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LucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend



Registered: 05/09/03
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Loc: Planet of the Stupid Peop...
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Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion
#7608488 - 11/07/07 07:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
Under torture after his rendition to Egypt *<with a first class plane trip courtesy of the CIA>*, al Libi had provided a confession of how Saddam Hussein had been training al Qaeda in chemical weapons. This evidence was used by Colin Powell at the United Nations a year earlier (February 2003) to justify the war in Iraq. ("I can trace the story of a senior terrorist operative telling how Iraq provided training in these [chemical and biological] weapons to al Qaeda," Powell said. "Fortunately, this operative is now detained, and he has told his story.")
But now, hearing how the information was obtained, the CIA was soon to retract all this intelligence. A Feb. 5 cable records that al Libi was told by a "foreign government service" (Egypt) that: "the next topic was al-Qa'ida's connections with Iraq...This was a subject about which he said he knew nothing and had difficulty even coming up with a story."
Al Libi indicated that his interrogators did not like his responses and then "placed him in a small box approximately 50cm X 50cm [20 inches x 20 inches]." He claimed he was held in the box for approximately 17 hours. When he was let out of the box, al Libi claims that he was given a last opportunity to "tell the truth." When al Libi did not satisfy the interrogator, al Libi claimed that "he was knocked over with an arm thrust across his chest and he fell on his back." Al Libi told CIA debriefers that he then "was punched for 15 minutes." (Sourced to CIA cable, Feb. 5, 2004).
The information came almost one year before the president and other administration members first began to confirm the existence of the CIA rendition program, assuring the nation that "torture is never acceptable, nor do we hand over people to countries that do torture." (New York Times, Jan. 28, 2005)
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2007/11/cia-rendition-t.html
No doubt the "ticking time bomb" people will be along any moment to tell us that this saved our country from unspeakable horrors. But the truth is plain: using torture, our government can come up with a justification to invade or bomb anyone they dislike based on hearsay so ridiculous that it won't stand up in any court of law. If we hadn't handed this guy over to Egypt with a nod and a wink, it would have been that much harder for Dick & George to have their little war.
Yet we still have people urging us on to greater heights of torture. What's a little waterboarding? Everyone does it. College pranks. Meanwhile...
Quote:
al Libi, who told fellow prisoners in Bagram he was returned to U.S. custody from Egypt on Nov. 22, 2003, has disappeared. He was not among the "high-value prisoners" transferred to Guantanamo last year.
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: LucidDream]
#7608801 - 11/07/07 08:47 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Me and my old roommates used to take everything out of the refrigerator and take turns chillin' in it on hot summer days when the A/C wasn't working.
But nobody that isn't a professional contortionist can fit inside a 20x20" box..
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: elbisivni]
#7611607 - 11/08/07 03:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Waterboarding isn't torture.
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7611727 - 11/08/07 03:35 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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simulated drowning isn't torture?
how long are they allowed to be held under water until it is torture?
is it only torture if they die?
-------------------- All I know is The Growery is a place where losers who get banned here go.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: afoaf]
#7611862 - 11/08/07 04:08 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Does it leave a mark? Damage? Nope. Just discomfort. Much like listening to Britney Spears.
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LucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend



