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lonestar2004
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Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling
#7610276 - 11/08/07 09:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.nwherald.com/articles/2007/01/06/news/nation_and_world/doc459f963bd6166014589236.txt
Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling
WASHINGTON (AP) – Opponents of oil drilling in an Alaskan wildlife refuge are going on the offense after playing defense for a quarter of a century.
They want the new Democratic Congress to make an oft-challenged drilling ban permanent.
Legislation introduced in the House on Friday would make the oil-rich 1.2 million-acre coastal strip of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge a permanently protected wilderness, and end repeated efforts to open the area east of the Prudhoe oil field to energy companies.
“The consensus is that there should not be drilling in the refuge, so the logical next step is to pass legislation which turns it into a wilderness,” Rep. Edward Markey, D-Mass., chief sponsor of the legislation, said in an interview.
Markey has introduced similar legislation in each of the last three congressional sessions.
However, the House has approved drilling in the refuge a half dozen times, only to see the effort die in the Senate, where supporters couldn’t muster the 60 votes to overcome a likely filibuster.
This time, with Democrats in the majority and a number of moderate Republicans on record as opposed to drilling, Markey believes that he has a good chance in the House to go one step farther and declare the refuge permanently off-limits to oil development.
A co-sponsor of the bill is Rep. Jim Ramstad, R-Minn.
Cindy Shogan, executive director of the Alaska Wilderness League, also says this time is different.
“What’s changed is we won’t have those daily assaults” from pro-drilling forces, she said. “We are definitely on the offense.”
Environmentalists said they plan to mobilize the same people that have fought drilling proposals in past years behind the Markey-Ramstad legislation.
Two years ago, when Republicans expanded their majorities in both the House and Senate, the likelihood of opening the refuge to oil development gained new momentum. It already had been a top energy priority of President Bush since 2001.
“Many people had written the obituary for the refuge,” said Melinda Pierce, legislative director of the Sierra Club. But a concerted push by pro-drilling forces fell short.
Now Markey believes the momentum is going the other way.
“We now have a majority of House members that have publicly said they oppose any drilling in the refuge. In the previous Congress we were battling the Republicans in the majority who wanted to drill.”
Environmentalist know that in the Senate they will need 60 votes to get the wilderness designation, with the filibuster threat coming from Republicans this time. Sen. Ted Stevens, R-Alaska, who has battled to open the refuge to oil drilling for a quarter century, has not given up.
The coastal strip of ANWR, as the refuge is commonly referred to, is believed to contain 10.5 billion barrels of oil, approaching the size of the Prudhoe Bay field to the west. At peak production the refuge could supply 1 million barrels a day by 2025, according to the Interior Department.
On the other hand, to environmentalists and conservationists the refuge’s coastal strip represents the ultimate wild place to be protected. They compare it to the Serengeti in Africa because of the wildlife that abound: polar bears, musk oxen, caribou and millions of migratory birds that fly there as part of their annual migration.
Drilling proponents argue that modern technology can limit the footprint on the coastal tundra and develop the oil without disturbing the wildlife.
Bush, who called for opening the refuge during his 2000 presidential campaign, repeatedly has said its environment can be protected alongside oil rigs. He views the refuge’s oil as essential to lessening America’s dependence on foreign energy sources.
Markey disagrees.
“Our addiction to oil is real (but) drilling in the refuge would amount to a declaration that we remain in denial about this addiction,” he said.
“There are some places in our world that are so rare and so special, that we have a responsibility to protect them.”
––––
The bill is H.R.39
.
The Democrats hate oil, nuclear,wind, and coal...they want $5.00 a gallon gas....
In the meantime..east of the our artic border the Canadians are drilling like hell. .
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Seuss
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Re: Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610316 - 11/08/07 09:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> The Democrats hate oil, nuclear,wind, and coal...they want $5.00 a gallon gas....
I hate pollution, thus I dislike oil, coal, and nuclear. Wind has potential, but we must be careful of impacting wildlife. I already pay $4.00 a gallon for gas... and I am not a Dem. I think your assumptions are a bit loose.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7610395 - 11/08/07 10:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > The Democrats hate oil, nuclear,wind, and coal...they want $5.00 a gallon gas....
I hate pollution, thus I dislike oil, coal, and nuclear. Wind has potential, but we must be careful of impacting wildlife. I already pay $4.00 a gallon for gas... and I am not a Dem. I think your assumptions are a bit loose.
What irony....
