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: DieCommie]
    #7622953 - 11/11/07 06:09 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

o_0

Light can impart momentum on another object, yet it has no mass.  Amazing :thumbup:


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OfflineRoosterCogburn
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: skydog]
    #7623839 - 11/11/07 10:13 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I thought solar sails used "solar wind" which isn't simply light... It's all kinds of charged particles, right?


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Invisiblesleepy
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: niteowl]
    #7626390 - 11/12/07 03:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

thats interesting because traveling in one directoin, faster than light, you would still be hitting light particles/waves coming at you from in front of you. that would create some kind of suction effect i think, you might create a specific gravity which would pull the light that you pass near behind you in like a wake, or like water going down a drain, and then when you slowed down it would all disperse


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OfflineDagnus
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Re: Faster than the speed of light... [Re: sleepy]
    #7628076 - 11/12/07 09:37 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

In philosophy classes they always talk about hypothetical situations. This isnt any different.


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