Registered: 05/09/03
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7611910 - 11/08/07 04:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Waterboarding isn't torture.
Malcom Nance disagrees with you:
Quote:
As a former Master Instructor and Chief of Training at the US Navy Survival, Evasion, Resistance and Escape School (SERE) in San Diego, California I know the waterboard personally and intimately. SERE staff were required undergo the waterboard at its fullest. I was no exception. I have personally led, witnessed and supervised waterboarding of hundreds of people. It has been reported that both the Army and Navy SERE school’s interrogation manuals were used to form the interrogation techniques used by the US army and the CIA for its terror suspects. What was not mentioned in most articles was that SERE was designed to show how an evil totalitarian, enemy would use torture at the slightest whim. If this is the case, then waterboarding is unquestionably being used as torture technique.
There is No Debate Except for Torture Apologists
1. Waterboarding is a torture technique. Period. There is no way to gloss over it or sugarcoat it. It has no justification outside of its limited role as a training demonstrator. Our service members have to learn that the will to survive requires them accept and understand that they may be subjected to torture, but that America is better than its enemies and it is one’s duty to trust in your nation and God, endure the hardships and return home with honor.
2. Waterboarding is not a simulation. Unless you have been strapped down to the board, have endured the agonizing feeling of the water overpowering your gag reflex, and then feel your throat open and allow pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs, you will not know the meaning of the word.
Waterboarding is a controlled drowning that, in the American model, occurs under the watch of a doctor, a psychologist, an interrogator and a trained strap-in/strap-out team. It does not simulate drowning, as the lungs are actually filling with water. There is no way to simulate that. The victim is drowning. How much the victim is to drown depends on the desired result (in the form of answers to questions shouted into the victim’s face) and the obstinacy of the subject. A team doctor watches the quantity of water that is ingested and for the physiological signs which show when the drowning effect goes from painful psychological experience, to horrific suffocating punishment to the final death spiral.
Waterboarding is slow motion suffocation with enough time to contemplate the inevitability of black out and expiration –usually the person goes into hysterics on the board. For the uninitiated, it is horrifying to watch and if it goes wrong, it can lead straight to terminal hypoxia. When done right it is controlled death. Its lack of physical scarring allows the victim to recover and be threaten with its use again and again.
http://smallwarsjournal.com/blog/2007/10/waterboarding-is-torture-perio/
Perhaps you saw Nance testify today to the House Judiciary Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties regarding "enhanced interrogation" techniques. But regardless, Nance knows what he's talking about. You do not.
Edited by LucidDream (11/08/07 04:31 PM)
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elbisivni
Registered: 10/01/06
Posts: 2,839
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: afoaf]
#7611915 - 11/08/07 04:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Well yeah, it's fucking torture. Whether or not it is an unreasonable method of torture is another question.
Don't let yourself become confused by the lexicon of the mass media.
Enhanced Interrogation Techniques
-------------------- From dust you are made and to dust you shall return.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: LucidDream]
#7611923 - 11/08/07 04:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Nance is a Nancy. All it is is uncomfortable. Like a Lance Bass video.
"If done wrong..." If surgery is done wrong people die. What's his point? Or yours?
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


Registered: 02/11/04
Posts: 81,741
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7611941 - 11/08/07 04:33 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Waterboarding does NOT involve introduction of water into the lungs. It simulates it. The guy is flat out lying.
Quote:
Water boarding as it is currently described involves strapping a person to an inclined board, with his feet raised and his head lowered. The interrogators bind the person's arms and legs so he can't move at all, and they cover his face. In some descriptions, the person is gagged, and some sort of cloth covers his nose and mouth; in others, his face is wrapped in cellophane. The interrogator then repeatedly pours water onto the person's face. Depending on the exact setup, the water may or may not actually get into the person's mouth and nose; but the physical experience of being underneath a wave of water seems to be secondary to the psychological experience. The person's mind believes he is drowning, and his gag reflex kicks in as if he were choking on all that water falling on his face.
http://people.howstuffworks.com/water-boarding.htm
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LucidDream
Hungry BlueFiend



Registered: 05/09/03
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Loc: Planet of the Stupid Peop...
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7612018 - 11/08/07 04:52 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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An internet tough guy calls someone from the SERE school a nancy. Classic. Why don't you describe your career as a SEAL to us, so we can gauge your experience relative to his?
Howstuffworks??? Are you trying to kill me with laughter? Do go on! Tell us more!
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
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Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7612023 - 11/08/07 04:53 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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zappaisgod said: Does it leave a mark? Damage? Nope. Just discomfort. Much like listening to Britney Spears.
What about if they do waterboarding while blasting Britney Spears music?
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afoaf
CEO DBK?



Registered: 11/08/02
Posts: 32,665
Loc: Ripple's Heart
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7612127 - 11/08/07 05:26 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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:sigh:
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FecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.


Registered: 04/25/04
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: zappaisgod]
#7612270 - 11/08/07 06:18 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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So you'd have no problem with us water boarding you for a little fun on a lazy sunday afternoon?
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Silversoul
Rhizome


Registered: 01/01/05
Posts: 23,576
Loc: The Barricades
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: FecalDildo]
#7612282 - 11/08/07 06:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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Quote:
FecalDildo said: So you'd have no problem with us water boarding you for a little fun on a lazy sunday afternoon?
I'll make sure he has full day's worth of Britney Spears songs to listen to.
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FecalDildo
Fat LadiesBingo.


Registered: 04/25/04
Posts: 9,645
Loc: Ass Flavour Pie Factory.
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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: Silversoul]
#7612296 - 11/08/07 06:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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We'll get Britney to do the actual water boarding while she sings him frank zappa covers.
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zappaisgod
horrid asshole


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Re: Tortured man coughed up fake justification for Iraq invasion [Re: FecalDildo]
#7612479 - 11/08/07 07:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago) |
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I didn't say it was fun. It just isn't torture. That guy, whoever he was, lied about what it is. "pint after pint of water to involuntarily fill your lungs". I'm sorry but every description I have ever heard involves the mouth and nose being covered and no water actually being introduced into the lungs. If there is in fact water poured into the lungs I will change my opinion on whether waterboarding is torture. Until then, I disbelieve Mr. Nance. Somebody is lying. Given repeated descriptions by several others, I think Nance is.
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