You remind me of my grand-mother in west palm beach. She also hates oil, coal, and nuclear and has contributed thousand of dollars to politicians and environmental groups to make sure America does not drill oil offshore Florida.
"It was announced that China has entered into a billion-dollar agreement with Cuba for oil exploration offshore. We cannot drill 100 miles offshore in the Gulf of Mexico, but China will be."
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/opinion/sfl-brmail915pnnov07,0,4292270.story
my grandmother is not happy....
I told her maybe if we're lucky, we'll buy some oil from Fidel Castro some day soon!
The irony is that the Chinese drilling offshore Florida is a serious environmental hazard.
Do u really think the Chinese are concerned about the ENVIRONMENT?
They are not even equipped to deal with any potential ecological disaster as a result of a spill.....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
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Re: Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610408 - 11/08/07 10:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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It's a much wiser investment to start looking into alternative fuels now than delay the inevitable. BTW, I don't see how China's oil drilling is a factor here.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7610438 - 11/08/07 10:14 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: It's a much wiser investment to start looking into alternative fuels now than delay the inevitable. BTW, I don't see how China's oil drilling is a factor here.
"It's a much wiser investment to start looking into alternative fuels"
I agree!
But the reality is the world needs energy NOW! And if we don't produce regulated clean energy someone else will produce unregulated dirty energy.
And the world is smaller than you think....
"In early April, a dense cloud of pollutants over Northern China sailed to nearby Seoul, sweeping along dust and desert sand before wafting across the Pacific. An American satellite spotted the cloud as it crossed the West Coast. Researchers in California, Oregon and Washington noticed specks of sulfur compounds, carbon and other byproducts of coal combustion coating the silvery surfaces of their mountaintop detectors. These microscopic particles can work their way deep into the lungs, contributing to respiratory damage, heart disease and cancer. Filters near Lake Tahoe in the mountains of eastern California "are the darkest that we've seen" outside smoggy urban areas"
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/business/worldbusiness/11chinacoal.html?ex=1307678400en=e9ac1f6255a24fd8ei=5088partner=rssnytemc=rss
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610604 - 11/08/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Proposed coal plant in western Kansas is rejected
http://www.kansascity.com/105/story/323833.html
"Delivering a stunning victory to those concerned about global climate change, Kansas’ top regulator rejected a proposal to build a coal plant in western Kansas."
Hypocrites...
Meanwhile The Chinese are currently building one new UNREGULATED coal-fired power plant every week to ten days.......
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610623 - 11/08/07 11:03 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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So, we should compete with the Chinese to see who can pollute more? Sounds like a losing strategy to me.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7610673 - 11/08/07 11:17 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said: So, we should compete with the Chinese to see who can pollute more? Sounds like a losing strategy to me.
even that Dumbass Barrack Obama understands what i am trying to say...
"And we must find a way to stop coal from polluting our atmosphere without pretending that our nation's most abundant energy source will just go away. It won't."
"Already, some coal pollution from China's dirty plants is making its way to California. That's why we must invest in clean coal technologies that we can use at home and share with the world."
Barack Obama
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610702 - 11/08/07 11:23 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Wind energy holds much greater promise, as does geothermal. However, the real energy solution is rather than building new power plants to instead have several buildings supplying their own electricity via photovoltaic cells and specially designed windmills for roofs. Wind power is also great for rural areas, as farmers can opt to have them on their farmland and make extra money each month selling electricity to the grid.
BTW, Obama was talking about the latest buzzword: "clean" coal technology. The problem is that not a single clean coal plant has yet been built, I see nothing in that article indicating that this proposed coal plant would be any different.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610718 - 11/08/07 11:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If we dumped the money that we are putting into securing oil interests (i.e. war on terror) into fusion research, there would no longer be an energy problem. However, a whole lot of very wealthy people would immediately lose their monopoly.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7610721 - 11/08/07 11:27 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Texas leads US states in installed wind power
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7610725 - 11/08/07 11:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: Texas leads US states in installed wind power
Yes, I'm aware of that. And I must grudgingly admit that Dubya had a lot to do with that. If only he could apply that lesson nationwide.
--------------------
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7610765 - 11/08/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hear ya.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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afoaf
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7610767 - 11/08/07 11:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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they are only a few mil short for the working prototype...I can't find the link but it could be a reality if we'd throw some small change at the project.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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BrAiN
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7610808 - 11/08/07 11:45 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I think we can solve two problems at once
Instead of wind power we just have 500 acres worth of hamster wheels. Any illegal immigrant caught who doesn't want to get deported can run , run and SPINNNNN their way to an early citizenship!
