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Offlinefake estate
didgin it out
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Registered: 10/13/07
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we are not alone
    #7602014 - 11/06/07 10:44 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

last night i was lying in bed trying to fall asleep with tons of racing thoughts running through my head..mainly from the caffeine and pot...but thats a whole nother story

anyways at one point a thought popped into my head..where the hell do these thoughts come from..i dont exactly decide to do something the idea just comes to be and if it seems like a good idea i do it, if not..i wont...you feel as if you have control over the ideas that pop into your head because youve been experiencing them all your life and you have tended to associate these urges/ideas with your consciousness..

this just led me into a realm of deep meditation on fate v free will and other animals having having consciousness very similar to humans

so if "you" dont control the thoughts popping into your head something has to...so im very seriously debating the idea of free will now and beginning to feel as if every movement, every fucking thought anyone has ever had is a part of some grand plan..that work much on the same principles of every system in the universe (and i believe they have reason but are unexplainable..humans just tend to invent ideas to rationalize the way shit works i.e gravity: if we didnt have the idea shit would still fall from the sky would it not?)

wow i got off track alittle bit...but anyways what im getting at is that animals have these thoughts/ideas pop into their head as well...mind you their ideas are much more simplified than ours they can still choose to do things as they wish (or so we think)...this stream of ideas in every living being is a consciousness...where does it come from? god? ...if everyone was completely open minded there would be no god as people would realize that agnosticism is the only logical religious profession for no one being can know all the workings of the universe..

i dont even really know what my point was here...mainly that animals can think on their own but in terms relative to them (to a fish the river is all of the universe and they know nothing else other than the water and what is contained in the water...yet we know of a little bit more that exists due to our technology...but what else exists that we havent created technologies to view?)


--------------------
eat more algae.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: we are not alone [Re: fake estate]
    #7602468 - 11/06/07 12:30 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

.but thats a whole nother story

Well this one wasn't that good so I think we can skip the other one.:ass:


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBooby
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Registered: 09/14/05
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Re: we are not alone [Re: fake estate]
    #7602673 - 11/06/07 01:22 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

On another forum someone mentioned that free-will was 'self-control' or controlling our impulses.


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InvisibleIcelander
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: we are not alone [Re: Booby]
    #7602680 - 11/06/07 01:24 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

I had to pay a lawyer to make my will,:( it was hardly free.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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OfflineBooby
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Re: we are not alone [Re: Icelander]
    #7602692 - 11/06/07 01:27 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Ha,ha.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Registered: 05/07/04
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Re: we are not alone [Re: Icelander]
    #7606184 - 11/07/07 10:08 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

The will is always free, but doing it is another story :grin:


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefake estate
didgin it out
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Registered: 10/13/07
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Re: we are not alone [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7608293 - 11/07/07 06:41 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
The will is always free, but doing it is another story :grin:




it appears the be free to most people..but until the origin of these thoughts can be located who can say with all certainty that one has free reign over their ideas/actions


--------------------
eat more algae.


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OfflineBlueCoyote
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Re: we are not alone [Re: fake estate]
    #7610989 - 11/08/07 12:29 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

One is able to recognize the multitude of possible choices in their relations and probabilities in reality.
That's one first step at least to recheck one's ability to choose.


--------------------
Though lovers be lost love shall not  And death shall have no dominion
......................................................
"Our scientific power has outrun our spiritual power. We have guided missiles and misguided men."Martin Luther King, Jr.
'Acceptance is the absolute key - at that moment you gain freedom and you gain power and you gain courage'


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Offlinefake estate
didgin it out
Male


Registered: 10/13/07
Posts: 264
Loc: NC
Last seen: 8 months, 4 days
Re: we are not alone [Re: BlueCoyote]
    #7611830 - 11/08/07 04:00 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
One is able to recognize the multitude of possible choices in their relations and probabilities in reality.
That's one first step at least to recheck one's ability to choose.




but for every set of infinite options you always choose one..whos to say those are not controlled? you see what i mean--therein lies the problem, it can appear to be free yet be completely controlled..much like the same way the infinite number of working systems are controlled by some unknowable force


--------------------
eat more algae.


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InvisibleIcelander
The Minstrel in the Gallery
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Registered: 03/15/05
Posts: 95,368
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Re: we are not alone [Re: fake estate]
    #7611838 - 11/08/07 04:02 PM (16 years, 2 months ago)

Quote:

fake estate said:
Quote:

BlueCoyote said:
The will is always free, but doing it is another story :grin:




it appears the be free to most people..but until the origin of these thoughts can be located who can say with all certainty that one has free reign over their ideas/actions




IMO  one does not have freedom of thought. We are programmed and like the turtles it's fucking programs all the way down.


--------------------
"Don't believe everything you think". -Anom.

" All that lives was born to die"-Anom.

With much wisdom comes much sorrow,
The more knowledge, the more grief.
Ecclesiastes circa 350 BC


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InvisibleEgo Death
Justadropofwaterinanendlesssea
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Registered: 04/27/03
Posts: 10,447
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Re: we are not alone [Re: fake estate]
    #7614133 - 11/09/07 08:37 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)

My thoughts -

Your body rewards you for doing things necessary to survival. It gives you pleasure for eating food or having sex.

The question is who is it giving pleasure too?
Is that 'person' free will
?


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