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InvisibleMonstroniuM
The Original Juggernaut
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What didn't I do right? (WBS)
    #7609602 - 11/08/07 12:24 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, well after a successful classic PF technique grow, I wanted to step up my game and try a new technique. I chose WBS, it looked like more reward to work ratio, than BRF cakes did. So, I set out got my seeds, soaked them for the better part of 36 hours (maybe more), for the sheer fact that I just had no time to get to them, and did not simmer. I strained, rinsed, repeated x2, each strainer full a couple of time because they were kinda gooey from sitting so long. I filled 12 quart jars, pressure cooked for 60-90 minutes at 15psi. Removed them, shook them vigorously, and then let them sit in the glove box that was heavily doused in Lysol the day before, for 2 days. Again because I had absolutely no time to get to them. I then proceeded to inoculated them with a LC on the 25th of October, 5 of them have already fallen victim to some crazy contaminants I have never seen before (some black, some green, etc). The others that managed to survive, are JUST now starting to signs of any growth. They are in a TiT style incubator (only use during winter as it gets rather chilly inside/outside the house.) which is at a steady 82°-84°.

I don't know if it would be easier to try again, this time not neglecting them for so long, or just hold out, and let them mycellium creep along at its UBER slow pace. Any input, recommendations, criticism, or opinions are greatly appreciated. And thanks in advance.

-Monstro


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OfflineAnnoA
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7609608 - 11/08/07 12:28 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Black and green sounds like mold contatmination, which is not likely to result from your grain preparation technique, but came in either during the inoculation, pr with the inoculum itself.


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Posts: 207
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: Anno]
    #7609620 - 11/08/07 12:32 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Wouldn't doubt it, they were already contaminated about 12 hours after being knocked up. But the remaining jars are looking good, with the exception of just now showing growth. I tried the WBS tek, because I read multiple times, wbs + lc = colonized in a matter of 10-20 days. Much less then the BRF cakes.


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OfflineTripleTree3
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: Anno]
    #7609621 - 11/08/07 12:34 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I don't see any reason to toss any of the healthy jars that show growth. Next time though, I can't stress enough how much of a difference simmering makes. Also getting all the slimy stuff off is key. What TEK were you using just out of curiosity?


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: TripleTree3]
    #7609643 - 11/08/07 12:47 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Well I don't really know which technique, all the WBS technique seem to be very similar. With the exception of some techniques soaking the seeds in the jars, instead of the pot/simmer. But I believe it was pieces of Docs WBS tek, and 1 other that I can't remember the name of, mainly Docs though. It's rather temping to chuck em though and just start over.


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OfflineTripleTree3
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7609660 - 11/08/07 12:54 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

If you follow Doc's step by step you really can't go wrong. It might take a few tries to get down but it's worth it. As for chucking em and starting over that's completely up to you. If you're not happy this far and have the resources then go for it. AFOAF had some WBS jars fully colonize in under two weeks. Good luck


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Offlinechubbmeister
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM] * 1
    #7609665 - 11/08/07 12:57 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

is there a lot of water in the jars? it takes a while to get the water content for wbs right.too much water will contam and/or be very slow to colonize.i let my grain drain overnight to make sure there good.someone posted the spoon test a while ago,if you scoop some wbs and only a little seed sticks to spoon then it's good to go, if a lot stick to the spoon let it drain longer.good luck.


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: TripleTree3]
    #7609670 - 11/08/07 12:59 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

A slow jar may never finish so you may want to consider whether that might not be your will (and plan ahead accordingly).

Birdseed isn't really any harder than PF apart from needing a PC. If you own a PC there really isn't any reason whatsoever to do a PF tek any more.


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7609704 - 11/08/07 01:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I have 2 PC's and I would really like to steer clear from the PF technique. I wanted to do a WBS, spawned to straw bulk grow, but this isn't looking good so far. I take it I should just throw em out, and try again eh?


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7609791 - 11/08/07 01:58 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MonstroniuM said:
I have 2 PC's and I would really like to steer clear from the PF technique. I wanted to do a WBS, spawned to straw bulk grow, but this isn't looking good so far. I take it I should just throw em out, and try again eh?




Since it has been close to 2 weeks and you've not got much going I would redo them.  I would obviously redo the ones that have already been trashed due to contamination.  The slow growing ones is borderline but with it being done by an LC it doesn't sound awfully good.

Definitely do not use that LC batch again :smile:

Don't get discouraged by this though, from the perspective of doing the right thing of preparation of the WBS you sound like you were ok.  Its just the actually inoculation that seems to have gone wrong somewhere.

Good luck


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OfflineCaptainLinger
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7609821 - 11/08/07 02:26 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

This is why I usually tell anyone new to avoid LCs. They're great, yes...but now we can't close to narrow down your contamination source. It does sound like you might've inoculated in some spore-y air, though; use a glovebox next time.

12 hours is far too soon to see any non-preexisting mold growth.

Skip the simmer. Skip the LC...would be my advice.


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
The Original Juggernaut
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Loc: Florida, USA Flag
Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: CaptainLinger]
    #7610287 - 11/08/07 09:15 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Alright, well I am going to scrap them. I do believe it was the already used syringes, and not the LC batch itself. They were the original syringes I got the spores in, and kept them because I was kinda clueless as to where I would get new ones.. Thanks for the input guys.


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7612632 - 11/08/07 08:10 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

MonstroniuM said:
Alright, well I am going to scrap them. I do believe it was the already used syringes, and not the LC batch itself. They were the original syringes I got the spores in, and kept them because I was kinda clueless as to where I would get new ones.. Thanks for the input guys.




You did sterilize them before reusing them right?


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InvisibleGlacier Creek
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Registered: 09/23/07
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: yepyepyep]
    #7612717 - 11/08/07 08:36 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Just a question. What type of lids are you using? If polyfil, did it maybe get wet? Just wanted to check. I live in a very heavy mold spore region, and I cant seem to contam a jar. I just use "basic" cleaning habits, and use a glovebox, and I rarely if ever contam WBS, popcorn, or rye.

One reason I attribute to this is making tyvek/silcone lids. They don't get wet, and are self sealing. I contamed 1 out of 5 polyfil jars from shaking after pcing, or just getting it wet somehow. The only thing I think polyfil is good for is airports, and tubs. Just a thought.


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Registered: 09/02/07
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: Glacier Creek]
    #7612909 - 11/08/07 09:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I was thinking that too, because after inspection of the polyfill, some of them were indeed wet, which is beyond me. I have jar-> tyvek piece-> lid with poly fil -> ring, just like the TEK explained. And they were covered with two layers of tin foil when in the PC. I really wanted to do those lids, but can't find the thread that shows you how to make them.


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InvisibleMonstroniuM
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: Glacier Creek]
    #7612914 - 11/08/07 09:31 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Double post, sorry.


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Edited by MonstroniuM (11/08/07 09:31 PM)


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Offlineyepyepyep
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7616600 - 11/09/07 07:42 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

You can use double foil over a glass as a lid (not even a jar) with WBS and as long as you're careful you won't get contamination.


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Invisibletakk
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Re: What didn't I do right? (WBS) [Re: MonstroniuM]
    #7616632 - 11/09/07 07:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

sounds like lc was tainted
wbs is great :wink:
don't bother with simmering, just soak long enough (which you did!)
Next time test your lc's out on one jar at a time! Test different sterility procedures and see what works for you! Good luck! :thumbup:


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