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: BrAiN]
#7610810 - 11/08/07 11:46 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I am George Bush, and I support this message.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7610843 - 11/08/07 11:52 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: fusion research,
what type of fusion?
Nuclear fusion power? The environmentalists would never allow it.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: BrAiN]
#7610849 - 11/08/07 11:53 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you're a mess...
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7610901 - 11/08/07 12:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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omg, I can't find the information on the american scientist who has been driving this research.
he passed away recently
they have a working model that has proven successful in scaled trials but they require like 2mil to get the full scale model built and running.
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gluke bastid
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611034 - 11/08/07 12:40 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
what type of fusion?
Nuclear fusion power? The environmentalists would never allow it.
Fusion power does not result in any pollutants, nor is it dangerous in the manner of Fission. Proven functioning nuclear Fusion technology is the holy grail for any environmentalist, and the pandora's box for any oil baron.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: gluke bastid]
#7611080 - 11/08/07 12:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well then bring it on!
shit it costs almost a C note to fill up truck!
Sadly the more i read about it the more it seems like a hoax...
If it had any potential someone like Bill Gates would have invested a few hundred million dollars towards it years ago....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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afoaf
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611094 - 11/08/07 12:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
Edited by afoaf (11/08/07 01:04 PM)
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7611114 - 11/08/07 01:01 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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sounds great, why no investors?
the easiest way for the rich to get richer is to invent a new source of wealth.......
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611136 - 11/08/07 01:05 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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it's been recently opened, it was a Navy project for a while.
Bussard passed recently, this coupled with the funding cut as a result of wartime spending reprioritization has probably complicated things.
The project only recently halted, but quite dramatically as they reached a point where they can build a revised working model.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7611140 - 11/08/07 01:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I honestly Hope it comes true soon. Really cheap energy would solve a lot of problems.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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gluke bastid
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611222 - 11/08/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: I honestly Hope it comes true soon. Really cheap energy would solve a lot of problems.
It would solve some of our biggest problems.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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afoaf
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611314 - 11/08/07 01:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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you can donate to the project.
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7611421 - 11/08/07 02:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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When someone has a proven working device and they are ready to build the power plant. i will invest some $$$$$$$$$$$$ along with many other greedy people/countries.
Same with cure for cancer etc.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
Edited by lonestar2004 (11/08/07 02:32 PM)
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lonestar2004
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611431 - 11/08/07 02:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/6583/project015.html
Cold Fusion Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ)
"We believe that before the year 2000 there will be prototype cold fusion powered automobiles, home heating systems, and compact electrical generating units.:"
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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zappaisgod
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7611547 - 11/08/07 02:57 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said:
Quote:
Seuss said: fusion research,
what type of fusion?
Nuclear fusion power? The environmentalists would never allow it.
It is the only hope. Everything else is a wank.
--------------------
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zorbman
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: gluke bastid]
#7613139 - 11/08/07 10:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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There is no technofix for this particular problem. As long as any energy surplus is only used to further expand the global population as in the past, we are only delaying the inevitable.
Which is a thinning of the herd.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7613746 - 11/09/07 04:04 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> When someone has a proven working device and they are ready to build the power plant
The problem is you won't. Fusion power, once working, is free power. There is no return for your monetary investment, and unfortunately, it requires a huge monetary investment to make it work. So, unless you have a few hundred billion dollars to flush away for the good of mankind, you have no reason to invest in the technology and every reason not to.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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afoaf
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7616434 - 11/09/07 06:59 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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it's not globally free energy with unlimited capacity.
as long as it requires large capital expenditure for the infrastructure there is still a market since none of us will be able to DIY a IEC in our garage.
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carbonhoots
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7616996 - 11/09/07 09:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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If that thing really worked, they could raise two million pretty quick.
-------------------- -I'd rather have a frontal lobotomy than a bottle in front of me CANADIAN CENTER FOR POLICY ALTERNATIVES
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Luddite
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Re: Dems hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7617934 - 11/10/07 09:02 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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ANWR isn't the only place in Alaska to find oil
Oil in Alaska http://www7.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0605/feature1/index.html
Shell is planning to make oil from oil shale and putting it on the market in the near future. http://money.cnn.com/2007/10/30/magazines/fortune/Oil_from_stone.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007110111
I own 40 shares of this stock which more than doubled at the price I bought it at. http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/articles/apwire/97d776ca002e33bf2a96b84abd742c3c.htm They believe they found another 8 billion barrels of oil. I bought a news letter for about $49 for half a year subscription mainly about oil and natural gas companies and I bought only one of their recommendations, PBR, and I'm up over $2,000 for that investment in less than a year. I'm getting your money, juvenile delinquents! That's right! http://bigcharts.marketwatch.com/quickchart/quickchart.asp?symb=pbr&sid=0&o_symb=pbr&x=27&y=6
Also, there's companies that are working on making natural gas and gasoline from coal.
Those US owned companies are working you hard, Canadian juvenile delinquents, and putting a lot of the money into my pocket. See how they're doing it here. Those puppet politicians in Canada are working for Washington and Supply Side Jesus! That's right, hippies! http://www.canadianedge.com
Edited by Luddite (11/10/07 09:19 AM)
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nakors_junk_bag
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7618826 - 11/10/07 01:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: If we dumped the money that we are putting into securing oil interests (i.e. war on terror) into fusion research, there would no longer be an energy problem. However, a whole lot of very wealthy people would immediately lose their monopoly.
I am curious, how long and how much money do you think it would take to convert every car and every other fossil fueled power machine into a fusion powered machine?
For the foreseeable future, fossil fuels are the way it simply has to be. Or, maybe not foreseeable future, but for sometime yet to come.
When the world is as densely populated per square inch as NYC, then we simply won't need cars and things such as that, it will be awesome, the only things needing fuel will be transport vessels(planes, boats, and whatever else we have invented) It will be awesome! We can walk to a place within minutes and find whatever it is we are searching for. Maybe, by the time that happens fusion energy will be a viable option.
-------------------- Asshole
Edited by nakors_junk_bag (11/10/07 01:41 PM)
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zorbman
blarrr



Registered: 06/04/04
Posts: 5,952
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7618914 - 11/10/07 01:49 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
When the world is as densely populated per square inch as NYC, then we simply won't need cars and things such as that, it will be awesome, the only things needing fuel will be transport vessels(planes, boats, and whatever else we have invented) It will be awesome!
You really need to watch 'Soylent Green' for a reality check.
-------------------- “The crisis takes a much longer time coming than you think, and then it happens much faster than you would have thought.” -- Rudiger Dornbusch
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7618927 - 11/10/07 01:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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And still, even after we have cyphered a way to utilize fusion, it wouldn't be at all a bad idea to control the rest of the world's fuel resources, or do we allow them the same luxuries of fusion as a we ourselves. One of the reasons we beat Germany in the second world war was because we had so much gas, and at that time they virtually had none. What if they had had an unlimited supply, things might be different now.
The ramifications of everything while non apparent are still relevant. These kinds of shifts take years to plan strategically on all levels of the Geo-political spectrum.
-------------------- Asshole
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nakors_junk_bag
Lobster Bisque



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: zorbman]
#7618943 - 11/10/07 01:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
zorbman said:
Quote:
When the world is as densely populated per square inch as NYC, then we simply won't need cars and things such as that, it will be awesome, the only things needing fuel will be transport vessels(planes, boats, and whatever else we have invented) It will be awesome!
You really need to watch 'Soylent Green' for a reality check.
How many acres of land are we going to devote to growing gas for our machines?
Eventually we will run out of land healthy enough to feed our cars, the corns simply won't grow because the soil is nutrient depleted and then we have the same problem. Its is only a renewable resource as long as we have acreage to grow it. So if you think that green gas is the way to go, sure maybe for a little while.
-------------------- Asshole
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KidgardFromSRQ
Strange


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: nakors_junk_bag]
#7622554 - 11/11/07 04:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I say hemp is the answer. But it'd also pollinate high quality outdoor crops everywhere :-(
-------------------- Be nice to people in general. Even if you don't like them.
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7623004 - 11/11/07 06:23 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: So, unless you have a few hundred billion dollars to flush away for the good of mankind, you have no reason to invest in the technology and every reason not to.
If I had a few billion dollars I would flush it away for the good of humanity, but I guess it is that kind of thinking that gets in the way of me making a few billion dollars.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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a_guy_named_ai
Stranger

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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7626467 - 11/12/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I hope both parties wake up and move towards utilizing hemp fuel. Then we won't have to worry about anwar and Iraq, and save billions of dollars at the same time. Anwar is irrelevent.
The question isn't " should they drill in anwar?". The question is, " Why Should we be using fossil fuels still when there is a better option?"
Go hemp!
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



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Posts: 3,926
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7626790 - 11/12/07 05:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:03 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


Registered: 10/03/04
Posts: 8,978
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Exactly. The question shouldn't be, "Where is more oil going to come from?", but rather, "What source is going to be utilized for energy instead of fossil fuels?"
I can see the future....
People FREEZING TO DEATH because the cost of heating oil has outstripped their ability to pay....Lots of dead bodies..
The Democrats will scream Americans have a RIGHT to heat!"
Then they'll tax the fuck out of the rest of us so the Democrats can buy heating oil for people that can't afford it.
All because the Democrats acted to MAKE it so expensive in the FIRST place!
This is all about CONTROL.....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7626894 - 11/12/07 05:32 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
lonestar2004 said: I can see the future....
People FREEZING TO DEATH because the cost of heating oil has outstripped their ability to pay....Lots of dead bodies..
The Democrats will scream Americans have a RIGHT to heat!"
Then they'll tax the fuck out of the rest of us so the Democrats can buy heating oil for people that can't afford it.
All because the Democrats acted to MAKE it so expensive in the FIRST place!
This is all about CONTROL.....
And people think it's the liberals who are fear-mongering moonbats.
--------------------
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7626914 - 11/12/07 05:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
And people think it's the liberals who are fear-mongering moonbats.
this moonbat understands The law of supply and demand....
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7626937 - 11/12/07 05:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Apparently you don't understand the supply part very well.
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7627034 - 11/12/07 05:56 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh please, Without political interference, the energy crisis would be would not be as bad.
We have an abundance of oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear potential. Most of our energy potential is off limits.
Most of our energy potential is off limits.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7627042 - 11/12/07 05:58 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Higher taxes, higher taxes, no drilling, no refineries, no gasoline, no nukes for you, there now it’s all fixed.:)
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7627092 - 11/12/07 06:07 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
oh please, Without political interference, the energy crisis would be would not be as bad.
Indeed. Big Oil would not receive all the subsidies it currently gets, and we would have moved to alternative fuels a long time ago.
Quote:
We have an abundance of oil, natural gas, coal, and nuclear potential. Most of our energy potential is off limits.
Most of our energy potential is given an unfair disadvantage because of government subsidies for their preferred energy sources. Nuclear power would take a nose dive in a competitive market.
Quote:
Higher taxes, higher taxes, no drilling, no refineries, no gasoline, no nukes for you, there now it’s all fixed.
Taxes are MUCH lower than they were 30 years ago, and we seemed to be doing fine back then. And I'll gladly take ethanol or biodiesel over gasoline.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7627554 - 11/12/07 07:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:04 PM)
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lonestar2004
Live to party,work to affordit.


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IMO the Federal Government needs to get out and let the environmentalist and private industry come up with something.
-------------------- America's debt problem is a "sign of leadership failure" We have "reckless fiscal policies" America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better Barack Obama
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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fusion...the links are in the thread.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7628175 - 11/12/07 10:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:04 PM)
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: lonestar2004]
#7628890 - 11/13/07 04:39 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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> IMO the Federal Government needs to get out and let the environmentalist
Most environmentalists are as bad as the federal government, if not worse. Eco-terrorists for the most part. (I do not include environmental scientists under this blanket accusation.)
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Seuss
Error: divide byzero



Registered: 04/27/01
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: gluke bastid]
#7628895 - 11/13/07 04:42 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
If I had a few billion dollars I would flush it away for the good of humanity, but I guess it is that kind of thinking that gets in the way of me making a few billion dollars.
I couldn't have said it better.
-------------------- Just another spore in the wind.
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Seuss]
#7629558 - 11/13/07 09:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Seuss said: > IMO the Federal Government needs to get out and let the environmentalist
Most environmentalists are as bad as the federal government, if not worse. Eco-terrorists for the most part. (I do not include environmental scientists under this blanket accusation.)
MOST environmentalists? I happen to know quite a few of them(and happen to be one myself). Justify your claim, sir. I'm particularly interested in how you define "eco-terrorism"(lest I be sent to Gitmo for wanting clean water and air).
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7629771 - 11/13/07 10:50 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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oh, firebombing hummer dealerships, housing developments, spiking trees...that type of shit.
[edited: no loggers have been killed from tree spikes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_spiking)]
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
Edited by afoaf (11/13/07 11:50 AM)
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: a_guy_named_ai]
#7629795 - 11/13/07 10:55 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
jonathan_206 said: I hope both parties wake up and move towards utilizing hemp fuel. Then we won't have to worry about anwar and Iraq, and save billions of dollars at the same time. Anwar is irrelevent.
The question isn't " should they drill in anwar?". The question is, " Why Should we be using fossil fuels still when there is a better option?"
Go hemp!
Well I sort of agree but not entirely. I don't agree that ANWAR is irrelevent. The truth is that the US consumes an insane amount of oil, and there is evidence to suggest that there is a lot of oil in that part of the world.
Take into consideration that wildnerness preservation is maybe the only Federal Government Program that I am behind 100%. I don't even feel like I need to waste any time describing why we need the government to protect certain tracts of wilderness. If you don't agree you never will.
However, when I look at the situation in the middle east, I ask if that is a reasonable price to pay for oil. The answer is no, not when there are energy alternatives. The fact that the government hardly spends any money on renewable energy, yet pours billions of dollars directly into the oil industry and then guts open Iraq to domestic oil interests drives me insane every time I think about it. This sort of behavior has to stop and it has to stop NOW.
I would be in support of drilling in ANWAR if it were part of an overall move towards lessening our dependancy on foreign oil and increasing our dependancy on simple, clean, renewable energy sources. Wind, Solar, Water, and Fusion, and a cap on coal power plants with federal laws in regards to scrubbers in the smoke stacks (to both reduce pollution across the board but also to create a fair playing field across state lines). Politicians talk about this kind of stuff but it is all bullshit. Both Dems and Republicans know that oil is key to keeping America relatively prosperous, and no one in any real position of power is going to find a way to make this happen. The cost is just too high.
So it should be obvious to anyone that ANWAR drilling is not such a maneuver towards lessening our foreign oil dependance. America is a mutilated oil-junkie, covered in track marks, and Alaska is merely the untapped penis vein. If we opened it up for drilling tommorow we would still be protecting our overseas oil access. The government and the oil industry will not stop pursuing oil until the bottom drops out.
However I am optimistic. I am actually optimistic that the collapse of oil will simply let the renewable energy market explode. For that reason, part of me wonders whether or not we should speed the coming of collapse. If the only way to control the oil market is to take it out back and have it shot in the head by federal legislation on behalf of the pathetic democratic party, well than that is just what we have to do. Maybe we can at least have some wilderness left and won't have to intervene in the Middle East anymore.
This was a ramble. I'm not entirely sure if I believe what I am saying, but thought I might throw it in here.
--------------------
Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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gluke bastid
Stinky Bum



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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7629811 - 11/13/07 10:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Silversoul said:
Quote:
Seuss said: > IMO the Federal Government needs to get out and let the environmentalist
Most environmentalists are as bad as the federal government, if not worse. Eco-terrorists for the most part. (I do not include environmental scientists under this blanket accusation.)
MOST environmentalists? I happen to know quite a few of them(and happen to be one myself). Justify your claim, sir. I'm particularly interested in how you define "eco-terrorism"(lest I be sent to Gitmo for wanting clean water and air).
Yeah, what are you saying Seuss? That most environmentalists are eco-terrorists? Or there is no difference? Please elaborate.
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Society in every form is a blessing, but government at its best is but a necessary evil - Thomas Paine
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7629814 - 11/13/07 10:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
afoaf said: oh, firebombing hummer dealerships, housing developments, killing loggers...that type of shit.
Oh ya, I know TONS of people who do that stuff. It's all the rage here in Oregon.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: afoaf]
#7629822 - 11/13/07 11:00 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:05 PM)
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Quote:
EntheogenicPeace said:
Quote:
oh, firebombing hummer dealerships, housing developments, killing loggers...that type of shit.
I know the first two are well-documented & even admitted by "eco-terrorists", but have there been instances of the latter in the U.S.?
It's usually done by putting pieces of metal in the tree so the chainsaw bounces back and kills the loggers.
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EntheogenicPeace
Scholar



Registered: 10/04/05
Posts: 3,926
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Re: Dem's hope to ban Alaskan oil drilling [Re: Silversoul]
#7630023 - 11/13/07 11:35 AM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Edited by EntheogenicPeace (01/30/21 07:05 PM)
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
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http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ecoterrorist+loggers+spikes&btnG=Google+Search
you're right, no one has been killed as of yet.
but there are references of injuries.
the practice is well documented in materials distributed by groups such as Earth First.
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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